From the San Francisco Chronicle:
“A San Jose man driving a stake into the ground to fix a fence outside his home Sunday hit a gas line and caused an explosion and a fire that destroyed his home, according to San Jose fire officials.
“The San Jose man, who was not identified by fire officials, was trying to repair a fence by digging a stake into the ground when he nicked a gas line 6 feet underground, Pianto said. He immediately evacuated his wife and two children from their home and the next-door neighbors, and called the Fire Department.
“The explosion buckled a wall and the roof
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/05/BAGVBNUU2H1.DTL
Replies
Hmmmm, sounds vaguely familiar(without the explosion part!)...5HP auger vs. gas line. auger 1-gas line 0.....me running like hell. Gas pressure actually lifted the auger up out of hole and was left running after the "hit. Oopps. Gas company marks line after and we had narrowly missed on 15 other holes. Whole subdivision construction crew got the afternoon off....we were very popular!
by digging a stake into the ground when he nicked a gas line 6 feet underground,
What the hell is he doing 6' deep!
I've put a lot of fence in back in high school working for a farmer and I dont think I ever went down more then 40", and this was for cattle.
Doug
Another case of overdoing a job.
We go 4-5 feet with the hole, but six certainly seems excessive. Wondering if he had a powered auger on back of a tractor and just went to bottom with each hole.There was an explosion at andy C's neighborhood a few months back from something like this too.
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'course the media never reports anything wrong eitherLOL
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Bet that was a surprise. Saw a ruptured 16" GL blow a scraper 30' in the air once.
Last week a drilling company was puttiing in some water wells to irrigate the practice fields in the Bastrop, Texas high school, and hit a methane pocket, toppling the rig, blowing a big hole in the ground, and flooding the field with over a million gallons of water. The ground-water district hadn't issued them a permit either....
I read that over again, and here is how I would interpret the reported -
He was just repairing the fence, and the word stake means something small and temporary which is consistant with a repair job. I think he was temporarily propping the fence up and driving a stake six feet away from the fence when he hit the gas line.
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I think that you have it right, Piffin - that makes much more sense than a gas line six feet deep.
I live in San Jose and often have to explain utility easements around a homeowners property. Underground utilities seldom go past the front of the house and are usually 18" - 24" deep. They're seldom directly on the property line, but will be 4' - 5' on one side or the other. Telephone, gas and electric often share a trench parallel to the property line that T's to a front corner of adjacent house's.
My cable TV line is on the property line opposite of my phone, gas, & electric services. Water lines usually angle from the meter to the main shutoff valve (mine crosses my front yard). Sewer lines usually run straight out into the street from the approximate center of the house and there's usually an "S" stamped in the curb over the sewer line.
The names and numbers vary all over the country, but every utility truck I've seen has a phone number somewhere on it to call to get a utility locate.
I think he was temporarily propping the fence up and driving a stake six feet away from the fence when he hit the gas line.
Now that would make sense.
Doug
Way back when, about 30 yrs ago, I was helping a friend move into a new house. He borrowed a large construction truck from the co. that I worked for as he was a friend of the owner. The house had been empty for some time and weeds about 3 ft tall was all that was in the back yard. I was backing the truck up to the deck in the rear of the house from the alley when I hear a snap and then a whooshing sound. What the heck?? I jump out of the truck and look under it to see the gas meter under the rear duals and the open line bleeding gas. I was one nervous kid. Called the gas co. and they acted like it was no big deal. Took them a couple of hours to get a man there. At least there was no big bang.
Something that ought to be mentioned here since it has not yet is that most (if not all) states in the US have a toll-free phone number for you to call 48 hours before you dig. The utilities on the service side of the meter will be located and marked at no charge. Locating the private side (past the customer interface, meter, pedestal, etc) is the homeowner or contractor's responsibility.
In most cases, the law requires you to make this call before digging. Circumstances vary, some states it is any machine excavating to any depth, some states it is any digging deeper than 18 inches, and so on.
