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fiber cement board siding

user-152358 | Posted in General Discussion on March 26, 2005 05:24am

 I’m using Hardie plank siding and trim for the first time. Should I chaulk the nail holes or use a cement patch?

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  1. User avater
    MarkH | Mar 26, 2005 05:51pm | #1

    I'm thinking exterior spackle.

  2. joeh | Mar 26, 2005 05:56pm | #2

    There should be no holes to caulk. You don't want the nail heads to break the surface, just touching.

    What kind of nails are you using?

    Did you read the instructions? Obviously the answer is NO.

    Joe H

    1. budreaux | Apr 01, 2005 04:51am | #20

      Why be a butt about it?  They are seeking information. If you don't want to offer helpful info don't respond.  How many questions are there that aren't documented somewhere.  Go back and read the welcome page.

      1. caldwellbob | Apr 01, 2005 06:58am | #21

        When I install cement siding, I blind nail it with my Hitachi framing gun, using 8d ring shank galvies. I use Big Stretch caulking in between the pieces, putting a bead down before I push the next piece tight against the first one. The Big Stretch works like a champ. In my climate, I sure wouldn't .leave any gap between the pieces of siding. Whatever gun you shoot, you should be able to set the depth light so you don't break the surface of the product.

        1. dIrishInMe | Apr 01, 2005 01:27pm | #22

          I've used a framing gun for installing FC trim too.  Used the rubber boot on the nose that came with the gun (but is rarely used) and set the depth of drive so that the nails drove just a bit proud. Then set them properly with a hammer blow or 2 so that the heads were just snug down to the material. Matt

        2. gdavis62 | Apr 01, 2005 03:00pm | #24

          Please identify that coil gun by model number.  Thanks.

  3. gregb | Mar 26, 2005 07:03pm | #3

    Are you using hardi-plank or panel?

    If plank, you can blind nail along the top edge if it's not too wide, &
    your walls are fairly flat.

    Joe's right- breaking the skin weakens the connection & can allow water into the hardi. We get good results by using a coil nailer with an adjustable depth of drive. I've also seen crews hand nail the stuff, but I wouldn't want to do that for more than a few pieces.

    1. gdavis62 | Mar 26, 2005 09:46pm | #4

      What size coil nailer?  Paslode and Hitachi make "framer" coil nailers that will take the size of nails used to install fibercement siding.  Is yours one like that, or a coil nailer of a size only for siding and trim?

      I am asking because we have a couple thousand lineal feet of FC clap to do this summer, and was thinking of getting a new air gun for the job.

      I was hoping, though, that the air gun could be used to do something more than just siding and trim.

      1. gregb | Mar 26, 2005 10:19pm | #5

        Gene, we have an both an older bostitch & a new makita nailer. They both shoot 1 1/4 to 2 1/2" nails- wire or plastic collated.

        We use them for siding, exterior trim, sheathing, & nailing down 5/4 cedar decking with s.s. 8d ring shanks.I considered that hitachi you're talking about, but we already have a max coil framer, so I decided to go for the makita because it's a little more compact than the hitachi. I know a lot of people swear by the max sider as well, so if you decide you don't need the ability to shoot framing nails, that might be worth a look.Here are a few links.http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00023SDPE/qid=1111868164/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2_etk-tools/102-8489676-1574511?v=glance&s=hi&n=228013http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007ISWV/qid=1111867693/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-8489676-1574511?v=glance&s=hihttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004YOJU/qid=1111867693/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/102-8489676-1574511?v=glance&s=hihttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006FKI5G/qid=1111867773/sr=1-18/ref=sr_1_18/102-8489676-1574511?v=glance&s=hihttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000225JZ/qid=1111867773/sr=1-19/ref=sr_1_19/102-8489676-1574511?v=glance&s=hi

        1. gdavis62 | Mar 26, 2005 10:47pm | #6

          My partner has all the airguns for exterior work, and I have got all the light stuff for inside.  He has a Max coil siding gun, which I am sure we can use for the FC claps.

          I am hoping we can get the Paslode "Floor-Grip" nails to work in the Max, for spiking down the Advantech subfloor.  I have seen the specs on these nails, and they look like they are worth the price.  Wire-collated and in a 15 degree mounting, they should work in the Max just fine.

          I was sort of thinking of getting a gun for me, the first in my "heavy weapon" category, and wanted the maximum versatility.  My pard and I work together, and for everything but siding, we have the guns to each be operating one.  Framers, roofers, trimmers, staplers, pinners, there are at least two of everything now, but only one sider between us.

          This one interests me.

          View Image

          The Paslode F325C.  Shoots coil nails with 15 degree collation, in sizes ranging from 0.099 x 2, up to 0.131 x 3 1/4.  It even lists some specialty stuff it shoots at the low end of size, with lengths of 1 1/2 and 1 3/4.  I cannot tell from the crappy Paslode site, what kind of nails those small ones are.

