Hi guys
Haven’t been here for a couple of years. Lots of new people. Great to see.
I am wondering if anybody out there has purchased any of the nockoffs of the Fein multimaster. Since their patent has expired I know that other companies have jumped on the bandwagon ie. dremel (garbage) bosch and a lot of others. Looking to hear if anyone has purchased one and what they think of it. I have always wanted one, but refused to pay the price for the Fein.
Any input would be appreciated..
Thanks Gary…
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Replies
I have the "original" Fein
I have the "original" Fein (the one without the fast release), but several here do have various knockoffs. From what I've heard here they all work pretty well. Hopefully several folks will report in with specific brand experiences.
non-oem fein compatable blades
Up here in the GWN, Rona has a brand "Hausman" set of replace ment blades that runs 19 bucks or so. They fit the original Fein (circular flange) and although I know in my heart that they are inferior steel, they are ever so much cheaper. Matter of fact I picked up a hausman saw minus one blade of the set on the discount table for 25 bucks!
Using the fein is so much less painful now.
But it does seem that other retailers are still at odds as to what blades fit what, and there are a plethora to chose from now, so take yer tool with ya when you go shopping...
Eric in Calgary
One nice thing about the original Fein is that, with the wide flange set, you can fake it with just about any blade.
Price drop on MM blades
Look for a 20% price drop on the Multimaster blades shortly. Fein's attempt at bringing their blade costs into line, no doubt a result of all the cloning.
I've got the Fein and like it but if I recall most of those who have bought the knockoffs think the Harbor Freight is the best bang for the buck. I don't know if the;y like the single speed model or the variable speed one but at between $29 and $59, I'd be tempted to pick one up just to have a back up.
I'm sure they're not as nice as the Fein, and I've heard some say they get hot when used for awhile but, hey, for the price?
Re the heat issue, for most uses it's not going to be a problem -- you run the unit maybe 30-60 seconds at a time. However, I used the scraper blade to remove linoleum from the toe kick in our kitchen while we were remodeling, and I was running it for 10 minutes at a time (about all the arm can stand without a break). I'm guessing the HF model would have been a PITA in that case.
Re the speed adjustment, I mostly run at full speed -- have occasionally adjusted it down (and I think I maybe did when scraping), but I'm not sure that feature is a "must have". (But if it's only an extra $30 or so, it's probably silly not to go for it.)
re heat
In my situation I find if I physical push the tool too hard it will heat up. Letting the blade do the cutting the heat build up is minimal.
It also cuts down on the vibration issue
Patience is the answer
Time is money.
And the Fein Multimaster is not a tool you have to baby. If you have the time or are using a multimaster type tool as a DIY, then the low dollar variety is probably ok. But, if you use this tool whenever the opportunity arises (in deference of course to Dreamcatcher who hasn't yet realized it's use and value), you want to be able to pick it up for the 5 minute job or the all day function. And you don't want to have to ease it along to keep it from heating up...............I don't think I've very often, if ever, bothered to back off because my fingers feel some over use.
For example-removing the caulk along side the cedar batten details around the poorly thought out detailing on faux stucco board.............. Today, running hours at a time-using the stiff scraper blade to remove the caulk. No heat up, no bog down, no problemo. If using a utility knife and scraper-I'd still be there and would have missed 3man golf league. Lesser model knockoff or battery powered..........? Might still be there too.
High price doesn't necessarily mean the best. However, the best is ..............the best. Why bother with anything less if you use this to make a living?
Beats me, but then I'm old and still a dumb carpenter.
I'm confused
Dan
Did you buy the fein or the knockoff. I'm a little confused at what you said. If you paid 500 I'm guessing that you purchased the fein in which case why wouldn't you be happy.
I'm a finish carpenter, self empoyed going on 28+ years. I've done a lot of hardwood this year and I know the multimaster will simplify things. My use is going to be occasional but medium to heavy type work.
Gary...
I'm just saying I could have waited 6 months and had a better device for half the money. But still I don't feel bad about getting it when I did -- the things are REAL handy in certain situations (and of course useless in others, but then so are many of my relatives).
mm threads
I've tried to post some links but the cyber gods are against me right now. There are several threads on the topic of Fein MMs vs the knock-offs over on "Breaktime Classic" . Just got to :
http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktimeclass
hit the tools topic then scroll down or use the search.
Also, "This is Carpentry" did an online article on comparing some of the knock-offs to the Fein.
$500 eh?
DanH,
I don't mean to come off like a jerk, although that's usually the case but where in a single kitchen remodel did you use the Multi-Master so extensively that you got $500 out of it?
