I am a self admitted wuss when it comes to working on roofs, etc. Fortunately my day job involves both my feet being on the ground! Any advice from the pros on effective ways to overcome the fear? All advice/suggestions much appreciated. Thanks in advance. ktkamm
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Replies
Practice. And it really helps to take a safety course or get trained by someone who has been doing it for a while, to learn safe ways to get around up high. But mostly practice.
Practice. Be sure of where you are. Don't put yourself in a risky position.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Go bungee jumping. It cured me instantly.
Stay off of high spots!
I hate snakes and I'm not trying to overcome that.
Somethings you just shouldnt do - especially if your not comfortable doing them.
Doug
well said!
Lots of Jack Daniels- then your afraid of nothin.
Peer pressure worked for me.
'Course I was only about 18 at the time.
Doubt I'd feel the need to prove my manhood by walking the wall plates these days.
But back then, it pretty much meant I'd have a job the next day.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I was afraid of heights and went on to become as stupid a roofer as they ever come!
;)
Seriously, I would sweat, get the shakes, freeze up ....
I used to have bad nightmares about high places when I was a teen. The only time I could handle dreaming about being high was when I was in the plane with Sky King's Niece, Penny.
That is not just a funny line - keeping your mind off the height helps a lot. I counted all the extramoney I was making more than my buddy the tile setter or the other buddy the carpenter's helper...
I also have a mental makeup that is too darn stubborn to let me quit before I lick a problem. It is easier to handle a bull by the horns than to try controling him by the tail, so I tackle things head on. A lot of this is in attitude. If I am going to ride a roller coaster, It needs to be in the front seat. That way I can step on the go pedal and pretend I am driving instead of just being hauled to hell at top speed.
So make up yopur mind that you can't be beat by fear or heights or ...
Oh, and don't look down
I conquered this thing for twenty years, but then I had a pretty scary fall, which led to some hairy dreams. I would dream of falling and my body would thrash andmy arm reach out to grab anything to keep me from falling. Too often it was my wife and she didn't care too much to be woken up that way, not for the bruises she was getting on her handles.
So a few doses of Ativan got meover that hump.
But I still can't watch some of those thriller movies on TV without getting vertigo and queasy.
what was the question?
Oh yeah, don't look down, keep your mind on something pleasent, and be careful
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I have a fear of widths.
Caused me to find a new girlfriend, her butt needed it's own zipcode.
Edited 4/25/2007 9:45 pm ET by sledgehammer
Piffin said:"The only time I could handle dreaming about being high was when I was in the plane with Sky King's Niece, Penny."My morning coffee came outta my nose on that one. Geess, that really dates you, I bet most of the people on this board never watched Sky King. .View Image
It just got worse, I'm googling images of Penny. I better go to work now.....Thanx Piffin.....View Image
where are the links so we can look too?Whatever happened to her?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
<Sky King and Penny>
I've only heard of them in the Jimmy Buffet song Pencil-Thin Mustache. Always wondered about that line - now I know!
Forrest - learning from my elders
Which one, Beryl Vaughn or Gloria Winters?
How about a pic., or a link to one......
Watch Sky King, he!!, I'm so old I listened to him on the radio...bet it is still better than not getting older!!!
I remember the Lone Ranger on radio, but not Sky King.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Ah the kids now days don't know what they missed. Rushing home after school to hear 15 minutes of Sargent Preston, Sky King, The Lone Ranger, Tom Mix, Cisco Kid (never really understood that program but listened anyway) through the static. We lived 80 miles from the stations in Portland, OR, and were in the mountains, so the signal was mostly static and faded in and out (always at the crucial time). I think they ran two 15 minute serials each afternoon and rotated through various programs during the week. I can't remember if the Green Lantern was an afternoon or an evening program... Didn't get television in my small town until I was away to college, so didn't get to watch the TV versions...Piffin - For Sky King, you might try (although I couldn't get it to work on my machine):
http://members.cox.net/skykingtv/skyradio.html
Ah, Penny was my first love!