          What I am wondering is, would this gun have enough depth set sensitivity to drive nails for blind-nailing on fiber-cement?  I guess I will just have to get hold of someone at Paslode that knows the product well.

          1. dIrishInMe | Mar 26, 2005 10:54pm | #7

            many folks use 1.75" roofing nails (from a roofing gun) to install fiber cement siding boards. Matt

          2. gregb | Mar 27, 2005 12:11am | #8

            Gene, I've heard that the hitachi nv75 has a good depth setting, but I don't know about the paslode.

            We have the stick version of the paslode gun you posted, & it's bullet-proof. The depth setting requires an allen wrench, though. Is there a local store around you where you can check out any of these guns?We've also used our roofing guns, as Matt suggested. We usually use them when we're replacing the siding on an old house that has solid board sheathing & we don't have to worry about hitting studs.If you go the roofing gun route, one thing we've discovered is you have to make sure your gun has enough power to nail f.c. Our old makita works great, but a new hitachi we had couldn't do the job, so we returned it.

          3. user-152358 | Mar 30, 2005 03:59am | #9

            I own the hitachi Nv75 and use 8d stainless rings to apply the trim. excellent gun wouldn't trade for any of them. Wouldn't a cement patch work better for the nails that did pierce the surface. They say to use one if you have too patch up dents and cracks?

          4. Kyle | Mar 30, 2005 06:31am | #10

            I hate to change the subject but I am bidding on a 4000 ft house that is all Hardie Siding. I've done plenty of houses that were mostly brick and very little Hardie, but I've never done one 100% Hardie Siding.

            Anyway, What's the best way to bid this?

          5. RTC | Mar 30, 2005 07:08am | #11

            figure out how much siding and fasteners you'll need and how long it will take seems like a good way to bid.

            RTC

        2. RSC | Apr 01, 2005 03:52pm | #25

          I am doing a small job of hardie plank siding (7" lap) so I will be hand nailing. What nails? Also the customer wants the exterior corners to be mitered rather than butted to corner board. Any advice on this.

          1. Notchman | Apr 01, 2005 04:24pm | #26

            Good luck mitering the corners.

            My first 3 or four F/C jobs I hand-nailed with 5d galv. shingle nails.  Not an efficient method; sometimes you'll bend 10 to get one in unless you drill, especially in those places you're going through an overlap.

          2. DanH | Apr 01, 2005 04:32pm | #27

            When we did our house in Masonite Woodsman (nearly as hard as Hardie) we pre-drilled all the hole on the cutting bench. The only place we had an air nail was where the builder had changed stud pitch (which he did more often than seemed to make sense).Pre-drilling in this way (or at least pre-marking) may actually make things go faster in many cases, since the guy on the scaffold doesn't have to measure/estimate where the nails should be.

          3. gregb | Apr 02, 2005 02:44am | #28

            I agree with wormdrive about mitering the corners. It's next to impossible to get clean miters along the edges of f.c. - the stuff just crumbles, & you end up with a ragged edge. An option you might consider, though not a perfect solution, is to use pre-formed metal corner pieces if you don't want corner boards. The corners are about 1 1/2" to 2" wide in either direction, & are bent with a lip at the bottom to capture the siding. As for nailing, you can use 1 3/4" roofing nails, or 6d siding nails. The roofing nails seem to be easier to drive because the shank's a bit thicker than the siding nails. Pre-drilling will definitely help, but isn't absolutely necessary if you use roofing nails.

          4. DanH | Apr 02, 2005 04:07am | #29

            We used the aluminum corners on our Masonite job. Some people don't like the look, I suppose, but I think it gives things a tidy look, and not as "heavy" as corner boards.

          5. Faulted1 | Apr 02, 2005 04:57am | #30

            I redid my house with Hardie lap siding and Hardie shingles on the dormers.  I agree about the corners and lap siding -- That's a no go, however, I did weave the corner of the shingles with good success.  You have more overlap and the shingles are a denser material.

             

            FF

          6. User avater
            myriad | Apr 02, 2005 07:20am | #31

            I used the Hitachi Coil Nailer with Maze double dipped nails. Don't miter the corners as it just won't work, and you will have a bitch of a time trying to get a good seal.  I boxed the corners with 2x6 on one face and 2x4 on the other. Then I had my aluminum guys cap it when they did the soffits, fascia and eavestroughs.  I have enclosed a picture to give you an idea of the (almost) finished look. I need to dress the front porch and install the gable gingerbread when it finally gets warm here in Toronto. It is supposed to snow 10cm tomorrow!!The men may be the head of the house, but the women are the neck and they can turn the head anyway they want.

