Festool plunge cut saw and router
TomVallance
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
Hello everyone and thanks for reading this….
As a graduation present for myself I’m looking into purchasing a Festool TS 75 plunge cut saw and the OF 1010 EQ router. I have no experience with these particular models or with any other Festools…!, so any feedback you can give me will be appreciated.
I plan to include the dust extraction system later on.
Tom Vallance
… good toys don’t come cheap!
Replies
tom.. those are great tools.. but there are better systems that cost less money and produce better work
take a look at Eurekazone
i went shopping for Festool about three years ago.. and would up with the Eurekazone EZ Guide
Thanks for the advice... I should have been a little more specific in describing the circumstances....I am from Denmark and the Eurekazone EZ Guide is not available here (could order from website but with shipping cost and taxes... no way).
Eurekazone EZ Guide is only a guide which mean I'd have to use my old Bosch; I was looking to upgrade the whole package by getting the TS 75 plunge cut saw... the guide comes with it, and that, to me, seemed pretty sweet...
- tv.
MikeSmith - "those are great tools.. but there are better systems that cost less money and produce better work
take a look at Eurekazone"
I don't know Mike we have both Festool and Eurekazone tools there is no way I could ever say "there are better systems [that] produce better work" than Festool. I happen to prefer the Festool set-ups but I don't think the difference between Festool and Eurekazone is all that great. However I do agree with you that if cost is an issue then you wont really lose anything by going with Eurekazone.
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as to the plunge cut saw... the thing i don't like about it is.. you have to plunge it and keep it plunged by continuing downward pressure
and as to the router and repeating system.. sorry .. EZ is way out in front.. IMNSHO
hey... how about those red sox ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike et al,
I may find that I'm the minority, but I tried the EZ system and just wasn't all that impressed. I found it annoying to tighten/loosen the hex nuts in order to convert from 48" to 96" when cross-cutting and then ripping plywood sheets. The clamps that hold it to the material were time consuming to move around, and I often mistakenly ended up with both clamps on one end after attaching the two halves of the track together. And I wasn't terribly happy to "permanently" alter one of my circular saws with the plastic base.
Now, I haven't tried the festool myself, but I do find myself gettign closer and closer to giving it a whirl simply because it seems to address some of the main compalints I have with the EZ system - although it does cost more money since you are buying a whole new saw as well.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
justin.... it is indeed annoying to swithc from single to double.. so we have both
and as far as the clamps go.. 95% of the time i don't use the clamps.. just the weight of the guide.. it doesn't move
if i'm doing something that i want some insurance on,
i'll use the clamp (s)... usually just one on the far end
as far as having a saw dedicated to an EZ... i have two dedicated to EZ, a 7 1/4 & an 8 1/4.. i also have another PC lefty and a bosch cs20
now.... what exactly do you think you'll gain with a festool plunge saw.. isn't that dedicated ?
and i wouldn't think the festool clamp will stay in place as easy as the EZ, since you have to plunge the saw, so the clamps are more neccessary
..
anyways.. if you don't like the EZ.. that 's ok..
me , i'm just amazed at how it makes difficult things easy Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i've never had to use the festool rail clamps for anything, ever.
the rail has two strips of something on the bottom which provide tenacious grip. they are replaceable but i've never had to in three years of heavy use.the problem with the festool rail, as i see it, is registering the rubber edge exactly with the cut marks. the rubber strip is somewhat indefinite.
>>>the problem with the festool rail, as i see it, is registering the rubber edge exactly with the cut marks. the rubber strip is somewhat indefinite.<<<
Same thing with EZ -- still, I like it. And "somewhat indefinite" is still pretty doggone close.
Billy
Hey Mike,
I guess my problem with the EZ system is that I attached the base plate with the adhesive strips--so it's basically never coming off. Somebody else just mentioned bolting it to the plate on my circ saw, I can't remember why I didn't do that (or if it was an option given in the directions?). I know you can use the EZ saw for other tasks, but I found the big green baseplate to be a bit cumbersome- maybe it's just me. Several saws would solve the problem, and several tracks would be great too, but I don't have that kind of tool fund at the moment and just can't justify having so many extra tools.
In any case, I'm not even sure how the festool track assembles - so I guess I can't argue that I like that one better than the other. And not clamping the track down makes sense, but I can't remember if it had rubber pads on teh bottom to keep it from slipping around or not...