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
A friend of mine felt that fear of falling was keeping him from being a better rock climber. He got a short length of rope, tied one end to his harness, the other to the railing of his balcony, and kept jumping until he got used to it.
Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.
I don't know how to help, but I wonder if anyone else out there is okay while working, but really freaks out about the day's heights just before falling asleep?
Not sure why that happens - maybe because I'm concentrating while I'm working?
Forrest
Yes!When faling asleep, we experience an altered state of being where toworld doesn't touch and hold us the same way.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Get them all the time. Scary as hell. Just as I'm dozing.
Topped only by the recent sensation of crashing my truck into the rear of a stopped vehicle.
Let go of the steering wheel just in time to wake up.
Lay there shaking a good 15 minutes.
First time I've ever had that one. Hope its the last.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Yesterday I was standing on a wall, trying to tie to walls together and signal the crain at the same time. One of the guys pushed the wall I was stnding on to line it up with the "free" wall. The brace broke lose and I was suddenly standing on a "free" wall.
I instantly grabbed on to the crain line and had them brace things off, I didn't get scared or freak, though I did yell at him for his stupidity when I got down.
Last night, just as I was dozing off. I woke because I landed from a fall. make any sense to you, ever get that feeling? It was new to me.
I love heights, respect them but love them. The higher I am the less people to bother me, especially if I leave the phone on the ground.
jeremyThe bad news is you've done exactly the right things to be exactly where you are today.
"IdahoDon 1/31/07"
I don't like heights, but I LOVE adrenaline!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i have no fear of heights whatsoever kinda like those Mohawk Indians, But i shake if i get a spider on me in panic, I do my best to stay away from spiders . Just try and stay away if you can and dont look down and ponder it, when i first started framing i ran the plates, at first i was not good at it so i layed some plates on the floor and walked back and forth and skipped and hopped till my mind knew i could do it, if i nailed rafter ends i just thought about my nailing nothing else
I have a very well developed fear of being anything over the height of a small ladder. There are two things that helped me more than any others.
If at all interesting or at least bearable, sign up for an indoor rock climbing class. You will learn a few key knots and basics of working with ropes up high in addition to the valuable time spent off the ground.
Then I picked up a basic rope/harness set up. I've since added a wide variety of load rated hardware, various length of webbing loops to make rigging a solid anchor easier and more secure, and a few short ropes. In dicey situations working while tied off takes away the majority of the anxiety and increases my productivity a great deal.
Probably the most used rope is a 30' shorty, used while working on scaffolding, or sometimes a tall ladder if an anchor is available. It's easy to move around with, compact and comforting when the work is a little off kilter.
Often finding good anchors is the most significant hinderance to using a hardness. During construction I'll leave webbing loops around ridge beams, strategically located posts or even studs. The webbing is thin enough that framing can go right over it and the exposed portions are simply cut off when no longer needed.
For making an anchor when none exists, purpose built roof brackets are available that utilize a number of nails and/or structural screws so it's possible to attach one almost anywhere.
Other than that, simply take it easy when up high until you get aclimated. The longer you're up there the easier it will be.
Cheers
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
"Often finding good anchors is the most significant hinderance to using a hardness."Do you see anything erotic in that statement?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
*chuckle*
View Image
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I have never been comfortable on TJIs. I can fly an airplane and be up high but I do not like things that feel flimsy under my feet. I got a lot worse when I nearly fell off of a building for the first time. Years ago my supervisor was killed falling off of a building. Certainly I never forgot that. Because I am bigger and heavier than most I have seen small light guys go on roofs that I slip on. The older I get the less I like roofs.
>>> I picked up a basic rope/harness set up
Don, Is that a climbing rig or something from construction supplies? I almost bought a rock climbing harness from REI once but then had second thoughts about its appropriateness.
