I was glancing at the help-wanted ads in the local fishwrap and I noticed a lot of them didn’t include a phone number or even an address. All they say is “Fax resume to xxx-xxx-xxxx.
It would seem that if you were desperate enough to place a help wanted ad — or any ad — in the paper, you would like to get responses. But how many unemployed workers have fax machines [with their dedicated phone lines]?
If the idea is to jsut have a sheet of paper to quickly scan and toss, then an e-mail message would be even cheaper to delete. Are these geezers trying to limit their field of prospects only to disgruntled office employees who have access to their bosses’ fax machines?
Anyway, is there some way to determine who is placing these ads?
~Peter
Insult the French — pronounce their language the way it’s spelt.
Replies
Well you don't need a dedicated phone line and a fax machine.
With a computer and modem that is all that you need and a little software. Using there is a copy preloaded. If not you can get some low cost shareware or freeware.
You can try to use one of the online reverse phone directories, but I suspect that it won't show anything.
Edited 3/22/2003 8:15:10 PM ET by Bill Hartmann
It is a very valid time management tool. If I am a one man office, there are times that I want to get something done and don't answer the phone. If I placed an ad like that, it is giving you a very good opportunity to get through to make an impression on me so i can revieew it when I am mentally prepared to focus on that particular thing instead of half listening on the phone. It also gives me a chance to fairly evealuate all applicants at one time by comparing things in writing. There will be some that I obviously do not want to waste time interviewing.
A personel manager sets the manner in which an applicant is to make contact for a job. Use a different method and you have signalled that you are one who cannot read and follow instructions. For some careers, that is an important skill.
On the other hand, if the job is in sales and you find a way to know who is the one to make hiring decisions and a way to make direct contact with him/her, then you have shown initiative and drive, essential skills for the job.
You are right that some will be tossed into the trash. If you write a resume' with the same venting/complaining attitude that you wrote the post, yours would be one! I look for a positive attitude.
Other places have a regular turnover of labour and don't need someone now but want to have a list of people interested in the jobs to cal on when the time comes. Some jobs are seasonal. Maybe the owner/hiring manager is out of town on vacation and wants to have a pile of contacts to go with as soon as he gets back in town.
Unemployed workers with fax machines?
What makes you think these ads are trying to hire unemployed people? Over two thirds of the folks hired into positions are already working at a job when they get hired into another one. It is also a valid baseline for salary negotiations. "Well, I am making $xx dollars now buit I'm looking for something better. What can you offer?"
The unemployed more often has a "anyting you can pay me" negotiating stance.
Fax machines are wonderfully effiecient time management tools.
Excellence is its own reward!
"who cannot read and follow instructions" and "you have shown initiative and drive" So which is it? I'm not good at playing psychological games.
As far as faxes being a "wonderfully effiecient time management tools", I was just pointing out that you can end up with the same printed out sheets of paper with e-mail -- if that's what you want. Fax, I feel, is rather out-dated. It ties up a second phone line. It can't do color. Quality is poor and you can't electronically manipulate it [i.e. re=arrange all the data into tables or into consistant formats]. I don't have the statistics, but I have a hunch that computers [hence, e-mail] are much more prevalent than fax machines. Therefore, you will have a larger, more varied field to select from.
Your comment about not hiring the unemployed is probably valid. However, as an employer, that means that you are hiring someone who is for sale to the highest bidder [and who uses your fax machine behind your back to do so]. But that's your decision.
~Peter
On second thought, hiring someone who is already working for somebody else is probably a safe idea. They are already proven steady performers. But then -- especially in this current economy -- there are perfectly good reasons why perfectly good people are unemployed. Perhaps the best timing is when a worker realizes that the job is nearing completion and the scuttlebutt is nothing else is in the offing so then he starts trying to line up the next job. "Hey boss, can I use your fax machine?"
~Peter
View ImageGo Jaybirds
I think you missed about half of what I had to say. The quotes you responded to were out of context. Go back and read me again..
Excellence is its own reward!
