Replies

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 09, 2002 03:12am | #1

   duh, yeah.. there's a lot of experience with FC.. but could you kinda refocus yur question  ?

   say.. maybe a little background on what you're trying to do.. whata you want to know.. which part of the book you haven't read ?

   Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   UrseeP | Apr 09, 2002 04:16am | #2

   Mike -

   Yes.  Let me give you some background.  We are building a new house. Actually, we have a builder and he priced cedar and vinyl (Cedar Impressions) for us.  Real cedar is a bit too costly for us and I'm not crazy about staining every 5 years.  And the best vinyl we are not crazy about - looks too fake out of place on our rustic lot.  So I'm now thinking about fiber-cement may be a nice alternative.  But my father in-law says that we should not go with anything that has not been proven over a long period of time.  He sites when asbestos and gypsum were once the best great siding products that failed over the long haul.  I wonder if fiber-cement is in this category...  Any reasons why it will not have the same fate?

   Ted

2. 
   UrseeP | Apr 09, 2002 04:19am | #3

   .. I meant masonite .. not gypsum.

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 09, 2002 04:51am | #4

   urseep... fibercement is the follow-on to asbestos cement.. which never failed..and it did like paint.. the problem with asbestos cement was it was never developed into an attractive siding.. and of course.. it had asbestos in it..

    fiber cement has ABOUT a twenty year history  ( maybe longer.. , i haven't looked it up lately)  especially in Australia..

    it is a very attractive siding.. and goes well with lots of architectural styles.. it loves paint..in some parts of the country.. painters are giving lifetime warranties on their work..

   fibercement clapboards can be painted or stained for a natural look ..we do a lot of red cedar shngles.. but my favorite siding is fibercement clapboards... if i were doing my house today , i'd be using fibercement clapboards.. 16 years ago we put on Atlantic White Cedar: STK..but it needs it's 3d paint job...ho .. hummm..

   it costs more than vinyl siding.. but less than red cedar shinglesMike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   desirednam4 | Apr 09, 2002 05:13am | #5

   I have used FC also.... I like it.. One point... Paint it when temps will stay above 50 degrees nights... Best to paint it summers only in my neck of the woods. Our evenings in the Fall are very dewy and cold early.. and the cement siding cools very quickly compared to wood.

   With labor... FC will not cost less than Cedar to install but will hold paint much longer before recoat.  Long term... it's a better product than wood in most uses.

   Lakeside...On the mountain, near the stream,
   aj 
   Builder of Fine Homes & Tennis Courts
   And featuring; Great Camps of the Adirondacks

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 09, 2002 05:18am | #6

   aj.. where were u at JLC-Live ?

    & y haven't  u sent recko his do-re-me ?Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   desirednam4 | Apr 09, 2002 10:09pm | #7

   Mike.,... Me can't read...I see May 10... Now I see I missed it!

   Frenetic... definition...aj as of April 1st annually!

   Going to and fro far and near the stream,,,

   Reckos.... Maybe... just maybe.Lakeside...On the mountain, near the stream,aj Builder of Fine Homes & Tennis CourtsAnd featuring; Great Camps of the Adirondacks

1. 
   Mongo | Apr 09, 2002 11:08pm | #8

   Opinions wanted...

   How does a fiber cement (claps) addition blend with a real cedar clap house? Existing claps in excellent shape.

   No boards will be comingled on the same wall...they'd only meet at an inside corner w an inside corner board to separate them.

   Finish would be a new coat of solid-stain for the entire house, new fc and old wood claps.

   Does the fc grain look acceptable (visually) when next to real cedar?

   Will the different butt thicknesses be apparent or visually jarring...or unnoticeable?

   Thanks, Mongo

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 09, 2002 11:39pm | #9

   an opinion... mine... if you get the exposure and the coursing to match.. there will be very little difference.. especially with solid stain..

   I like the wood grain of Certainteed Weatherboards better than hardie or any of the others..we have installed  the 6.5 at a 4" exposure.. (normal exposure is 5")  so it can be done .. that was the project i put up on the old board this past fall.. on the 1670 cape cod

   at JLC Live last week i saw Ceratinteed with a wood grain stain that looked just like real clear finish wood.. California company, naturally...it was an acrylic stain in two coats..it had to be prestained though   (either factory or field ) because the finish had to be applied horizontally so it would fill and dry in the grain detail..Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   Mongo | Apr 11, 2002 08:59am | #10

   Thanks for the reply, Mike.

   Mongo

3. 
   jimblodgett | Apr 12, 2002 12:30am | #11

   A couple years ago I put a 2 story addition on a building that had real thin cedar bevel siding from around 1900, 5" to the weather. We used 2x2 inside corner boards and smooth Hardi plank siding on the addition and I can't tell the difference from 20 feet.