I am a professional remodeler specializing in cabinetry and trim carpentry, I own a Fein Multi-Master "Top Plus" kit and then some, and I have installed dozens of kitchens but I have really only found a handful of good uses for the tool. As with most any multi-tool it does many things but not many things very well. In the course of 8 or so years I have owned the darned thing, I would say it has barely paid for itself. Now that blades are cheaper, it may not be such a money drain but still it's usually one of my last resort tools, certainly not my first choice. I'm either missing a lot of opportunities, I already own a better tool for the job, or it's just way over hyped... but I wish I knew which was true.
Oh and to HeartlandBoy, I did try out and compare it to a cordless Craftsman branded knockoff. Whoa...What a POS. That thing vibrated so hard I could barely clinch my hand. Maybe some woman carpenter might enjoy that but I consider excessive vibration in a tool a mark of poor quality. Not to mention it makes it more difficult to cut a straight line. My suggestion is to borrow/try a Fein first then compare all others to that standard.
It's quicker/easier than a backsaw for cutting existing base to fit a new cabinet.
DC
Well, for one thing I had to scrape about 40 feet of vinyl flooring off of the toe kick, in order to get it ready for a replacement piece (wood this time!!!). Hardly any other tool (other than maybe a specialized power scraper) would get in there, and it would have taken literally a week to do it by hand.
I see. Well, sort of.
Although each situation has it's unique intricacies and I wasn't there/don't know everything, I wonder why you didn't just remove the old toe kick by bashing it in with a hammer or simply nail a piece of 1/8" toe kick over it? Don't answer that, it really doesn't matter; what's done is done.
These are really just rhetorical questions to show the difference between the way that a DIY/HO attacks a project compared to the way a remod-pro does. The main difference is that I look at every part of a project in terms of TIME vs. MONEY. When you start seeing time move at a rate of $45 every hour, you really begin to look for ways to improve your efficiency.
Which may or may not be why I don't use my Multi-Master as much as others on this forum who continue to extol it's uses. To me, while the MM may do a lot of things, it doesn't do many well or fast. I use it almost exclusively as a straight plunge cutting tool so really just a specialty tool similar to a jamb saw or a toe kick saw.
Sometimes when I read user reviews on this forum (like when someone creates a post like "Which insert tool here Should I Buy?") I have to either shake my head in disgust or chuckle arrogantly to myself at the answers some give. Tools like a MultiMaster, a JawHorse, and a Festool Domino often get rave reviews over the ways they save time or do a better job. But do they really? Did the MM work faster on that toe kick than a hammer or sawzall? Is a JawHorse more versatile than a saw horse and clamp? Did you really need to domino that joint or would a dab of glue and a nail or screw worked just as well? I am reminded of a project I saw posted at the Kreg Jig Forum; an art wall hanging with about a hundred screws holding it together (http://kregjig.ning.com/photo/back-of-laurel-hill-2-panels?context=album&albumId=2900167%3AAlbum%3A30019). Did it need that or did the creator just have a lot more time on his hand than he had common sense understanding of simple jointery? But such is often the case.
I got a bit carried away, but the point is that sometimes a tool which makes claims to make your job cheaper/better/easier/faster/etc actually causes the opposite. Compare the possible cost savings of a hammer and prybar to the $500 price of a MultiMaster.
DC
Well, just to give a rhetorical answer, the vinyl on the toe kick was badly curled, and simply overlaying wouldn't have worked unless I used Piffin screws every six inches to hold the overlay flat. And removing also was a non-starter -- the toe kicks were built in to the cabinets and could not be removed. (I know this because we did remove the toe kick from a similar cabinet in the bathroom, in order to tile, and it took chunks of the cabinet with it.)
Fair enough.
I guess you did what you had to.
What the heck are "Piffin Screws"?
are you talking about a truss head screw?
Long story, but what he reffers to are drywall screws used for anything besides drywall.
We all do different kinds of work. So you haven't had a lot of use out of your multi master, but a lot of us have. Mine is one the most versatile tools I own.
This year I'm doing a solo redo of the siding/trim on my house, and I got a Japanese-badged (Chinese-made) clone of the Multimaster for some odds and ends tasks; it earned its $70 (yen equivalent) price the first time I used it to cut some impossible-to-reach-by-any-other-means triangles of wood trim hidden under the edges of three bay windows. Replacement blades are pretty cheap (about $3.00 ea)--- if you can find them, and the blade selection isn't very broad or high in quality. I recently got a free Bosch universal adapter, tho, and I'm looking forward to getting some better blades next time I'm back in the states.
