I’ve killed my second Fein Turbo II in 3 years. First one fell to its death off a painter’s plank. (those li’l bitty wheels stayed pinned in the plank slots nicely, except for once….) The second seems to have gagged on gyp board dust. Both times the motors were damaged, both times Fein tells me it costs as much to fix them as replace the whole machine.
Other than that fact, I love the Turbo II. It’s powerful, QUIET, and has that nifty tool-triggered power switch.
I saw the review of other tool-actuated vacuums last year. Does anyone have any favorites to replace the Fein? And/or words of wisdom (beyond “respect gravity”) for keeping a happy motor on a fargin’ expensive vacuum?
Replies
Were you using the canister and bags when you killed them with drywall dust? The only high dollar one I have ever had was the Fein turbo ll. After at least 5 Craftsman and three or so Ridgid, it is the only one I truly love. Have been around many Shop-vac ones that rate below the lowest Craftsman IMHO.
I have an Alto Attix 8. It's another high-dollar European product. The Ultimate Garage website sells them (http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/index.php?cPath=25).
With the Attix you have the option to buy a "basic" 8 gallon model without the autostart feature. That's what I've got.
I've been using ordinary ShopVac 8 gallon bags with this vacuum. They are a tight fit around the hose opening, but they do work. Something to consider when comparing costs over the life of the product. I'm not sure if there's an after-market bag at Lowes or HD that would fit the Feins or Festools. If not, you may be in for more sticker shock with the replacement bags.
If I wanted something just for woodworking not for shop clean-up, and I thought I needed autostart, I might prefer a Festool. But the Festool hoses do fit the Attix, so it makes an excellent shop cleaner that's also good for woodworking. You can use it bagless for more capacity in your sawdust collection, if you clean the filter more often. The way the bags wrap around the filter unit, they can't load up to full capacity. With the full-featured models there is an push-button filter cleaner, which would make it more convenient to use bagless. This may be a good way to go if you want maximum sawdust capacity, with minimum bag and filter costs, over the life of the product. That's assuming you don't have a whole-shop dust collection system, or you just want something separate for bench tools.
This has been my favorite for years - easy to drag up a ladder, rolls well, and looks good. Sucks, of course!
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Forrest
It looks like we know where George Lucas got his inspiration for R2D2.
Good one
"Both times the motors were damaged, both times Fein tells me it costs as much to fix them as replace the whole machine."
.............. which is why I never bought a Fein or Festool vac. I'm partial to Shop Vac. I'd wager a dollar or two an upgraded (Cleanstream HEPA filter and the appropiate filter bag) Shop Vac is every bit as effective at collecting dust as a Fein or Festertoolian vac. As quiet? ......no way but if it falls off the staging you won't cry as hard- my three Shop Vacs probably cost less than the Turbo II.
Sir Winston Churchill
Although I would love to have a Fein or Festool vac, I cannot justify the cost of one yet. So I use a Ridgid toolbox "pro pak" vac. it is quieter than Shop-Vacs, Craftsmans, and other Ridgids because the lid over the exhaust acts as a muffler. It has great power...more than comparable sized competitors. I also enjoy the portability (works great up on scaffolding), the way that all the attachments AND hose conveniently store in it, the rectillenear shape of it that allows me to stack toolboxes on it in the van, and finally I love the price...$90.
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It does not however have a tool plug. Ridgid use to make a good small vac with a tool plug but all of a sudden took the tool plug off that model and now don't offer it on any models that I know of, maybe there were some legal issues. Mine also does not accept bags...just has a round pleated paper filter. But I have used it with my PC DW sander and it worked fine.
All in all, I highly recommend the Ridgid Pro Pak if not as your only shop vac then at least just as a more portable/backup/expendable shop vacuum.
GK
Yeah, I have a little DeWalt that's a lot like that one, only it doesn't pack up quite as nice and it can run off of battery (if I had a DW battery). Paid $99 for it, IIRC.I've found it to be very handy for my DIY uses, and with my work trips to Rushford and Biloxi.I wouldn't want to use it for heavy-duty sanding dust collection, though, even though it does have a HEPA filter -- just too little capacity.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
I used to use a 5 gallon Shop-vac, with HEPA bags. That was replaced, for reasons of space and portability, with the DeWalt '2 gallon" vacuum. For my purposes - small clean-ups - it works just fine. If anything, I wish the DeWalt was a mite smaller, and had a brush attachment.
Naturally, my needs are different from someone who wants to police a jobsite, or collect chips from bench tools. I'd also need something else for picking up wet stuff.
