Does FHA require the water heater in the garage area to be 30″ off the floor?
Thanks for any input
Does FHA require the water heater in the garage area to be 30″ off the floor?
Thanks for any input
Construct the intersecting gable on the main roof for a faster, easier-to-build assembly.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox
Fine Homebuilding
Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox
© 2024 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.
Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox
Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.
Start Your Free TrialStart your subscription today and save up to 81%
SubscribeGet complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.
Already a member? Log in
Replies
My understanding is they require 18" off garage floors. This is due to volitale gasses from auto and mowers etc. setting about.
Many sad stories if loss due to fires that this simple elevation might have prevented.
Just A Guy With A Hammer
Thanks!
That would only be true of gas water heaters, of course.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
would a gas water heater pass inspection if it was installed on top of three cinder blocks?That would get it 16" off the groundHome depot does not sell a stand for a water heater
Maybe in Kansas, not in California.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Home depot doesn't sell a stand
oops I repeated myself
There's a lot of things HD doesn't sell. Go to a real plumbing supplier and buy a water heater stand.
Here's what they have at Loweshttp://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=133314-11713-40S22U&lpage=none
Maybe in Kansas,
I was thinking "maybe in Alabama" ask Johnny.
Joe H
Is anyone here at Breaktime an FHA Appraiser?
The question would have been stupid if it had meant electric. Gas is the logical assumption.
Just A Guy With A Hammer
I found an appraisers forum and looks like you were right on the money with your advicehttp://appraisersforum.com/showthread.php?t=138351Tanks everyone (excuse the pun)
I have mentioned this before.From my limited experience you never know what they will call out.In one newer home (less than 10 yo) they called out lack of tubing on the T&P valve and the WH connect to the gas with two flex connectors.And when the reinspected it they required that the burner would light. However, they ignored the fact that you could not turn the water on to the WH as the hot water line has frozen and cracked in the MB. Also ignored a light fixture handing loose and missing smoke.In an older house they stopped looking in the basement after they saw the WH, which needed replacing. And ignored the BAD full of corrosion and cover that would not fit because of an odd ball collection of miss sized breakers.But they required that paint shut windows be openable..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Thanks BillI know you work with realtors and sometime when you get a chance ask them if the FHA rules are changing They are supposedly relaxing their standards and trying to move away from the guidelines which in the past seemed like "were way out in left field" This is what an FHA appraiser told a group of realtors at a presentation recently
In my experience, there is a wide range in FHA "inspectors."FWIW, they usually get on water heaters too low, and routinely miss gas dryers with the same ignition height risk.The rule is really against ignition sources within 18" of the garage floor, not just water heaters.
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
Thanks!
My friend the RE agent says that she don't understand it either.But that it used to be real picky about bunch of specific things. And as you say it is becoming more aimed at value. But nothing more specific..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
The question may have appeared stupid, but only if the OP understood the reason for the rule. It merited clarification.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Yes, I understood about the fumes and the flame in the gas water heater.This is a water heater that is in an unheated room off to the side of the garageWe have a lot of houses like this in my areaSomeone said to put a pole in front of the water heater so that a car won't hit it and that is some excellent advice(however in this case it doesn't apply because the water heater is in the side room)Thanks again
i don't think it will need elevated if it's in a separate room with a door . your right ,alot of mid 50's houses have this setup.
if you have a newer hw tank it's suppose to be explosion resistant/proof. you can tell by if the pilot light is enclosed in a chamber.
is your house going fha? i figured fha was about dead and gone by now.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Thanks Larry, I didn't know that about the water heaters and the burners being isolated.Mine is 2-3 years old. I installed it. I think I bought it at Sutherlands but I can't remember.It's a 40 gallonYes, it's my house and it's selling FHA.We had our inspection today and the water heater is the only issue.Thanks again for the info
i'm sure if your only a couple years old that it has the flame arrest system on it.thats been out for 5 years plus. are they asking that it be lifted?if so kinda a pain in the --- .nothing works ,all the lines to be moved etc.
i'd take a look ,see if you pilot is encased and see if that makes a difference. if not all there is to do is move it..........................your havin fun now.larryYOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
The home inspector recommended the WH be raised.They've asked that I do it and I said I would.Today was the Home Inspection BUT, THE HOUSE STILL HAS TO UNDERGO AN "INSPECTION" WITH THE FHA APPRAISER.So my thinking is that I will go ahead and have the WH raised PRIOR TO THE FHA APPRAISERIf I wait, and I do it after the FHA appraiser, THEN I HAVE TO PAY FOR FOLLOW UP INSPECTION as he would have to come back.I can raise it for $50 to $100 so I'll go ahead and do it tomorrow
before you start:
make a promise to yourself that you will keep the volume down on all four letter words low enough that i can't hear them. plumbing isn't hard but it's frustrating as heck.
are you hard piped to the hw heater,if so i would buy a set of flex lines and try and make them work. if not your up for piping,if your copper and need anything let me know.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
LoL, thanks LarryI've got copper plumbing and I like your idea about the flex lines to connect to the WHInterestingly, there's no shut off valve at the WHI guess I'll just shut it off out at the meterThanks again!