That phone call has saved me a few times. You wouldn't believe how often the gas line is right where you were going to dig.
It's all fun and games until you hit gas, electric, and water in a common trench. Of course phone and sewer are usually in the same trench so there is always the calling for help and cleanup afterwards problems too. <G>
We started a remodel job in PA and had a guy from the local utility company come out and sprayed red paint on the ground so that a fence crew could do their thing. Long story short, he marked the wrong spot. Chain link fence post was driven into an underground 110 volt feeder from a nearby transformer. Funny thing, no one complained about any power outage for almost a week until one of our guys got shocked touching the construction fence. We had 110 volts to ground along 6o feet of fence for over a week and no body knew the difference . Once it was found though, every lazy azz worker from the city showed up to get credit for time on the job site.
That is scary.A friend of mine pulled up hundreds of feet of that green epoxied gas line with a D-4. He was just cruising around this vacant lot with the rippers down, at some point he turned around to look and about had a heart attack.It was old abandoned line.We hit the biggest power line I have ever seen buried about 8" to 10" under a playground. It was under a concrete slab. It was on the private side, the facilities manager wanted us to take the concrete out, he said that there were no utilities there, go ahead and dig.Fortunately the operator was experienced and had good judgement. Something didn't feel right so he stopped. Man those were some big wires.I could go on and on with those stories. Gotta be careful out there.
I called Miss Dig and still almost blew myself up. We were setting a wood front porch on our first flip house. I was digging about 5 feet away from the flags with a hand auger and found an old abandon looking pipe about arms length down. "Well, the flags are over there and this is old pipe" soooo out comes the sawsall, arms length in a hole, all of a sudden Hisssss. I never moved so fast. I have no idea why the sparks from the sawsall didnt ignite.
In the end we got to meet the whole fire dept and the gas company repaired for free since it was miss marked.
Now that is really scary.And it happens.I know someone who hit an oil pipeline (the big 6' dia. one that carries crude) yeah, that one, with a track hoe.It was 3' shallower than where the engineers swore up and down it was.Seems someone adjusted the grade in that subdivision since the installation.Anymore if the hair goes up on the back of my neck I get off the machine and look. It has saved me a few times.I sure wish that worked all the time. So sad about all that PVC water line. <G>
Big breaking news tonight.
New house south of Salt Lake City UT. blows up from a gas leak.
They just found the missing wife and the Qestar gas man in the basement, sadly not with us any more.
Large explosion and knocked people down in the street.
They had cleared the neighborhood to be OK after a? broke a gas line.
But something must have been flowing at that house.
The young couple had only been in the house 2 weeks.
I live near Saratoga Springs, where that happened, and it is really sad. According to the paper the couple had a toddler who was luckily outside the home. I imagine the contractor who initially broke the line is feeling terrible, as is the gas crew who cleared the house and neighborhood as safe. They haven't reported anything on the gas company employee who died, but I feel for his family as well.
I've never trusted those gas sniffers much. I've had occasions where I've smelled gas, and I've called the gas company. They detect nothing. I smell again and call again. Finally it gets bad enough that EVERYbody can clearly smell it, and suddenly the sniffer detects it. I would say I just have a sensitive nose, but years of allergies and parents who smoked say that isn't so. I can imagine a situation where the gas company says everything is OK and the homeowner says: but I smell something in the house. Come in and smell for yourself. Then BOOOOOOM.
I have two of them.
First, there was the utility pole being set near the telephone central office. We knew that the cable was along the road. This was before the finding services. We called the phoneco, and they said "you're OK. You are on the south side of the road and the cable is on the north side. OK. We drill. All of a sudden we are getting multicolored, small earthworms. And by coincidence, the town cannot call out of its local area.
Yup. We hit the cable going out of town. Phoneco wanted us to pay. We had a record, stating that "Joe" said it was OK. Problem was, this area was by a slanted railroad crossing, and to make it easy for the railroad, they jogged the road to cross perpendicular. Later they straightened out the road. What was on the north side was now on the south side. They didn't bill us.