   I think you raise a valid question with 5/8 butt or thicker though, Mongo. You will definately get a different shadow line with fc siding because of it's thickness.

   I recently got samples from Superdeck Products of a stain they make for fc siding that simulates the look of real wood. Looks great. I plan to use it on the house we're remodelling right now. I got application instructions for prestaining, like Mike said, or after the siding is on the wall, which I figure will be a lot easier when it needs to be restained <g>. Here's the web address on the propaganda they sent me - http://www.superdeck.com/masonsselect.

4. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 12, 2002 12:40am | #12

   jim.. if you use the 6.5" and install it at 4" exposure.. it kicks the angle and you wind up with the same  butt dimension as a 5/8" cedar clap..  well , almost ..

   well kinda...

   well , anyways.. u can't tell from my house... hah, hah, hahMike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

5. 
   Mongo | Apr 12, 2002 11:33pm | #13

   Ah...you'z guyz...

   Thanks jb...

   Mike...you crack me up sometimes...

   The differing butt thicknesses would be my biggest gripe. It may be time for a mockup. Or it may be time to just order more cedar.

   Thanks again.

   Mongo

6. 
   ikeeptryin | Apr 13, 2002 04:16pm | #17

   Regarding the staining of fc siding... I'm somewhat familiar w/Hardi brand and its my understanding that although it is extremely moisture resistant, it does need to be painted.  As there is a definite protection difference between stain and paint, how would staining be viewed as a suitable finish for fc siding?

7. 
   jimblodgett | Apr 13, 2002 04:46pm | #18

   Good question. The sample board I stained with it skinned over pretty well. In the instructions they recommend applying it 6 mils thick, so maybe that's part of the answer to your question, but I'm not sure how to measure thickness like that. Maybe painters have a tool?

   I was just really happy with the appearance. I was worried it would be too consistant in tone, unlike the many variations you see in real wood after it's stained. But it looks good, at least in a small sample. Good enough that I'm gonna try it on a large surface.

   I agree with Mike about blind nailing with coil roofing gun. I always try to nail into studs, too. For just the occasional siding job those electric shears at the rental yard work surprisingly well - much quicker than I would have thought. But if you're gonna do a lot of it, that dedicated saw and a vacumn sounds like a real good system. That dust is baddddd.

8. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 13, 2002 05:05pm | #19

   greg.. the stain i saw at JLC_Live was an acrylic stain...it was applied to Primed fibercement..

   the application had to be either factory two coat.. or field two coat.. and the plank had to be flat and left flat until the finish set...

    it was extremely abrasive resistent.. and it looked like a good long term application.. i would guess that it would be more susceptible to UV than solid color..

   i'll look up the mfr's specs  if you're interested...to me  ( who happen to love painted clapboard ).. this process was a good one for those customers who wanted the "natural finish" wood clapboard look...  like say  a clear finish over mahogany claps...Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

9. 
   caseyr | Apr 24, 2002 04:43am | #20

   Mike -

   What nails do you use with the N65 coil nailer? 

10. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 24, 2002 06:06pm | #21

    casey.. sorry i didn't see this before..

     we use mostly bostich nails...and for any exposed work we use SS. 4d, 5d, 6d & 8d...

    for Red Cedar shingles we get a nice 4d galv. box nail.. i forget who's nail it is.. maybe stallion.. and then we switch to SS. for the exposed.. like under windows, etc..Mike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

11. 
    jimblodgett | Apr 24, 2002 07:55pm | #22

    Mike - those stainless steel nails, can you get them with colored heads, do you paint them, are they shiners...?

12. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 24, 2002 08:16pm | #23

    they've got the waffle head.. but yup, they're shiners..they hold paint well..and tehy nail flush with the hardboard trim  we use ... GP PrimeTrim

    kind of the lesser of 2 evils... on RC.. we'd get some staining from even HD Galv... of course, with Fibercement.. we're almost 100% blind nailing with our roofing coil gunsMike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

13. 
    KenHill3 | Apr 24, 2002 09:01pm | #24

    Hiya, Mike-

    I agree 100% with the coil roofer for blind nailing on FC. The Hardie jobs I've done always have been with roofing nails- seems to best satisfy the installation specs for the nail head to be snug to the FC surface, with no countersinking or breaking of the surface. Also the big nail head. Of course, ya gotta set the gun depth as good as possible. I've worked with a couple guys who've just started banging away blowing through the stuff and I've had to take the gun away from them. And on smaller jobs I've usually just hand-banged anyway.