"Interestingly, there's no shut off valve at the WH"No main shutoff for the House?.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
i'm not sure if that became a code thing or what,but around here most houses without a basement ,just crawspace don't have shutoffs. so you have to do it at the street meter box. it sucks on a icy day. larryYOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
If it is all practical I would add a main shutoff even if not required.Nothing worse than have new home owner have a plumbing problem and not know how to shut off the water..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill a lot of houses around here have crawl spaces.There is typically no shut offOccasionally someone will have a valve close to the entrance to the crawl spaceThen you have to open the lid and reach in and turn the water off.I guess I could install a shut off valve tomorrow on the cold water at the WHIf I put a shut off at the WH will it serve as a shut off valve to the rest of the house? Kitchen, bathroom, etc?I don't know - I guess I'll find out tomorrow!I prefer the shut off valves which use the gate valve technology
Edited 12/29/2008 10:27 pm by mrfixitusa
if you put a shut off on the cold water coming in to the hw,it will only shut off the hot water side. sometimes the main line comes in and close to the hot water tank it t's off 1 going to the hw and another headed under the house to the cold side. if you put a shutoff before the t it will shut off the entire house.
i probably wouldn't mess with it,been that way for 40 yrs .YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Thanks Larry, I'll take a look.
If it's in a separate closet it may not have to be elevated if...
there must be a source of outside air,(air not drawn through the door) typically a vent pipe from the attic down to the ignition source. No holes or vent in the door and there should be a threshold to seal bottom.
The door must be sealed or weatherstrip to prevent drawing air through it from the garage or adjacent room. There must be a vent for combustible gasses into the attic or through the roof. The ceiling of the room otherwise should be sheetrocked and sealed.
Oklahoma rules, what I have to do here.
Just A Guy With A Hammer
Larry, we talked about 901 N Litchfield selling and I found out today it sold for $83,000
excuse me while i go puke.
so far the deal i bought over on woodrow just keeps looking worse. if i'm lucky the city will need it for a new water plant.................................lolYOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
DO NOT use a gate valve!! Use a good quality ball valve. Gate valves never seal tight and you always have a dribble to deal with when working on the plumbing.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Thanks DanI appreciate it!
i think and maybe somebody can confirm this. to be to code your suppose to have a shutoff at hw ,but you might be grandfathererd. and your pop off valve use to just have to go to the floor,now it has to direct toward a drain or outside. so if your house is like a lot of the others you may need to go over to the floor drain under the washer. just more stuff for the insp. to bitch about. larry
if you look they have some stainless flex lines that have a ferrel fitting so you can just attach to the pipe with no soldering of a threaded fitting.i don't like them long term as well as the copper ones,but your selling so it don't make much diff.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Larry I know you've got a dog - you and your wife and family should go see the movie "Marley"It's really good - I saw it yesterdayKind of a tear jerker though
Edited 12/29/2008 8:24 pm by mrfixitusa
we used to have a dog just like marley,so it's on the go see list while the kids home. there goes 40. lol i could just get another dog cheaper.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
I don't know if the newer WH design requires 18" up, but I would - if the "anti-explosion" device is activated, you have to replace the WH
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
i had never heard that,so what takes place if a explosion takes place in the water heater that makes it worthless?
how do you know thats what happened?YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
they may also require a metal post in front of the heater to prvent a auto running into the gas line
Are you in an area not covered by any local building codes? It's been a very long time since I had any dealing with FHA, but when I did the more stringent code prevailed. FWIW, IRC, Chapter 28, Par. P2801.6 says not less than 18" AFF. If you are in an area that has a lot of shaking going on, it must be strapped/anchored to the wall.
Thanks - I appreciate it
gas or electric?
gas at 18"
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
It's natural gas WHThe utility room is off the garage and really doesn't have the ventilation and air circulation to leave the WH the way it is at floor levelSo I'll go ahead and raise itThe room is unheated and it gets really cold in the winter and I've always wondered if that is hard on the furnace and HW heaterIt must not be, as the furnace is 40 years old and it passed inspection yesterday.The previous WH was REALLY OLD when I replaced it a couple of years ago. A sticker said it was mfg in 1981 or 82This house had been a rental for 30 years when I bought it and I'm guessing no one ever did any kind of maintenance such as draining the WH periodically to get the sand out of the tank
I've always wondered if the extreme temps is hard on the single wall sheet metal flue pipe going from the WH to the furnace flueI found holes rusted in the old flue pipe when I replaced the WH a couple of years ago and have always assumed the flue pipe is going to deteriorate going from freezing cold to hot again and again and over and over
Ouch! That should NOT be vented into the same flue as used by another combustion device. Needs its own B vent out.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Ouch! That should NOT be vented into the same flue as used by another combustion device. Needs its own B vent out."Uh?Probably 95% of the furnaces and WH that I have seen share a common flue..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill, looking back I should have raised the WH when I installed it 2-3 years agoIf I had done this job for a customer they would probably not be happy.If this situation ever comes up again I am going to raise it just so the house will be up to code and ready for an inspection even if I am going to continue living thereagree?