Second item. House building (mine). Two years earlier they dug up the sidewalk and installed new, bigger gas mains to replace the ones in the rear easement. They abandoned the rear gas mains. The contractor found the old one and rightfully panicked. I assured him about the abandonment, and he didn't run to call the gas company--he walked to call them. They confirmed this and all proceeded well.
All these stories are why every city, county, and state should have a Geographic Information System (GIS) with every untility plotted complete with x,y, and z coordinates available to every contractor in an on-demand process.
It's simple to do, just record the physical properties of the utility, including the levation, and place it in the "system," and tie it to a known coordinate system.
You can "peel" back layers starting above the surface, and contiinue until a depth where there are none. This is valuble information for "one-call" systems.
Several states require a location for new utilities by the installer. Cuts down on street cuts too...
Two stories.
A friend of mine works for BigPhoneCo as a line man. He was gone for a few days very late. I ask him why. Some farmer in his own field was plowing and ran into a very large very old phone cable with HUNDREDS of pairs of wires. In the old days I guess these were not clearly marked so to fix this they had two guys in the hole toneing the wires with guys on either end telling them (on cell phones mind you) when they toned the right wire. So it was hook up to end of wire 1 and tone all of the wires until you find wire one. Meanwhile other guy is doing same thing with other end. It took If I recall something like 3 and a half days (24 hours per) to fix this.
They tried to go after the farmer but it turned out they phone company never had permission to run the line on his farm (well I think it was his dads when the line was ran) they just took a short cut across the corner of it to get from one right of way to the next. They guess the guy was plowing within inches of this for years. Then ended up moving the line and buying an easement from the farmer.
Next story. I built a new house this pass summer. The County comes out with a GPS system to locate my drain field on the county info system. The gas company comes out with a pad of paper and a sharpie. Go figure. On the day they connected the gas up to the house I smelled a HUGE amount of gas as the guy was driving off. Flag him down and he returns. I tell him the issue he walks around and says yeah I can smell that also. He pulls out his sniffer and nothing. We go into the house no smell and no sniffer. Go back outside still smell gas, but nothing from sniffer. He says well this is most likely just some gas hanging around from when he connected the line to the meter and drives off. Eventually the gas smell went away. And I looked at the meter to see if it was running (I had all the gas off in the house) and it was not so nothing has came of it yet. (this was 6 months ago) I love it though. Gas company could not find that line if they wanted to (I guess they could use a tracer on it) but the county can tell you to the inch where the drain field for the septic is go figure.
Doug Meyer
Gee, and you don't even need an expensive "sniffer" to locate a bad septic field, noses work just fine ;-)
On the other hand I did a job where the home owner swore and the records showed no septic tank in the back yard.
Yep ,sure enough there it was. We located it with the rear wheels of the RITEWAY concrete truck. No "sniffer" needed.
are why every city, county, and state should have a
Yeah, that would make sense. Two iterations of cable company ago, they put a metallic tape down over any u/g runs they made. They'd send a person out with a sensor that would find the tape, and you'd get a decent marking, if the person driving the detector was on the ball.
They've not installed u/g in the last few years--nearly flat-out refuse to, even. Don't know if they even have the detectors anymore.
Trickier part about GPS/GIS-ing the data, is that there's still the weak link of the person with the spray can of paint actually on the ground. I have not good cure for that.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
TXDOT seems to have a pretty good system. All their generated plans have major utilities plotted, and some have elevations also. The kicker is that some are not updated when making in-the-field changes.
The guy with the spray can is only as good as the info he is working with. When in doubt take a little out with the bucket, and a lot with the shovel...
I've had dig safe miss the electrical as often as they hit it.
Water lines I an find by dowsing.Never had to work a gas line.