  4. RTC | Mar 30, 2005 07:15am | #12

    you shouldn't really have any nails exposed on the siding.the next peice should lap over them.as for the trim, we usually use caulk sometimes spackle.i've never tried a cement patch because caulk is so easy and works well as long as there isn't too much shrinkage.i would be interested to see how a cement patch does though.true Hardie does say that your nails shouldn't be counter sunk but i don't like the way nail heads look on trim.i also like to use deckmate brand screws with the lap siding the hold super strong and you can remove the siding easily if you have to. we have to use screws a lot on our icf houses but i've used them on stick frames also.good luck!

    RTC



    Edited 3/30/2005 12:16 am ET by rtc

    1. TJK1141 | Mar 30, 2005 09:34am | #14

      "you shouldn't really have any nails exposed on the siding.the next peice should lap over them.as for the trim"Ideally, that's true, but walls aren't always flat and some boards will have too much gap at the bottom and you have to put in a screw or nail at the bottom to pull them down.

      1. RTC | Mar 31, 2005 03:25am | #15

        in most cases like this i like to use a 15 or 16 ga. finish nailer or soffit stapler. down here on the beach anything exposed ,even stainless steel!,will eventually rust if not countersunk and covered.

        RTC

        1. mikevb | Mar 31, 2005 03:48am | #16

          Amen on that finish nailer.

          I tried using my Max roofing nailer to install Hardi Soffit on one job.  Busted the hell out of it and didn't even set the nail completely flush.

          Wound up using my 15 ga finish nailer shooting a nail every 4-5 inches.  After being caulked it seems to hold up fine.

  5. TJK1141 | Mar 30, 2005 09:29am | #13

    I did my house in Hardi cedar mill and used the square-drive SST screws designed for fiber cement (from Manasquan). At first I tried a nail gun (NV75), but could never get the depth adjustment to stay consistent. Screws are slower, but you never have to worry about them backing out. If you mess up and want to reposition a board, that's easy to do with screws.

    For finishing, I use exterior spackle. Here's one trick if you're using the Hardi with a raised grain. Apply spackle wih the edge of the putty knife parallel to the grain and slowly move across the hole at right angles to the grain. The spackle will pick up the grain pattern of the plank and the patch will be invisible after painting.

    I'm sure the pros will prefer nails as it probably gets the job done twice as fast

  6. mgc | Mar 31, 2005 07:00am | #17

    I'm just completing the siding (hardie 5 1/4" textured) on a 4000 sf house/addition.
    Blind nail everything to the studs. Face nail only when necessary (below windows, rake wall siding tips...) Hardie says use cement patch whatever that is. I used MH exterior spackle on the very limited nails I exposed.
    My Bostich sidewalling gun would cripple/bend the nail fequently if I didn't pay attention to the problem and set the nail square and thoughtfully.
    Hardie stronly recommends blind nailing to the studs (thereby nailing through one board instead of two).
    Here's my beef with thier spec. They say "leave the appropriate gap" where siding meets trim. I called them and they will not give a straight answer but only say "we used to say 1/8" but you guys in the field were leaving greater gaps and we were getting threats of law suits daily..." So they go vague to save thier asses and leave us out here to hang. After talking with them long enough I came to realize that the reason they want you to caulk an 1/8" joint is not for reasons of stability but liability; they want another layer of padding between the installation and the product performance. I personally thing the joint and the caulk look aweful. I'm making my gaps a small 16th. OSI Quad caulk is good stuff though, especially in the cold weather.
    These companies are ridiculous. Marvin's Integrity window requires 4 or 5 water proofing systems to be applied in the field to get the installation right (pan sill, caulk flange, apply thier corner stickers, tyvek system, ice and water over flange). If a window leaks,what do you think they are going to say?

    1. RTC | Mar 31, 2005 08:47am | #18

      we usually try to butt all our joints tight.doesn't always work but we never leave more than1/8" and usually have less than 1/16".we have never had any problems.actually come to think of it a Hardie rep told us to butt the joints and don't worry about leaving a gap.that was about 8 months ago.

      RTC

    2. DanH | Apr 01, 2005 04:12am | #19

      Actually, 1/8" isn't a bad choice. It depends on several factors, of course, but the wider the gap the more the caulk can expand and compress without failing. 1/16" is cutting it pretty close, if there's going to be any motion at all in the joint.Also, the amount that caulk can flex depends on both the depth and width of the caulk bead -- if the bead is deep compared to it's width it's more likely to fail, so a narrow gap can't be caulked very deep (which increases the chance of failure a different way).The other factor is being able to get the caulk into the joint. This depends on the fluidity of the caulk, but for standard stuff you have trouble getting an even bead into 1/16".I personally like the appearance of a well-done caulk bead.

    3. dIrishInMe | Apr 01, 2005 01:40pm | #23

      If you are using OSI quad caulk, that is a big plus right there.   It does need to go into the gaps though - not just smeared on the surface.

      For those of you who are not familiar with OSI Quad, it is one of those new generation caulks that stays extremely flexable like silicone but is very paintable.  Might be polyurethane or smillar.  It is way more adhesive than silicone.  Costs ~$6 a tube I think!  Hard to work with though...   Matt

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