FWIW, OSHA here will not accept "climbing harnesses"
All harnesses and ropes, tie offs etc. must meet (meaning tested) OSHA rules and be tagged as such.I had a crew member get warned for using a very expensive climbers harness that actually was more comfortable and safer than OSHA approved stuff.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Whenever I am working with someone who has a fear of heights, I get them to a high place, say a roof, and have them simply sit there for ten or fifteen minutes. They don't have to do anything, just sit and relax. When they start getting bored, they can start to work. If they can't get used to it after fifteen minutes, they probably will never be able to work at that height. Most people can.
Yup.....
amazing what a bit of time to center oneself can do....the brain/body gets time to make a decision not based on flight or fight....
I don't have a fear of hieghts; it's the sudden stop at the bottom that gets me!
I've always had a problem with fear, getting used to heights in a new setting or when I've been away from it for a while.
Over my working life I've grown better at it, learning where to put my attention, how to stay relaxed and alert. Having a higher than usual awareness of balance is a good place to begin.
I used to play a balance game with my crew, sometimes, at lunch. We'd take all the scrap 2X4s and place them on edge, on the subfloor and then try to walk on them, stepping or jumping from one to the next. Try it sometime but stay alert or you may twist an ankle.
One of the best ways to learn how to walk in high places is to work with those who are either naturally gifted or very skillful. Here's a short story I recently posted on another thread:
Anyone ever get into poured gypsum roofs? I got sent out on one of those jobs, my first year in the union. It was supposed to be a couple of days on a new school in Goshen, NY. Out of town contractor with his own crew but the union deal was; at least one local man on the job. So the BA called the enthusiastic new guy, me.
Arrived on time but everyone was already up on the roof so I went up the ladder and over the parapet to discover...a bunch of monkeys bouncing from one tiny I beam to the next, carrying stiff fiberglas insulation panels. As I stood there, fortunately over an area that had already been laid in with insulation, I tried to grasp what was going on. The crew guys were literally jogging across the roof, leaping from one tiny beam to the next. The little I beams were running perpendicular to the bar joists and spaced 32" on centers so long strides were the only way to move around.
Then the foreman jogged over and introduced himself. He explained that the first part of the job was to lay in the fiberglas panels, which had been lifted up on pallets. He cautioned me not to step on the insulation because it wouldn't take any kind of pin point load. Falling through meant a quick trip to the concrete floor, about twelve feet below.
I was tempted to beg off the whole thing immediately. I wasn't real comfortable at heights, usually taking some time to adjust to any new ladder or scaffold before the pucker factor zeroed out and allowed me to feel my legs and feet again. But there I was...bottom of the work list at the union...needing a pay check and all these guys were happily leaping from one little beam to the next, like a bunch of circus acrobats. So I just took off, following the rythym which seemed to keep them all moving. About half way across the roof, over the first open area I'd seen, it dawned on me what-da-phug I was doing and I came to a screeching halt. Legs spread, flailing my arms to keep my balance, I was hung out to dry.
"Hey guys", yelled the foreman, "we got a frozen one over here". Everyone stopped momentarily, to point and laugh while the foreman quickly jogged over.
"You OK?"
"Yeah, I think so. I just got a look at the floor and it startled me to see how far up we are. I'm used to walking 2X4 top plates, eight feet up, not running across one inch beams like this."
"I understand. We see it all the time. It happens to most of the first time guys. A lot of 'em never get off the ladder, just say no thanks and head for home."
"I don't blame them." I replied, knowing that the same thought had gone through my head, just moments before.
"OK, just take a couple of deep breaths and start over. And this time keep your eyes on the beams, nowhere else".
It was perfect advice, delivered with real brotherly concern. Like a good coach, he knew exactly what to say and how to add the right amount of encouragement. I could also feel his respect for my willingness to overcome the same fear he'd witnessed so many times in others.
Once I'd made a few trips across the roof, stopping and sliding the insulation between the beams, I was good to go. Adrenaline was keeping my focus real sharp and being surrounded by acrobats made it much easier to quiet mental images of disaster.