Whatever the vacuum, and it's uses, though .... here are the things I value:
1) QUIET. I don't want to have folks think I've got a jet flying around in the room.
2) Dust collected stays collected. I don't want it coming out the exhaust port. Nor do I want to see the vacuum rendered useless because I -gasp- used it to pick up drywall dust.
3) Transport. I ought to be able to move it about, even over rough ground and dirty / cluttered sites. If I need to lift it into the truck, carry it up a ladder, wrestle it into an attic - I need something to hold on to, maybe even something to tie it in place. It ought not tip over the moment I tug on the hose.
4) Ease of emptying. This generally means a bag that can be easily attached, and just as easily removed. Preferably without getting the contents in my face, or all over the floor. For wet vacs, this means both a drain fitting, and a lack of corners inside the tank to catch crud. It's also silly to put a 1/4" "drain" on something that is sure to have solids in it that will immediately plug the drain.
5) Storage. That is, a place for the cord, hoses, and attachments to go.
One problem with the little DeWalt I have is that the exhaust comes out horizontal, fairly close to the ground. This stirs up dust if there's any dust to stir up, even with the HEPA filter.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
I haven't noticed that issue.
I said I used it - not that it was perfect. It certainly serves my needs better than anything else available - or I'd use something else.
Yeah, it's a good vac -- just that little annoyance, and one or two others (like the whine in any nearby radio when you turn the thing OFF).
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
I have that unit or more accurately the predecessor garage vac. Same basic motor, and size of container, and tools. But it does not have the self storage for the tools or flat top.I like it a lot.But it only has available a "fine" filter. The bigger ones have a "regular" one and a Hepa.And If find that the filter clogs too quickly when cleaning up DW dust.Shop vac has a similar sized unit (4-5 "hp" and 4-5 gal). And there are bags for it. But it, but it is not self storing or have the flat top..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
That vacumn does accept bags. I have one and bought the bags at home depot. I initially complained to rigid that they didn't have a plain paper filter. I found the hepa filter clogged up too fast and was hard to clean. Rigid told me to try it with the bags. What a difference. The filter is nice and clean and the bag lasts long enough for most of my small jobs.
I have a Wap Turbo. The old yellow and black model. I bought it in '92. Wap, Alto, Nilfisk, and Attix are all related, if not identical.
It's starting to get a little loud. By that I mean it's now about as loud as a Fein or a Festool. I've been told to just use it until it quits -- too expensive to repair.
It's been a great vacuum, powerful enough to use with 25-35' of hose. I almost always used bags, which can cost up to $10 apiece, but they get billed out to the job, and customers are happy to pay for the reduced dust. I once sanded a woman's kitchen ceiling while she was making lunch.
With a bag in it, you can sand drywall all day, and the filter will still be bright orange.
I got a bunch of dust into the motor once, when sanding cured, but not fully-dried Durabond. When I used the vacuum the next day, the glue holding the seam had softened, and opened up.
That was 10 years ago, though, and the motor is only now starting to act up.
Given the price of the Wap, and the handy size of the Fein, I'm considering downgrading to the Fein when the Wap quits. I won't be able to clean the gutters with it, though, it's just too small.
AitchKay
If you were not using it with the pleated filter and bag, then it might just be your own fault.The bags are not expensive - I've found 3 packs for $8.99 from Amazon at times.The bags for my Festool are closer to $6 each.I've used my Turbo II for close to 10 years now and no problems yet.The only time I use the chessy cloth filter "shroud" is when I'm only picking up shopvac type stuff - wood chips, floor dirt... When doing drywall - always the paper bag with the pleated filter.The Feins are about 58 decibel - all the cheapo Ridgid and Shopvac products are closer to 85-90 decibels.The pleasure of having a quiet vac that works very well is worth the cost.And - unlike the Porter Cable or Bosch tool activated vacs - the Fein's outlet is rated for over 15amps I think - the Bosch and Porter Cable are limited to closer to 6-8amps.If you're buying soon - Fein has just come out with a new version of the Turbos - take a look, looks like a nicer design.JTJT
And - unlike the Porter Cable or Bosch tool activated vacs - the Fein's outlet is rated for over 15amps I think - the Bosch and Porter Cable are limited to closer to 6-8amps.
Not sure how much load I'd trust putting on that, though. I measured the free-running current draw on my Turbo III at 11amps, IIRC, and I believe it dropped to 6A with hose plugged.