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My father was an engineer with the local telco for 35 years or so; he could use two bent coat hangers to find buried cables. About 2 years ago, I was driving down the street where they were digging to lay gas lines, and there, walking down the middle of the street, was a guy in a hard hat, with a safety vest, with two bent coathangers in his hands....I really wished my father had been still alive to see it, he would have really got a kick out of it.
I use #10 solid copper
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hello.
landscaper wi. ive hit all the local stuff at least once. thankfully never interesting. curently in the upper puninsula of WI a very small town was desimated by gasleak/explosion. some of the buildings are currently being rebuilt. all fingers are pointed at "annonomous" contractor. ive been watching close to see who did it but they just wont say.
Just a note.The locator services only located for contracted utilities.Now that would typically include all of the major ones.But my city is not included.And IIRC other threads have given examples where cable companies in their areas where not covered..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Up here, they'll work anything underground. Contracted public utilities they do for free. On private stuff, they charge $75
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The locator services only located for contracted utilities
And, in my town, it's only the "public" lines that are marked. The connections to an individual house are not marked--you have to cipher those out yourself (BTDT).
Far, far, far, too common to get in a back yard and find all sorts of only 6-12" buried "utilities" (like romex/extension cord for the long-since demolished separate garage; or "added on" hose bibs or such).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I've seen "One-Call" mis-mark, and totally miss any kind of line you can name. One time they totally missed a 12" main gas line in the proposed area of an overpass abutment. The driller stopped his 30" bit when he saw sand and wire coming up in the spoil. Had to move a shaft over to miss it. They always confuse water lines and waste water lines also.
Better have a couple guys ready with shovels when you see a "root."
Last fall they replacing a telephone pole couple houses down (~300ft).they been working for a couple hours and I started to hear this high pitched whistling noise. went on for a couple hours.Door bell rings, cops. "we're asking folks to voluntarily leave as the phone co. hit a high pressure gas line. should only be 2 hours."So we leave and return about 3 hours later. still working on shutting of the gas, but we stay home. never smell any gas.when we got home the guy across the street is standing in his driveway watching them work, smoking a cigarette.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Off the subject, but related.I knew a guy that worked for the state hiway department. He worked in the office and told the guy which shovels to take so that they had the right ones to lean on.Anyway out in the country there was a ditch with a telephone cable in it. I guess it was suppose to be buried, but never done.Anyway he complained to the phone company that they needed to clean the ditch, but the phone companies response was that they would get to it whenever they got to it and cable was a public utility and they the hiway department could not do anything about it.So they had rains and flooding problems. And the state told then at Monday, 8 am that they where cleanign the ditch with or with the phone cable in it.At 8:30 the phone company was there with the ditch diggers burying a NEW cable..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
A few years back was doing a deck, patio, landscaping, etc. I knew ahead of time that an old gas line for a grill that wasnt even there anymore was buried shallow back there. The guys with the bobcat come to punch auger holes for all the footings and I've got this gas line sitting there somewhere and sure enough they found it.
So the guy on the bobcat stops cold and there's this line winding its way up the screw and now just hanging there, not broke, and his compadres come over and all have this real nervous look about them. Didnt tell them on purpose. Really hoping for this moment.
I pulled out a big set of cutters (flex line) and said in my best idiot voice "aw, that's probably not got anything in it, lets see" and boy they scurried back quick. That was pretty good. I had to break it to them after and showed them the disconnected end back by the house. But it was good for a chuckle.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
For the last couple of years I have been getting a letter from Enbridge warnign that I am near an oil pipeline and warns we of all of the potential problems, who to call and all of that stuff.I have been trying to figure it out as the closest transport pipeline that I know if is 2 miles away and I believe that it is gas.Anyway, this time they put a map on the back. I am at least 25 miles from the pipeline.I probably won't get anywhere, but I am going to call them and see if they know where they got my name from..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I work for the Gas utility in MI, we only have to put services 12" deep on private and 18" on public. Gas mains only have to be 24" deep.