My complaints are just a combination of some frustration with the EZ system, and a whole lot of jet lag from yesterday...sorry to piss and moan!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
The Festool track connectors ain't great either. You need a very small slotted screwdriver -- and I have already had one of the tiny set screws (in the connector) work loose and fall out. I bought the fancy clamps for the track -- used them maybe once or twice. The track stays where you put it-- even on Melamine or MDF without slipping. The plunge mechanism of the saw helps, since you have to keep some downward pressure on the saw as you cut -- which in turn, helps keep the track from slipping around.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Justin
You mention that you don't like to mess with the hex nuts on the rails.
If you do a little planing you wont be going back and forth from long to short to long rails. I'd assume that planning would be of some benefit on the Festool as well, or for that matter, if you were cutting on a table saw!
I have 4 lengths of rail, 64", 2 @ 50" and one @ 24". I don't catch my self switching more then two or three times to cut out an entire set of kitchen cabinets, that's maybe something in the neighborhood of 35 - 50 boxes worth of parts. I cut list the entire job ahead of time, saves me even more time, try it.
Your other complaint about the dedicated saw, what do you think the Festool circular saw is? Try using that thing to cut a 2X4 in half, without the rail of course, because you can use your circular saw that is "dedicated" to the EZ to do the same job.
Permanently altering a saw, come on Justin, bolt it to the sled, take if off if necessary, I can with mine. I didn't think of the three holes in the bottom plate of my circular saw as a problem but who knows, you might be on to something.
You can probably land one of the Festool systems for the asking so why not.
Doug
Used the ATF 55 Festool on some built-ins for a client a few months ago. Worked like a dream. It's completely eliminated my need for a sliding table saw attachment. Can't speak highly enough about it.
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Edited 5/12/2006 3:21 pm ET by unTreatedwood
I ditched a panel saw when I got the EZ Setup. My first time reaction was the same as yours.
THEN Dino came out with the repeaters and the EZ Square. That was even better. Just imagine being able to set a stop so there is no tape or ruler needed!!!
I have the OF 1400Q router. In my opinion, it is the best router in the the 2-2 1/4 hp class. I would expect the OF 1010 is at the top of it's class as well.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Tom
Eurekazone EZ Guide is only a guide which mean ...........
Your wrong on that but it seams like your wanting someone to validate your purchase of the Festool system.
Festool is a good product, IMO not as good as the EZ, so why dont you get it?
Doug
Hi DougU... never said I wasn't going to buy the Festool or that I was shopping around for anything else... my inquiry was directed to those who could give me some feedback on the particular Festools I´m interested in or Festool as a whole as I have no first hand experience with that make. Always nice to hear what others have to say about things your interested in. Perhaps some of you guys had horrible experiences with the TS 75 or the OF 1010, Festools service or what ever. That's all.
I checked the EZ Guide web page again after you wrote I was wrong about it being only a guide... I was, it's a guide system, my fault... still dos'nt come with a plunge cut saw or router which this posting was originally about...
Regards,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
The EZ can be used with almost any saw. I have a Festool Plunge saw, makita, Porter Cable, Bosch and Skill brand saws that I use with the EZ. Check out the narrow cutting capabilities of the EZ - as small as 1/8" and the best clamping system going.
Burt
Seems like the EZ is in high esteem with you fellas... like I told Mike Smith though, I live across the Atlantic and with shipping costs and import taxes the EZ would become the expensive one between it and Festool.. Besides the guide is included with the purchase of the TS 75 which is what I'm really looking to upgade to..
Had I been on your side of the pond I would certainly have given the EZ a second look.
Thanks for responding,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
I can understand the problems with transportation and import taxes.
Burt
I own the Festool saw system -- but I have the smaller of the two saws. It is a slick set up, and I can recommend it without hesitation. I haven't been keeping up with Festool lately. I bought the saw just after they came out with a new model -- and it had some bells and whistles that were worth having when compared to the old model. I know the larger 75 saw was/is due for an upgrade as well -- but you should make sure that the upgraded model is what is available in Denmark.EDIT: As far as dust collection is concerned, I did not buy the Festool vac, but only because I already owned a Fein. I have also set it up with other plain jane shop vacs. Overall, the dust collection is extremely good. However, I have also used the saw on construction sites where dust and mess is not an issue. And so far at least, I've not had a problem with dust clogging the plunge mechanism. Festool sells a cheap plastic end cap that slips over the end of the rail -- and it is really handy for guiding the cord and the vac hose so they don't snag on the rail. ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Edited 5/7/2006 9:17 am by nikkiwood
nikkiwood..
I don't know what kind of work you do with the saw but has the 55 been sufficient in terms of cutting depth?... I'm hesitant about the added weight of the 75 but the added dept of cut though...