One other thing: the body of this clone seems to have been borrowed from the Bosch detail sander or other similar tool, since they left on the "jet exhaust" (sawdust vacuum) port, even tho it's sealed closed and even if it weren't, there's no way it could be used with the cutting blades for which it's designed. Here's a side-by-side comparison with the Bosch detail sander (MM clone on left; note the big [and meaningless] exhaust port):
Have you ever tried putting MM blades on your detail sander?
You bring up an interesting issue. I think I heard the Bosch detail sander went out of production for a few years (I was told it wasn't available here in Japan during that period), and after hearing about the MM patent expiring I wondered whether it was due to an infringement of the Fein patent since it seems to be a similar oscillating design. Anyway the Bosch detail sander is available again, but in conclusion, no, I haven't tried MM blades on it. I'll have to check out how the head is mounted and whether it is even possible, but it's an intriguing idea.
It's always seemed fairly obvious to me that the Fein was based on a detail sander.
I checked the head of my Bosch detail sander and it doesn't look like it would be very easy to mount MM blades, if possible at all; the head itself doesn't come off like a MM--looks like you have to remove a couple of screws on the body to even release the head, at least. Not worth the effort, especially since I have a clone already.
Yeah, I'll have to dig out my PC sander some time and look at it.
Did you say scrape 40feet of vinyl flooring?
I just posted a question like this and wondered if this tool could help me. I have a staircase (steps) 3 floors - with beautiful grade 1 oak wood which was never sanded and polyurained and vinyl tiles were glued to it. I do not know what glue was used but the backing of the tile remained after trying to get the tile off. Tried hand scraping etc. called a refinishing co. to sand and polyurathine it and was told it would only clog up the sandpaper and they can't do it.
Would this tool work for me or is there something else I can do?
Thanks so much.
I replied to your other post also.
If a manual scraper makes progress (even if slow), then a multimaster (or knockoff) will work.
It was 40 feet of "kick" that
It was 40 feet of "kick" that had been covered with vinyl, and which was going to be re-covered with stained veneer. The MM gouged things a fair amount (though I wasn't being particularly careful, since it didn't matter for my purposes).
You probably could use a MM in your situation, but you'd have to be very careful about gouging.
re $500 bucks eh?
I too not thinking to be a jerk, take the opposite tack.
Imagine yer working in a remodel where you gotta cut the baseboard and you *bleep* it up so you gotta replace it. I know you've been shopping for mouldings that after 5 or 6 hours of shopping and phoning yu find out are discontinued. You gotta then make em to solve the problem or else appear really unprofessional. In this case "risk management" enters into the equation. Even if you are succesful in finding replacement mouldings, yer schedule is now also messed up, perhaps affecting the agendas of the plumber/electrician, maybe even the drop dead date that the homeowner has set for the completion. So, the four or six hours you waste finding replacement mouldings, maybe the delays you inject into the job, well, lets be conservative and say thats only 250 bucks out of yer pocket.
Do you let the electrician use his rusty old B&D sabre saw to cut that new outlet into a finished panel thats 9' high? Again..risk management enters.....whatyagonnado when he tears out a huge chip? use plastic wood. Speaking for myself, I'd rather cut the opening myself precisely and easily and then get on with the job instead of whining about "back charges" Work flow ease has to be worth a few bucks. doncha agree? If yer talking about custom laid up panels, a serious chip could cost you easily 200 in materials and then finishing costs. I won't mention job delays. You know what they cost!
So there's yer 500 bucks.
I won't bore you with much more details, but when the tile guy screws up and yu gotta shave a millimeter or two off of mosaics so that the outlet will fit into the box, or if you do yer own tile work and have to grind off the old thinset so that yer new tiles set flush, whell that's gotta be worth a buck or two...at least in cel phone calls to co-ordinate the return of the tile guy and the return on the electrician, as well as meetings with the home owner to explain why there is a two week delay till the tile guy comes back from holidays! And you better not find that the electrician is gone finshing for the next two weeks.
Far better if you can solve the problem yerself while the electrician is there. Of course this kinda stuff never happens on any other jobs but mine (as if eh?)
And if yer fussing with a joint on the crown moulding, and the angles ain't working for ya, it's really hard to run the jamb saw into the kerf to "tighten it up", but if it's paint grade, well that just needs caulking, but on a 100k$ stain grade kitchen reno, you know as well as I that "plastic wood"just ain't an option that would pass muster. And as a pro, you well know what costs are involved with larger cornice/crown mouldings (plus finishing costs!)