Dear Piffy Baby,
I've read your post several times. I didn't mean to take your quotes out of context but, in a thread, I think it's repetative to repeat entire paragraphs of what has already been said. I guess you are saying that some people want you to follow instructions to the letter and that others can perceive that if a person is innovative enough to find an alternative path, that person would be good to hire. The problem is that I have no way of knowing what [who] I am dealing with. My hunch is that this fella is somewhat behind the times. He doesn't want to be deluged with phone calls all day from every Jefferson, Nixon and Truman.
Perhaps I could state this another way--
If you are going to place a help-wanted ad in the paper, you should include an e-mail address to respond to. You could include a phone number with the proviso that calls will only be accepted between 7 and 9 am. You could have a P.O. Box. But, in the construction field, how many illegal aliens have a fax machine?
~Peter
" It can't do color. Quality is poor and you can't electronically manipulate it [i.e. re=arrange all the data into tables or into consistant formats]."
First an employer DOES NOT WANT COLOR or anyother fancy formating. In fact if I was accepting resumes by email I would immediately delete any that where not plain text, unless I had specified some other format. I don't want to go through a mix of html, Word doc's of version 3, 5, 2002, Wordperfect, RTF, and pdf, and maybe a couple of others.
And even if they wanted put all of the data into a tables it would be much easier to retype it. Even if the email came in as plain text one would have the name as John Doe and the next Doe, John. The phone number might 800-555-1212, (800)555-1212, 1-800-555-1212, and several other formats. And then get down to the work history and that might have a dozen different formats.
The only way that email would be practical for anykind of data collection would be to have the applicant send for a request for a form and have an autoresponder to send that form and then the person supply the data line by line as specified in the form.
"I have a hunch that computers [hence, e-mail] are much more prevalent than fax machines."
As I said if you have a computer you can have fax. In fact with a service like this you could even send the FAX from the email at the liberary. http://www.washington.edu/computing/email/email2fax.html
" I was just pointing out that you can end up with the same printed out sheets of paper with e-mail -- if that's what you want."
Yes, but email is usually not formated for 8 1/2 x11 and you don't know what size font that the receiver will be using to print out. There is a good chance that it will end up with chopped up line and multiple pages.
With fax, even if you generate on the computer it is formated for the page so that what is printed out is what you intended.
If an employeer is expecting to get more just a few resumes what he wants is a one page coversheet with no more than 3 SHORT paragrpahs and a single page resume. He will spend about 10 seconds on each one until he get it down to just a couple.
Mr. Hartmann,
Thank you for the very informative reply. The color thing was a general reference to the superiority of e-mail over a fax transmission. The text of the resume could be sent as an attachment. There is a choice between rich text format and plain text.
Uncle Dunc is right about employers not giving an address to respond to. I am imagining either someone who is so far behind the times that he/she does not have a computer [hence no word processing, spreadsheet, access to Breaktime, CAD capability, accounting programs etc.] Or they consider having a fax machine to be a prerequisite for employment.
~Peter
View ImageGo Nightjars or is it Goatsuckers?
There's two different issues here, the fax only response and the anonymity. I'm with Bill and Piffin on the fax issue. Even if there weren't fax software available, copy shops have fax machines. On the anonymous ads, I just don't respond. I think publishing a help wanted ad without identifying the employer is a scumbag trick, and who wants to work for a scumbag?
everyone has a fax machine....
it's called Kinko's
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
sorry,
but I can't get on board with one of the posters assertions ----that prospective employers who don't include their address in "help wanted " ads are scumbags.
Many of us in this business run operations that have the "office" in our homes ,while ALL production takes place elsewhere.Personally----I DO NOTwant hordes of un-employed descending upon my humble abode.
when I run a help wanted ad it simply lists my business phone number. Anyone looking for work who responds to that ad can call----and if ,by chance ,I don't answer the phone personally---they will get the same answering machine message my customers do. That answering machine message clearly identifies my company name.A single ad can draw over 100 people looking for work----and a few of them will STILL show up at my home wanting to fill out applications.
when I run a help wanted ad----it is for MY benefit, not the prospective employees.If we can arrive at a mutually agreeable arrangement---that's great,----but we still have to understand who is in charge here.
If you don't want to respond to the ad---then don't respond.Plenty of other well qualified applicants WILL respond.
>> but I can't get on board with one of the posters assertions ---- that prospective
>> employers who don't include their address in "help wanted " ads are scumbags.