Burt mentioned something about the plunge action being hampered when used in conjunction with the vacuum.. you know of this problem?
Thanks for responding,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
I just edited my original post to add comments about dust collection. I use my saw mainly for cabinetry and trim carpentry, so the smaller saw works fine. It was my impression that the bigger saw was useful if you are working with a lot of doors, or you need the extra cutting capacity for 45 degree rips in 2X stock. I don't, and that's why the smaller saw made sense for my work.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Tom After years of buying dewalt, bosch and makita and never being truly satisfied I started to buy festool and I've never looked back. The saw system is excellent, I have a TS 55 which has plenty of depth of cut for 99% of work I do. I can't offer any opinion on the router but as soon as my current one dies I'll be upgrading that to festool as well. You don't say what kind of work you'll be doing, but if you start building cabinets I'd look into getting one of their multi function tables it makes an already versatile system even more useful"Man is a tool-using animal. Without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all." Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881)
What kind of work will I do with the saw... well, I have a house to build for my wife, child (one more on the way) and myself in the near future not to mention I'm finally getting to build my workshop!!!!
I have been considering the TS 55 but thinking that I'd be kicking myself the first time I needed the extra dept of cut if I were to choose it instead of the TS 75. I know it's heavier, bulkier and would only on rare occasions bee used to extents beyond what the 55 could manage, but still... I could be wrong.
I have a Bosch 4000 tablesaw so the multifunctional table won't be added. Tried it once though, seemed a little unstable.
Thanks for responding,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
Edited 5/6/2006 3:55 pm by TomVallance
Hey there,
I've got the 55 saw and the 1010 router.
I have yet to need more depth than the saw will give (doors. rip, crosscut etc,)The biggest drawback on the 1010 is the guide inserts, three screws, PIA and have to use the Festool inserts unless you replace the base of the router.the bigger router (model?) has snap in inserts, worth it if you do a lot of template work.I have built a longer table by buying longer alum rails and works well with the saw for crosscut and rips. Once you index the guide and anglegauge/fence to each other on the table you get great cuts both ways. Don't cut the table out of the picture too quick, all the festool clamps work just about anywhere, table, guide, rails edges, slots on the fence, cutting guide and probably some other spots I've missed. Festool clamps work like normal clamps too and the only ones that I have that work with all the tools guides etc. Tools/guides rails etc: Spend some time playing with it and you'll figure it out. There is a wierdness/learning curve with it all because of its design and integration. Overall very pleased with the cut quality and integration with the dust collection. The vac is worth it too. Stack tools on it and roll around.
Worth it, but maybe the the bigger router.
"Eurekazone vs Festool"Kinda like a "Ford vs Chevy" thing?Great, Now somebody is gonna invent a "Dodge" or Toyota comment....
'Hate to be disagreeable but the Chevy - Ford comparison really isn't accurate.
First the EZ Smart system is universal. Use any circular saw or router you would like. I currently have 7 saws equipped with EZ Bases. First is a Festool. It’s plunge action gives some unique capabilities but at the same times creates some difficulties. Second, 3 makita’s - a 61/2 Cordless, A siding saw with a built in dust catcher and one of the 5007F Makita’s. A Porter cable for general use - Primarily on the Festool MFT. The final pair are a Bosch 8 1/4 and a Skil 10" for straight line ripping heavy materials.
EZ has the repeaters that offer repeatability - serves the same function as a fence on a table saw - set the repeaters and cut as many pieces as you wish without measuring.
The EZ Cabinet maker is a combination of the EZ Square and a repeater. These are used for cutting large panels and almost anything else you can think of. When using the cabinetmaker, you normally crosscut the sheet first and then do rip cuts. Just lay the sheet on the smart table and start cutting. You only move that big panel once. It is a much easier way to work and can also replace the panel saw.
The EZ Smart was designed as a replacement for the table saw. The Festool system was designed to supplement the table saw. The EZ Smart system when equipped with either the EZ Smart clamping system or the guide control units, can rip cut a piece as small as 1/4".
The rails are the heart of the system. The EZ rails are much stronger, have a dovetail self aligning joining system so you can join shorter rails and not have transport longer rails. Also you can cut on both sides of the EZ rail. Festool is single sided.
Anti chip protection on the EZ Smart is very good. Earlier this week, I was cutting formica face up with a Freud Diablo 7 1/4" blade. There was no chipping.
The Smart Routing kit adds line boring, planer, door hinge boring, etc capability.
What do the Festool owners think of some of the EZ features? Several are asking EZ Smart to make a version of the repeaters, Smart routing kit, and cabinet maker for the Festool rails. You can read their posts on the EZ Smart Forum (a manufacturers forum on Sawmill Creek.).