Bottom line to me is that I don't find in irrational to acdept an estimate of 500$ savings on a single large reno due to
-reduced "shopping"costs
-facilitation of work flow
-savings in extra material/finishing costs
but that's just my opinion,
Eric in Cowtown
options to Fein MM
I bought a Rigid cordless Job Max for 50 at HD. The Fein blade fits.
Now I have a good cutting tool (it is the blade that does the cutting).
The tool does vibrate but the blade cuts well. For small precise cut outs that occur occasionally this works well
Blade question
Whose blades will fit the Harbor Fright version of the MM?
Thanks.
Probably anybody's.
I've got an old Fein, an a HF knockoff. I can use the Fein blades on the HF if I use the non-slip adaptor and don't crank it down tight enough to break the pins on the HF arbor. I'm too lazy to grind the pins off the hf :)
The Fein is much nicer to use than the HF. We don't use either all the time, but we do use them a lot, and sometimes we them a lot when we use them LOL. The HF is much clunkier and gets way hotter, but it only cost 30 bucks. We did go through 3 before we got one that kept working. The HF blades are okay. The knockoff Japanese saw tooth style are okay, and some are very aggresive. The Fein E blades are great.
Anybody that says these muti tools are not worth it must not have many hard, fincky, or strange problems to solve, I envy them.
Multimaster? Everyone sells one now.
I'm delighted to hear, first-hand, a comparison of the Fein to the Harbor Freight model. With a 10x range in prices, we really NEED to hear about the complete range of products out there.
First, a note of concern about the various cordless models. Fein itself is not happy with their own cordless version. With that as a benchmark, I seriously doubt the value of the cheaper versions. Low power and short run times.
I notice a wealth of attachments coming out- everything from scissors to impact driver heads. Again, the sceptic in me doubts that a marginal tool can become eceptional st any other task.
As I write this, there's one of those 'infomercials' playing. I am not happy to see their demonstrators use the tool improperly- that is, for jobs where I consider the use of the tool inapropriate.
For example, a small drywall ding is better served by filling it with mud - not by cutting out a square. Or, the tool is used for a job far larger than I consider proper. I'd use it to scrape into corners, not to strip the entire window frame or plane the entire floor. Getting up old tile? I'd use a rotohammer, not a multimaster; there's a world of difference between one tile and the whole wall!
I've used an earlier Fein version, and I see the value of the tool. Yet, I doubt 'everyone' needs one. Contrary to the ads, the tool is never a 'replacement' for any other tool; it has its' own role. You still have need for a rotohammer, a saws-it-all, various sanders, etc.
One critical item that's missing from most of the clones is a decent case or bag. With the various attachemnts, tools, and accessories, no tool needs such a tote more than the multimaster. IIRC, the Fein had a 12ft. cord - reason enough for a case!
Now ... should the "Tool Gods" be reading this .... my own take is that were the $400 Fein set available for $250, there would be no clones. By the time you've added in everything that's not included when you buy a clone, and rigged up a box for it all, you've spent as much as the 'gold standard' would have cost.
Experience has persuaded me that tool makers' attempts to 'lock' you into buying blades and accessories only from them are counterproductive. As an example, "Paws Off" has made my saws-it-all much more useful in certain situations, by making gizmos that Milwaukee, Makita, and DeWalt never imagined.
Multi-Master type tools.
I'll throw in my 2bits here as well.
I bought a Dremel on sale and it gave out on the first job when I was on a ladder scrapping the window sill on the second floor. Dummy me had misplaced the receipt so I was up the creek. Finished by hand. When it was working, it was doing a very good job. I want another MM. I had forgotten how deals can bite you at the wrong time.
So, with my Xmas money, down to the tool place and walked out with the Fein Top. Half again as heavy as the dremel but less vibration and nice to hold. I'm thinking next spring the rest of the windows get done.
Then it turns out I have to do some repair work on a son's door. While getting a new striker plate and other stuff I discover a Bosch cordless kit marked down from 250 or so to 85. Kit includes a 12 volt drill, the Bosch MM and a flashlight. Darn thing jumped off the shelf into my cart and I couldn't get it to jump back onto the shelf, no matter how hard I tried. I got it home and discover the batteries are compatible with another Bosch drill so I am happy. I tried the Bosch in the shop and it's nice to hold and vibration is not bad. The Bosch also came with an adapter that lets it use the Fein and Dremel blades, although I have not tried. I have resisted going back for the other kit that was stashed with this one.
So when the weather warms up a bit, I'll finish the door repair. By the way, I found that these MM do a fine job of mortising on door jambs when fitting new striker plates.
I will keep the Fein and the Bosch. I know this is excessive but I'm old and senile so what the h---. Now where can I find a Kapex!!