That's not what I said. I said employers who don't include the company name are scumbags. And I'm perfectly happy to make an exception for companies like yours that provide a phone number that I can call and find out who the company is. The companies that want me to send a resume to a post office box or a blind box at the newspaper are hiding something, probably something really awful.
Personally, I'd rather deal with 100 resumes than 100 phone calls, but I'm not running your business, a circumstance which greatly benefits both of us. :)
Uncle Dunc,
finding roofers with a phone, transportation and a valid drivers license is hard enough. finding roofers with a RESUME ,LOL. well that would be impossible!
you are confusing hiring practices in your industry---with what is standard in OUR industry.
Yeah, I'm operating out of ignorance again. I meant 'resume' to stand for any kind of written application or written response to an ad. Whether you call it a resume or something else, it seems like getting some indication of experience in written form could save you some time. Unless you hire a lot of inexperienced people. In that case you'd just about have to talk to each applicant before you could decide anything.
I would think that it would be easy to find one with a resume. While they might not have a copy on them. I would think that it would be easy to get a copy at the local police station <G>.
Bill, thats pretty funny. LOL. It would be even funnier if we both didn't know how true that often is.
We hired a young man this spring( age 24) who is currently making $15/hour with us.The young man had NEVER filled out a w-4 form for any previous employer----we had to show him how to fill it out( but he has been working in this and related trades for 6 years).To actually be covered by Workers Comp,etc., is un-imaginable to him.On his first day,we started at 8:00 and finished by 1:30-2:00. he couldn't believe it when I told him to mark down on his time card 8:00-4:00,8hours.He still can't believe it when he takes 1/2 hour for lunch and gets paid for it. He almost cried when I told him if he gave me a copy of his monthly cel phone statement ,that I would re-imburse him for his months service cost.
I read a newspaper account of a guy who was arrested because he responded to one of those vague ads. It was placed by a private eye who had a tip the guy was in "X" city and new that he was skilled in "X" trade.
Just a little note of caution for all of you who are wanted by the law! {G}
It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
I can see it now:
Phillip Marlow is sitting in his dingy office, his glazed eyes straining to peer through the stained windows which haven't been washed since the last rainfall. Instinctively, his right hand reaches down to the bottom gin drawer and fetches the bottle of thinking booze. He pours a shot and simultaneously swigs it while returning it to its bourdoire so as not to clue in a seldomly encountered customer as to his inspiration and fortification.
His brain ignites one of those watt-to-lumen converters in a cartoon cloud and his tremmoring hand reaches towards the desk phone teetering precariously on the edge of his time worn southern yellow pine desk. His index finger rotates the dial in a sequence of numbers which connects him to the classified ad department of the local rag.
"I would like to place a help wanted ad", his melodious voice oozes out. The hazel blonde operator smiles sweetly and asks for the words.
Carpenter Wanted Must be 5' 8" tall with 10 1/2 yrs. exp. installing brick molding in upscale neighborhoods. Must have tip of left hand middle finger missing for obvious reasons. Fax resume to: 619-233-5174.
Cobwebs grow between his shiny sleeve and his nile green desk blotter as he endlessly awaits the phone to chime.
End of Story
~Peter
ROTFLMAO!
And, of course, there was a dame behind it all. There's always a dame behind it all.....It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
No way would I respond to a bind ad like that not knowing who I'm faxing the info to.
Twice in the past I've had people tell my current employer that I was looking for a job. Both times resulted in rather unpleasant experiences. The 2nd time I got canned immediately.
And I know of one company that got a resume from one of their own employees through a blind ad like that. (They used an off-site fax number so their employees wouldn't know they were looking for replacement people)
There are 2 things that come to mind that I would consider doing. First would be to get on the internet and do a reverse phone search and see who the phone number belonged to.
If that didn't work, you could look in the yellow pages and see if any of the companies there used that fax number. Then I'd contact the company directly and ask if they were looking for help.
But no way would I give out info on who I was without knowing who was getting it.
On the other hand - I wonder what they'd think if you faxed in a resume without your name on it? Tell them to send an email to a hotmail.com email address so they didn't know who you were. I wonder if they'd respond?
No woman needs intercourse-few women escape it. [Andrea Dworkin]