Burt
You're obviously a "Ford guy" : )
(get it)
I have been over there, been on every page of their site and the like the system.I happen to have the Festool and works well and thats what OP was asking about.No doubt the EZ is a great system and looking for a reason to pick it up and to justify the expense.Would be nice to use the Bigfoot or even the Mag77 on a rail for deck inlays and borders, and I am impressed with the repeater by the way....You don't have to sell it to me.
Give Dino a Call at Eureka Zone - I can't remember the number but it is on the web site. There is a base available for left hand saws. I think you would need to use the bigfoot. I'm not sure that a 7 1/4" worm drive on the EZ rail would give you the depth that you need. I have a 10 1/4" skill set for the EZ. I use it straight line rip heavy timber.
Also the SRK (Smart routing kit) is available for the Festool Rails. Same price as the EZ Verison. The first customer responses are on the EZ Forum on Sawmill creek. Again talk to Dino.
Burt
Hey..
Have rarely had much need for guide inserts so that couldn't justify the bigger model router, which by the way, costs something like $ 200 more than the 1010 over here.
I know the Festool table has many options, but hell, the base model is over $1000 and with all the trimming I'd have to sell my old VW to afford that... nice, but no.
The TS 55 or the TS 75, geez, undecided 'bout that... not too big a price difference to make the call; the weight though.. TS 75 is over 3,5 lbs heavier... that's a LOT.
I've read reviews about the vacuum, should be very good and very efficient.. love to have one... trez expensive.. taxes in this country, good grief!
Thanks for taking your time to respond,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
TV,
I'm confused here. Do you want feedback, or do you want feedback? If you've made your decision, then just buy the tools and tell others how 'nice' they are.
In this country many times we look for tools that make us better and that will also work with the 'stuff' we already have.
You've asked people with skill and wisdom for their input. You're looking for praise, where you should be asking these guys forgiveness for not heeding their words.
food for thought,
Jericho
I can see from some of the responses I'm getting that my english skills are somewhat lacking; I thought I had asked for experiences others had had with the tools I'm seriously considering buying, but that seems not to be the case... apologies to you all.
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
tom... the extra depth of cut would be very important.. i'd definitely go for the bigger saw
so many things you can do with that system so you wouldn't want to be limited to working with 3/4 stockMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Get it. Great tools. You wont be disappointed.
So are you a Dane or are you an American stranded in a neat little country? My kin are all imports from waaaaay up at the tip. Lived on a farm near Horby. I've been there, and well, I'd say all over the country but as you know, thats like a 4 hour trip. Fond memories of lopestej, akavivt, Tuborg, flounder . . . the food man. What food! I still put fried eggs and onions on my burgers.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
I'm a Dane formely stranded in the US.. spendt 2½ years in Stamford, Conn. in my early teens. I'm glad you had good experiences with the food though we're not known for our fine cusine... topless beaches, yes, the grub, no.
Regards,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
Tom,
Sorry to go all way back to square one but I just noticed that you said "Add dust extraction later."
That may not be wise. There has been some problems with both the ATF and TS series with dust build up inside. Problems seem to show in two ways: First you may not be able to plunge the saw in some cases. Others have the dust build up and force the blade down. When you set the blade on the rail and start the saw, the blade is in contact with the wood and causes a kick back.
I personally haven't had a problem but some users have had this happen.
Burt
Burt,
Couldn't that problem be solved by just cleaning out the saw every once in a while, say with a burst of pressured air, or is it more complicated than that? Their dust extraction system is one of the things I found to be particularly well engineered (on paper) and well integrated in the design of the tools... but if you're saying it's crap in use..well, that sort of bursts my bubble...!
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
Edited 5/7/2006 6:51 am by TomVallance
Tom,
When an adequate vacuum is attached to the Festool the dust collection is close to the best that is available.
As I said, I haven't had a problem. I just wanted to make you aware that the potential exists. To use an old expression " To be fore warned is to be for armed." As long as you are aware of the potential and blow the saw out occasionally, I don't see where there should be a problem.
As for my personal opinion of the Festool saw, overall is far from my favorite but it has unique capabilities. I'm in the minority. Most owners rave about it.
Burt
Seeing Burts' comment ("not my favorite saw") I thought I should add a comment. The Festool saw is fine when working with the guide, but I would never even think about using it for freehand work (as you would with a conventional circular saw), since it is virtually impossible to see the cut line.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
...interesting... nothing at all to guide the cut?