BTW, the one inch I beams had a two inch bottom flange, which gave support to the fiberglas
Where the **** was OSHA or the BA......
<<Where the **** was OSHA or the BA......>>
1970, no OSHA. BA was probably warming up his golf swing.
overcome the fear?
Well, compared to some of the stories above, I am wuss. But I spend a lot of time on roofs and it seems like more of them are high and steep than low and less steep.
I am very afraid of heights. But I find that useful. I do whatever set-up is required to alleviate my fear. At that point I feel I am probably reasonably safe. Sometimes it requires tying off with a line, sometimes it doesn't.
So I find my fear useful.
I don't recall any strange sensations going to sleep, but I have noticed that I only have so much psychic energy for heights. There is probably some formula involving the height of the eave, the pitch of the roof, and the length of time on the roof. The result of the formula is "time to get two feet on the ground regardless of how good the set-up is".
Rich Beckman
This signature line intentionally left blank.
I am scared sh##less of hieghts. Unfortunately I keep finding myself on roofs.
What I find works for me is simply focusing on what I am doing and not allowing my fear to interfere with the task. That "usually" works. When it doesn't, i get down.
Dave
Whenever someone new starts on the crew, I have them start walking on the sill plates right away. That way they can start getting the sense of what is to come as a house progresses but are practicing only two or three feet off the ground. It slows their work down a bit but it allows them to practice what they will be doing as we go higher and also gives me a sense if they will be able to do it at all.
I had one guy, literally a cowboy who tight jeans and lots of layers, even in the summer, who was so stiff, it was apparent he would be running the forklift. Could barely move walking on 2x6 sill plate two blocks off the ground. I had another guy who was personally convinced he was afraid of heights. Same process, by the time we got to roof, he was all over the ridge beams-no sense of fear at all.
Take it slow and if it ain't in ya-don't force it. Nothing worse than trying to get some off of a roof who has frozen in fear (except picking same guy up off the ground for the same reason).
Bruce
I have no advice, nor suggestions to offer you...
But I "learned" to walk the top plate.
The first day I was teriffied, but did my best to hang in there...
Next day, I spent getting my bearings...
After that, I was like a cat, walking around and rolling the trusses...
If I had to do it again now,...I would have to start all over again...yikes!
BTW, I hate roofs...
ktkamm,
I have had times that I woke up the DW by raking my fingers down her back as I tried to dig into a roof in my dreams.....
I have had several falls, and often feel scared to uncomfortable.
Best advice I have is work your way up the building getting comfortable at each new height.
The other is to stand on the plates for a moment and "Feel" your weight in your a**.. I am serious, it is a conscious shift of balance from the upper body to the lower body . Flex your knees and "feel" the weight keeping you balanced.
Each job takes a new training time for me, then I am quite comfortable . I have been shaking at the start of a roof framing job and by the end I am walking 2 x rafters from plate to ridge.
You get those dreams too?!when I was about fifteen, I'd be dreaming I was Jungle Joe walking along a cliff at top of a volcano and fall in.Or I would be Tarzan swinging on a vine thru the trees and the dang vine would break.I slept in a top bunk and I would wake up halfway to the floor.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, Yes I had those dreams. Some based in reality. When I was about 7 yrs. old I got trapped on a shale cliff outside of Cleveland. Rock broke away from above me after one of my older brothers dislodged it. I froze to the cliff and couldn't move. Took another brother 45 minutes to work his way to me . I completely blanked the incident out of my mind until the two brothers started talking about it when I was in my mid forties.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
I think it's like riding a bike - You can explain to someone over and over how to do it. But until they actually get on the bike and do it for themselves they'll never really learn it.Same with getting used to heights. Unless you get up there yourself I don't think anything we tell you will help much.
We cherish our friends not for their ability to amuse us, but for ours to amuse them.