My RE agent bought a house to flip and ended up renting it.She was concerned about a number of FHA issues, but could never get a straight answer on them.Any way this is a 2 BR, 700 sq ft house built in 1944. It has a single tuck under garage and the WH and furnace share the basement with the garage. But a good distance away.When she bought it the gas was on and had it transfered. About 6 weeks later I was working there and the gas co shows up to turn on the gas. Although it was on all the time they wanted to look and saw that there was copper tubing to the FP log lighter. Said it was no longer to code and I let them take it out.Nothing else said. But later I found a very small gas leak on the furnace. And the vent pipe on the WH was falling off.About 2 years later new tenets and the old ones had the gas turned off. Gas man comes and see that the WH does not have a gas shutoff. I went and checked it and it was true, surprised that I did not notice it. And called out that it should be riased as it was in the basement with the garage. But in this case there is not enough head room on the vent. Maybe a low boy when the time comes or just depend on the new antiflashback WH.But he said all of this verbally and turned on the gas.I told her about what has been discussed in here (you, overbudget, and/or Monney) about always making sure that the utilities stay on to prevent problems like that.The next one that she bought has copper tubing running for a gas stove. At some time someone put a red tag on it. But again it was just a warning and did not say that it needed to be replaced. And no name on the tag, but IIRC it was dated a number of years earlier..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill,I had a check list 3-4 years ago that was used for FHA inspectionsThe inspector would identify the problem and then code it in his report according to the checklistIt's helpful to know what they're looking for and I was trying to stay one step ahead of them and I need to find that list or get an updated list if I can find one.The other thing is I do some work as a handyman and it makes me look bad if I have done some kind of repair like installing a WH and then a year later the owner has to redo it as part of the sale of their home
or maybe in some situation where it has to be brought up to codeThanks again for your info
Double ouch!!Ouch
OuchIs it upsized?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Gama (Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association) says that it is OK for class one appliances (natural draft).It says to follow the manufactures instruction and National Gas Fuel Code.http://www.gamanet.org/gama/inforesources.nsf/vAllDocs/Safety?OpenDocumentUnder Venting Done Right, Installer.http://www.nachi.org/forum/f20/furnace-and-water-heater-sharing-vent-15633/
"The main vent must be the size of the largest appliance vent, plus 50% of the second.You can not put a forced vent appliance with a natural convection water heater flue. It may back draft at the air break."http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12530
"When you replace an older furnace or boiler with a new 90+ AFUE appliance or a heat pump. In this case, the heating appliance will no longer vent into the old chimney, and the combustion water heater will now vent through an oversized chimney. This oversized chimney can lead to condensation and inadequate draft. The new chimney liner should be sized for the water heater alone, or the water heater in some cases can be vented directly through the wall.".
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
""The main vent must be the size of the largest appliance vent, plus 50% of the second."There you go - it has to be sized right and not just scabbed in, which was the impression I had.I've never seen them tied together that way
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
did you getyour heater drained? if you have run water thru the lower valve wit pressure on and it flows good. then cut one of the lines on the top and let it run. sometimes it won't pull air thru the faucets. larry
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
Larry I had some trouble draining it.I opened the drain valve and nothing came outOpened the pressure relief valve and it drained pretty goodTook about half an hourYou were right this is an enclosed WHI don't think the flame is exposed You have to look through a small window to see the pilot lightI bought a sheet metal pedestal at Lowes and raised it 18 inchesI wonder how necessary this really is but I guess it's done nowthe problem is there is room under the table to store things and if anyone ever stores something flammable under this table there could be a problem if the fumes go straight up into the WHI replaced 1/2 solid gas line with a flex line I was talking to a guy about a leaking gas line and he indicated there really isn't much pressure in a gas lineHe said you could turn it on and hold your thumb over the pipe and seal the lineI put it all together and turned everything on and nothing leakedwhen I pulled the WH THERE WAS THE MAIN SHUT OFF FOR THE WATER like you had previously mentionedIt hasn't been used in years.I added a ball valve which can be shut off when the next guy changes the WHI had a surpriseI disconnected the hot and cold copper at each nipple and there was a lot of corrosionThe copper had corroded and the nipple had corroded alsoI could barely get the nipple out of the WHBoth were stuck in there really tightThe nipples are the new energy efficient devices I would not recommend trying to take apart a WH and moving itI was worried I would end up ruining it and be stuck buying a new one.It would be better to simply wait til it goes out and needs replacement AND THEN RAISE ITIn summary, the 2-3 hours it would have taken a plumber took me about 10 so par for the course