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
I'm talking about rough construction -- cutting 2X's and sheathing to size, etc. The kind of stuff where you draw or snap a line, and follow it with your CS.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks to you all for responding and giving me your opinions and insight...
A little follow-up on the progress
I went to my tool pimp today and we talked it over; he assured me he'd make me a deal on the TS 55 and the OF 1010 .. 'cos I said the listing price wasn't gonna happen ($1368 for the two).. which was a freakin lie as I'd sell my kidneys to own those sweeties... anyway I'm decided/affirmed partly to the respons from you guys.. thanks very much!
TV.
PS: I'm gonna be in the market for a nail gun and compressor in the near future and I'll be asking you all again... consider yourselves warned!
... good toys don't come cheap!
Edited 5/9/2006 8:51 am by TomVallance
Edited 5/9/2006 8:52 am by TomVallance
You could order them from Germany instead. Follow the link
http://www.hundt-direkt.de/index.htm
Thanks for the advice, hadn't crossed my mind, I'll look into it.
Thanks for responding,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
If you order from Germany make sure the voltage is compatiable with your location,Festo 's sister company Protool have saws and guide rail systems and the saws can be used without the rail.They are available in Australia not sure about your location talk to festool
If I remberber it correctly, Tom was located in Denmark. I´m not sure about England, but the rest of Europe has 230 v 50 Hz. I live in Sweden and have ordered some Festool tools from Germany, because of the lower prices.
You can send them out to us the price of festool here is outrqrageous. PS we are in Australia
Edited 5/12/2006 8:59 am ET by Bolts
Edited 5/12/2006 9:00 am ET by Bolts
To add to what Nikkiwood said, I also understand that the Festool saw was never designed to be used off the rail. If you don't use the rail you have no place to put a stop for kick back protection for plunge cuts.
Burt
I have an idea...sign up for Tipi Fest and see an EZ demo while sucking down some suds : )~If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
:-)... yeah, maybe that's the answer!
Cheers,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
I've had the 55 and the 1010 router and the vac for about three years now. I also bought some other Festool stuff along the way after that first purchase. As for the saw the quality of cut is just wonderful. The just place the rubber strip on the bottom of the rail on the mark cut. Although I haven't seen a rail not scarred.
I find that the saw wants to kick when the plunge is made at the beginning of the cut when I drop the blade only half its diameter into the board. It seems to work better with plunge into all board or make it into air before the cut. I use my stufff in the field and my carpenters have nicked it up pretty good (many signatures on the 109" rail) but it still works fine. I have the hole drilling jig set up for the router and it gives me a really beautiful product and is easy to use. I only have a 32" rail for that but I only do shelf pins once and a while. The 32" rail create a challenge for longer pin runs and is more time consuming the a longer rail would be. I use the router for dadoes with the rail and it works great. I've had the collet stick like the dickens a couple of times when I didn't remove the bit for a month or two when the router wasn't being used. Aslo the vac doesn't come into play as much as I thought it would. I use it about a quarter of the time. Mainly with MDF. I've used the vac and saw on some projects and it tripped the breaker every other cut. Also like probably a lot of us when I got the system I used the clamps every time I made a cut and now even with the most expensive stock I rarely use the clamps. As far as cutting narrow stock I just set another board of the sam thickness next to the narrow board I want to rip (I might use clamps in the situation) I have a ton of great things to say about Festool but there are some problems ie setting the bevel presents a real challenge. Not only the actual manual setting part but also reading the bevel. I see they changed the foot last year which is kind of frustrating. Can I send mine back in for the upgrade? Should have been a recall that foot P's me off sometimes.
Dino
I detected the same thing from the onset!
I recall a thread over in knots along the same lines. I think that guy already had the tool before the thread.
Doug
Dino
A Funny but... depressing book
Those are the best kind!
Doug
... brushing off ego and keeping kidneys... gotcha!
it's only TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!
Tom Vallance was right, you were just trying to belittle him, you and your "it's us against the big guys" marketing strategy. Pull your head in mate, anyone would have thought you'd invented the straight edge.
I bet you sell 90% of your product through forums like this, and as a SELLER you shouldn't go around laying crap like that on people.
Tom,
Don't lose sleep over this. Your original post was clear and to the point, it's just that these threads sometimes get off-topic, especially when somebody gets anywhere close to mentioning a guided saw/router system of any kind!
Please don't let this prevent you from posting in the future.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Thanks for the encouragement... still sleeping like a baby, snoring like a rhino and will certainly post again... choosing my words V E R Y carefully... :-)
Regards,
TV.
... good toys don't come cheap!