That only leaves 9A available on a 20A circuit, and many 110 circuits are going to be limited to 15A, so I would be careful putting anything more than 4-5A feeding from the vac (or the circuit that feeds it).
Don
I use my Fein Turbo II frequently with it attached to the dust port of my chop saw, on both 15 and 20 amp circuits. I've rarely had a problem with it tripping a breaker, and that's usually when I have something else plugged into the same circuit, and everything starts at the same time.
The tool activated circuit is a big reason why I bought it. That, and the quietness.One of the vacs I owned before the Fein was a Wap, with similar circuitry. But it was rated too low to be able to use my chop saw with it.
I've thought about getting the Turbo III, because sometime the smaller hose on the II gets clogged pretty easily from debris when I'm vacuuming after demolition. How do you like it?
I've really liked the Turbo III, but I don't think it's much different than the II except it holds more volume. The II would be easier to move around.
I'm just a DIY'er who mostly uses it to clean up dirt & sawdust. Normally I use the smaller diameter, longer hose I got from Amazon as part of a kit, as Fein doesn't give much in the way of accessories.
I did put the shorter, larger diameter (2-1/2" ??) hose on when I wanted to use it as a dust collector on my shaper, when I was rabbetting the shiplap siding for my garage. Even the III fills up fairly quickly when used that way. I'm planning on making a cyclone arrangement like this http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm to be able to use a separate collecting drum.
It also worked well as a wet vac a year ago when we had some unusual spring weather which caused us to get a wet basement. I kept it running nonstop for about 4 hours to stay ahead of the water coming in. My dad came over with his 16 gallon Craftsman, which worked fine but is incredibly loud. Definitely had to wear ear protection with that going.
Don
Shep:You can buy the 2 1/4" hose and use it on the Turbo II.Mike
Actually, I do have the 2-1/4" hose for the Turbo II.
But I usually forget to bring it when I need it. <G>
FEIN turbo III all the way.Quieter than any household or shop vac I've had or heardCan run table or chop saw through the auto on/off no problem2" hose has room for chips from planer et alDrain tap on bottom for water collection/drainSelf contained bags up to HEPA rating available, I can only see drywall dust harming motor if containment bags not used.Great accessory holder available from Duluth Trading, fits like a glove and holds everythingDid I mention it was quiet, and minimal to no 'blowby'Hasn't missed a beat for me in over 5 years
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
gd
2" hose has room for chips from planer et al Extra $50
Self contained bags up to HEPA rating available, I can only see drywall dust harming motor if containment bags not used. Everybody charges extra for HEPA
Great accessory holder available from Duluth Trading, fits like a glove and holds everything More Extra $$$
Did I mention it was quiet, and minimal to no 'blowby' They are quiet
Hasn't missed a beat for me in over 5 years Good point
Let's not confuse the issue with facts! LOL
Thanks for the input
I don't want to sound cheap, but the list of tool wants is as long as my arm. LOL And I'll probably never get to the end of it. Good HVLP sprayer, laser, scaffolding, aluminum pump jacks, extra finish nailers ect.
Rich
Not to nit pick but my Fein III came with the 2" hose.As for the rest, anything worth doing (or buying) is worth doing (or buying) well. As someone here states : GOOD - FAST - CHEAP
PICK ANY TWOLet's not confuse the issue with facts!
gd
I was looking at the 9 gal Fien (II ???) and it had a 16' 1.25 hose.
I thought that would be sweet in tight quarters but not good for large chips or running the planer. Big chunks of plaster would also be a problem.
As for the rest, anything worth doing (or buying) is worth doing (or buying) well.
Hard to argue with that.
Rich
All
I have been sitting on this thread for a while and I am confused.
We are using a Sears 16 gal vac right now. I have killed many of them.
I want to get the 9 gal Fien, but $400, no attachment except a hose.
Then buy attachements $100, and 2" hose another $50 and still nowhere to store them on the vac.
I am riding the fence on this one and wish there was a cheaper alternative that was still a good vac for all round use.
The 16 gal Sears is too big, too loud, and the lid drops litter when you move it and it is not under pressure. But it is powerful and cheap.
EXACTLY the same sentiments as I have. I still want the Fein 3...they even changed the wheel system i think. I've wanted one for years and could kick myself in the head for buying another Sears a few years ago.
I'd been using the Ridgid my customer owns...that he just bought and it is a little quieter then the Sears but I think not quite as strong and the wheels on it totally suck imo. I'm not impressed with it. It's just OK imo.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
andy
I knew if we looked long enough we would have something in common. LOL
How you doing Andy. Greeting from Iowa.