Might consider finding a trampoline club that has an adult program. You'll start out with very basic things--like keeping your balance while you jump--and move on as you master the easier things. We tell our kids a lot of the same things everyone has been saying here--start with little jumps, focus on what you are supposed to do, don't look around or let your mind wander.
Other benefits are that it's a great aerobic activity, good for overall coordination and balance, and pretty fun.
Might note that competition trampolines are not like the little backyard ones--some of our kids can get 1.5-2 body lengths between the bed and their feet. Then they start throwing tricks.
(ASI Gymnastics in Rumford Center has a trampoline program, but there are a bunch of gymnastics clubs around Maine that would probably have a trampoline.)
Kathleen
Thanks again for all the suggestions. At present, I have no plans for walking along any 2x4s, no less one inchers! Fortunately, I live in an old 1-1/2 story cape so I only need to go so high. I plan to go slow, take all the safety measures needed and still leave the more involved stuff to the pros. Those of you who don't have a choice, stay safe so I can take advantage of your expertise again in the future. The stories of dreams/sensations at night remind me of the feelings I would have as a young kid at night after a day of body surfing in the waves. I would invariably wake up feeling like a wave was going to crash me into the beach. ktkamm
Practice helps, but it may well be that fear of heights often comes from having a poorly developed sense of balance or other innate problems, and the fear is nature's way of telling you "Don't do that, stupid! You'll fall!"
So use appropriate protective measures.
Walk (or crawl) only forward. Backing up can lead to a fast trip down. After a while you'll be fine. Good luck.
When I was in my late teens early twenties, I had friends that worked at a grain facility which is about 150' tall. There was an addition to the main part which could be reached by walking out of the way to a catwalk or jumping a 3-4' gap.
3 or 4 foot across, 150ft. down.
They would regularly jump this gap for kicks. I knew I wouldn't have even tried. The what-if would have paralyzed me.
I'm the same way today. If I have the what-if's covered, I can walk around something high like its my living room. One doubt, and my knees knock.
I just add toe boards, scaffold or whatever until they quit knocking.
when i wuz young i was a tree climber, we just had manila ropes and free climbed up trees, Once your up you tie in but must walk out onto the branches with just the taunt rope to hold you, sometimes you slipped or a branch broke which meant you fell but swung back into the tree trunck, Sometimes to go from one tree to another the ground man swung your rope from the ground back and forth untill you got over, This was swinging 60 feet in the air with nothing under you, But you have to trust your rope, Now i see the rock climbers doing all this for fun, The only time i was scared is i slipped a lot shimming up a tree with nothing or my knot slipped. I saw guys freeze and walk or run off, we were so busy working there was no time to think about the height. even now i can remember being up 100 feet upside down with just the rope trying to cut with that old homelite, The day i turned into a pro i got a still
Jump in! Roof a 12 in 12 roof with dormers etal. One roof should do it. Half way through you will be cooting out on those dormers to get that last top cap nailed in.
Just like any fear some people can handle it others can't. My dad was an Ironworker, watched him walk a 6" beam some 20' long and three stories up no safety line just arms out for balance. I however didn't inherit dad's ability, I hate heights always have. In high school I started framing houses and I always made someone else walk the walls, then one day just said to he!! with it. It was a sweaty nervous experience but the more I did the easier it became. ( hey that sounds like my sex life). Then I took some skydiving classes that will take your fear of heights away, and give you a fear of landing.
Still don't like heights but I'm able to get up there and get done what needs to be done. Just take your time make sure your comfortable and move slow. If you can't do it, bite the bullet and hire a pro to get things done.
Your dad's ability reminds me of an article I read when I was young, about the men of the Mohawk tribe who were well known as fearless ironworkers, particularly bridge builders. They were said to trust their intuition for guidance. I was impressed by that and have tried to practice being more intuitive ever since. It's a meditative state, one which makes it easier to have a full body awareness without interruption by the mind's usual chatter.
the secret is to focus intensely on the work, the task at hand. this does not mean to be complacent about where you are, but just keep looking at the work, not the location.
that and COWBOY UP!