That sounds insanely dangerous to me - especially after being forced to jackhammer ledge to get a power service line a minimum 18" down under a driveway!
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This thread has me remebering a story my father used to tell. He was a Firfighter and Chief. We lived on the west side of Clevland in an area that had numerous old gas wells and shale oil wells (cica 1890-1920). Many of the old mansions etc. had private wells for their old gas lights.
Any way , he gets a call one day from a paving company asking him to come look at something.
He shows up and sees a brand new asphalt parking lot with the roller still sitting on it .. but the surface of the lot is covered with blue gas flames. The whole lot looks like the top of a gas range.
Hmm says he call the gas company.. gas company arrives and checks things out.. nope not their gas.
A bit of historical exploration reveals an old mansion had sat on the site.
It turns out that an old gas well had been plugged with a log that had rotted over the years and the excavaion and paving work had disturbed the log and well gas was seeping out. It was ignited when they used the propane powered heaters on the paving before rolling!
He often talked of house fires that were caused by old gas lines in those old mansions that had been plugged off for yrs. but then started leaking. First stray spark and up went the building. No added scent to the gas so people didn't notice the leaks..
Sad.
I have a brother-in-law story to share. About 10 years ago I got a call from my BiL, who said, "I was putting in a fence and I cut the cable TV - what would you do to fix it?"
To which I replied "call the cable company", since it's their line up to the house.
A week later, I was over at his house. He'd been running a power auger right next to where his underground service came into the house, digging a 2' deep hole.
Lucky he didn't kill himself.
Two to share
Customer calls thinking her ground water is contaminated. States she keeps finding dead birds in yard. She's on a well and very concerned. Go over gouse to check out. Walk in front door and out back slider into back yard to chech water system. Seems OK, she tells me about dead birds again. As she is telling me this, bird lands on fence and falls over dead! Tested fence, running 220V. Fence guy nicked sheathing on service and eventually the fence post and service fused themselves together. Call power company and fence guy. Which do you think showed up first?
Digging pool for customer on outer key. Call sunshine, wait 48 hours, proceed. Three feet down hit 3000 pair telephone cable seven feet off back of house, not marked. Knocked out the entire phone system to the north end of the island.
Dont you just love this business!
...bird lands on fence and falls over dead! Tested fence, running 220V...
I thought that a circuit had to be completed for a bird (or anything/anyone for that matter) to be electrocuted. Otherwise, they would be electrocuted every time they landed on a high tension wire. What am I missing?
We've hit a few things throughout the years as any excavtor has. Anyway last year had one of my backhoes on rent to the phone comp. Doing some work on a fiber optic line.They tell my operator go balls deep lines 5 feet down. Opeerator plunges in his bucket curls it in pulls up "a funny lookin tree root". Knocked out communication to the part of the airport and a bunch of government research buildings. Laughed my #### off. One thing when you call them and they screw up, but when there standing right there. Ha Ha
I was told by the power company and my electrician that the rest of the fence, which was chainlink, was creating a circuit and bleading off the line.
how about somebody hooking the coral fence up to 3 phase...
discovered when somebody peed on one of the fence posts..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The flip side to these stories is when homeowners don't know about utility easements along property lines.
Several years ago, I was designing a new phone company line that needed to connect an underground cable in a sidewalk to a pole in the back of someone's property.
It was in a very high-rent part of town and the property was beautifully landscaped. While I was making my field sketches and notes (from the sidewalk), the lady came out and asked what I was doing. When I told her, she went absolutely ballistic. In no uncertain terms, she informed me that she had no intention of allowing the phone company to enter her property - and that if I didn't leave immediately, she was calling the police. I went into full politician mode, got her somewhat calmed down, and suggested that she contact her lawyer and have him explain utility easements.
I went back to the office and told the boss that this job may turn into a real hassle. About a week later, I got a call from her apologizing for blowing up and almost begging to not destroy her landscaping. It took some serious lobbying, but I managed to have the job done by directional boring instead of digging a trench.