Rich
Well we have Excel in common...lol. We both love it...but i still use my yellow legal pad...but I do still mess around with Excel...oy.
Here's a job I could really use it for I'm pretty certain I'm getting...the photos are of the house now and the PDFattachement is the set of drawings I'm bidding on.
I actually do have a deposit from them to work on the proposal so....
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http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
andy
you were talking about getting this job 6 months ago. 900K house that will need 500K in improvements, if I remeber right.
That would sell here for about 200-300K if it didn't need any improvements and it had a nice lot. LOL
Rich
I know...it's nuts....even in their hood and they paid $900,000 for the house last year.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
where'd the PDF attachment go? I'll try again
Can't figure out how to post the pdf...says file is too big...oh well
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Hmmmmm...will this work
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http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Do you use HEPA filters and bags appropriate for drywall dust?
I hadn't been using anything except the big cloth filter bucket that came with the Turbo II. I was not aware of any other required systems until I started looking into replacing this one. When I sand drywall I have been using one of those vacu-bongs (the five gallon bucket & lid w/two holes, catches the dust in water). It worked well on several occasions until the last one. After I cooked the motor, I found out that the sander hose was completely clogged with dust, so my guess is the motor overheated due to no air flow, rather than filling with ####.
I am seeing lots of recommendations for HEPA filters, and also see recommendations for using a primary paper bag filter. How does that work with the Fein? Replace the cloth filter with paper at the inlet & put the secondary filter over the motor housing?
Otherwise, my primary use is collecting dust off of smaller power tools, and cleaning the shop, cat box, kid's diapers, whatever catches my fancy.... I stripped the paint off my wood siding, and my neighbors enjoyed watching me vacuum the lawn & flower beds for stray paint chips at the end of the day.
I love the Turbo II. Except for the repair cost, I wouldn't hesitate to get another.
I have the same on McDesign has, and really like it.
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true. [James Cabell]
Fein makes two pleated filters for them - a Hepa and a 3mil.They require the use of what Fein calls a "filter adapter" - it's just the little end cap and screw really.With the Fein paper bag and a pleated filter - no need for the water bong in-between.I wonder if the water bong setup made the motor work harder than it should also?Either way, the cloth filter bag it came with is not designed for drywall use.Knock on wood - my Fein's been going for many years...Hey - if you throw yours out - keep the outlet/switch assembly - I'd bet someone could use it for a repair part.JT
Funny, I kept the first one to service the second. When the switches on the second started to go fritzy I took apart the first one for a dry run on fixing the second.
Now I've got two corpses. On the upside, if I replace with another Fein, now I've got two spare filter bags. And 8 casters, if any of the new ones get a flat.
My wife has no appreciation of my museum of defunct power tools.
Do you think a trade school or high school shop class might be able to make use of the deceased for rehab projects?
What Julian said! The hooka bucket should not hurt the fein, the issue is if it does not have enough water. I would still use the required "filter adapter", pleated filter, and drywall bag. Like JT said really do not need the water bucket. You will toast it using the felt bag for dw dust. The two systems felt vs bag and pleat are mutually exclusive. Combine them and you overload motor.
Every customer who has seen the Fein in use were apppreciative and complimentary as to dust and sound. I also have that box style Ridgid and use it often. I also have one of the Craftsman auto switches that I have used with it. Usually sanding or cutting with EZ guide. But normally use the Fein which resides in the van.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Im assuming the Fein uses pattened technology. Why is it that no other company has been able to produce a vac as quiet as the Fein.
As I said, my Wap is wearing out, and is starting to get noisy -- now it's about as noisy as the Fein. Still tolerable, though.AitchKay
For those that are buying the vac for the autostart function, check out sears for an outlet that will autostart any vac 19.95 and works great.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00924031000P?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00924031000
Whatever you do, get a good one:
I have watched many people using Sears vacs with a column of dust shooting out the top.
I have always considered most shop vacs to be more closely related to leaf blowers than to actual vacuum cleaners.
There is simply too much blow-by with most vacs (is any OK?), so even with an unpunctured filter, I don’t trust them.
Adding a HEPA filter might mean that the air that passes through the filter is clean, but that doesn’t mean that the air coming out of the exhaust is clean.
You need to be able to trust the SYSTEM, not just the filter itself. So if you want high-quality air coming out of your vac, get a high-quality vac.
And if you use your vac for remodeling, regularly test around the outlet for lead.
AitchKay
See what's recommended by this cat:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7445896.stm
Although I got sick of cheapo ShopVac products from the big box, I have not yet exhausted the Rigid line.
And with a HEPA filter in the less-expensive models, I can vacuum drywall dust and have it stay inside the vac. (Note that, depending on the model of vac, the HEPA filter might come close to equal the price of the vac!)
And I can buy a handful of the less expensive ones for the same price as a super-vac brand.
All
I have been sitting on this thread for a while and I am confused.
We are using a Sears 16 gal vac right now. I have killed many of them.
I want to get the 9 gal Fien, but $400, no attachment except a hose.
Then buy attachements $100, and 2" hose another $50 and still nowhere to store them on the vac.
I am riding the fence on this one and wish there was a cheaper alternative that was still a good vac for all round use.
The 16 gal Sears is too big, too loud, and the lid drops litter when you move it and it is not under pressure. But it is powerful and cheap.
Thanks for the help.
Rich
My Wap is still going, and I bought it around 1990. Probably cheaper than the Sears, in the long run.And now I'm spoiled -- the Fein and Festo vacs are sooo noisy!AitchKay
AKay
I have read about them in this thread but I have never seen one. I'll look at Amazon.
Rich
I bought a Dayton, used at a yard sale, for $35. It would be hooked up running for hours at a time on the outfeed of some sander or lathe...never quits. The Sears POSs have a bushing instead of a bearing holding the armature. It seizes in no time under continuous use or dusty conditions. I was able to take all three back and get my money refunded.
The Fein is one of those WTF! tools (and there are many). It's got great internal components but lacks on some bells and whistles.
The two problems as you pointed out are the lack of onboard tool storage and the stupid little wheels. A personal gripe is also the generally round shape of the older version. I think vacs should be fairly square on all sides so they fit in my van or workshop nicely and I can stack on and around them. My little Ridgid toolbox vac is perfect in that sense, I even use it as a step stool.The Wap/Altos are also nice but still lack sensible storage. They are the quietest vacs on the market but only by about 2dB. They also have a very nice filter cleaning option.Festool has the nicest design overall and is a must if you are thinking about getting on the Festool bandwagon. Porter Cables are a good (cheaper) option that usually rates somewhere between Feins and ShopVacs. Nice design, a little less powerful and slightly louder.DC
Dream
Thanks for the thoughtful input.
The integrated switch on the Fien (turn on tool and vac starts) is a very nice feature.
I have rented the PC drywall sander and vac and I was very pleased with the unit and it's performance.
HD is the only place I see the Ridgid tools and I don't go to HD very often. I kind of like to touch the tool I buy unless I am familiar with it.
Again thanks
Rich
If buying one of the vacs mentioned, check the amperage range on the tool plug - some, like the bosch and the Porter Cable are limited to about 7-8 amps.I can run my Fein tool-activated from a 15amp router or tablesaw.Julian
Not to hijack this thread but a real handy auto switch to have would be one where the tool sent a signal to a separate switch plugged into an outlet from a different circuit. That way both the too and the vac could use the full current the outlet would provide. Has anyone ever made one of those?
You mean something like this?http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=63013cat=1,42401&ap=1-t
fingers
I just built my own with a couple of parts from the hardware store for my planer.
I ran a power cord to a switch, then to a standard duplex outlet, then I plug the vac and the planer into the outlet with is on the side of the planer stand.
Not to hijack this thread
It's still legal and I don't mind.
Rich
Edited 6/4/2009 6:37 pm ET by cargin
I tried rigging a two-circuit switch awhile back with a relay from a friend, but could only get it to half work. Must have been the wrong type of relay? Worked on some tools, but not others. Then I saw they made commercial versions and lost motivation to figure it out.
Now I've simply wired a vacuum circuit with three-way switches near the tools where I use it most frequently. Doesn't work outside the shop too well, but the vac's too big and clumsy to get moved often. The vac stays parked under a workbench out of the way. I have a separate two gallon vac that travels.
I also rigged up a five-gallon bucket similar to the 'vacu-bong' referenced earlier - air goes in near the bottom, then out through a 90 deg elbow higher up, but no water. This intercepts any small chunks of wood or cutoffs before they get to the vac. Before I set it up I had trouble with the vac bags tearing next to the opening.
-Nate
Julian
Good point.
We like to hook a vac up to a planer.
Our job site DeWalt TS has a 2" port.
Router tables and so forth.
Rich