    Another thing would be nail length. Seems that 1 1/2" is the BARE minimum. That would be 1/4" FC + 1/2" sheathing + 3/4" stud penetration. Always thought that 3/4" penetration was a bit skimpy, but maybe I'm concerned unnecessarily. Even bought 1 3/4" coil nails once, only to find that they fit none of our guns. Hand bangers usually 1 3/4" or 2".

    Thoughts on the above, Mike?

    Thanks, Ken Hill

14. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 24, 2002 09:44pm | #25

    ken.. i'll check my guns... my roofers are hitachi & bostichMike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

15. 
    River19 | Apr 24, 2002 11:00pm | #27

    Mike -

    This summer I will be installing new prefinished cedar claps on my own house.  I will be using SS nails through my gun but the finish is probably going to be a Sherwin Williams solid color stain.  Will this stick to the nail heads to get rid of the bright nail heads?

    Thanks

    SJ

    Know a little about alot and alot about little.

    Edited 4/24/2002 4:02:05 PM ET by Steve Joyce

16. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 25, 2002 04:48am | #28

    there's some oil from the mfrg and from the gun.. so if you let the nails weather a little it should be fine..

    we usually paint right away and don't pay any attention if one or two nails on a side "shine"..but all in  all, the paint will stick...

    you need a good gun with an adjustable nose so you don't overdrive.... if you are going to overdrive, then you'll have to go back and prime, fill, & paint...

    traditionally , this is how it was done anyways.. setting, priming, putty, prime, paint.. but most now just nail flush & paint...Mike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

17. 
    River19 | Apr 25, 2002 03:14pm | #29

    Thanks Mike

    I'm actually going with a factory applied finish from Michigan Prestain.  Two coats primer on all six sides then two coats finish on the exposed side.  So I am hoping to nail flush and just restain the areas around the nail heads.  We'll see how it goes. 

    I was planning on using my FR350 with the SS ring shanks.  I don't really see any problem with using the PC gun for this.  Of course this is the one gun I sort of skimped on (hey it was on sale for $160 !). 

    Any thoughts?

    SJ

    Know a little about alot and alot about little.

18. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 26, 2002 12:27am | #30

    yes.. what is the size of your plank.. what exposure will you use.... & why aren't you going to blindnail ?Mike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

19. 
    River19 | Apr 26, 2002 03:30pm | #31

    Mike - The planks are going to be either 5" or 6" rabbited bevel.  The 5" has 4" to the weather and 6" has 4 3/4" to the weather.  I really hadn't given blind nailing a thought.....obviously I should.  I am impressed with the product put out by this company so far.  Prices are competitive too.

    Thanks

    SJ

    Know a little about alot and alot about little.

20. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 26, 2002 11:04pm | #32

    steve: our 1st FC job was about 4 years ago & i was concerned about the claps flappin in the breeze, so we face nailed them with SS . nails....

    then we switched to blind nailing & i like that even better... you can use either a roofing gun or a sidewall coil nailer...keep some SS. nails around  for teh little areas that still require face nail.. like under windows , etc.

    it is my impression that most of the installers of FC, who specialize in FC ,  are using blind nailing...

    BTW.... i think the factory finish is an excellent choice..Mike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

21. 
    River19 | Apr 27, 2002 05:14am | #33

    Thanks Mike for information

    Some day I will try FC but for my own house it is the pre-finished cedar for me.  Is there any disadvantage of using my framing nailer....if go buy a fourth gun my fiance' will clobber me ;-)

    I have found good deals on SS nails roughly 8d for my stick nailer. 

    I definately think the extra money for the factory finish is teh way to go.  Two coats prime on all six sides and two coats finish on the exposed for maybe an extra $13-1600 for the job (only about 17-18 square).....please it is a no brainer.

    SJ

    Know a little about alot and alot about little.

22. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 27, 2002 06:39am | #34

    steve.. for a premium product like pre-finished red cedar claps... if you don't have a sidewall coil nailer with an adjustable nose.. then i would hand nail..

    try Maze nails and get their SS. siding nails witha waffle head...i wouldn't use an 8d nail...too big ..

     and your gun is too aggressive..it'll split a lot of claps..the clap should be nailed on the butt  JUST ABOVE the top of the clap it is covering...

    so, on a traditional 1/2  x 6 clap... ( which measures 1/2 x 5 1/2 ) 

     you nail exactly 1 3/4 above the butt which just clears the lower clap by 1/4 ".  So the clap has only one nail and can expand and contract without splitting..

     a lot of inexperienced sidewallers will tell you to nail low on the butt, but they're wrong..their claps will have a lot of splits after a full season..don't overdrive or you'll split...

    but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

23. 
    ScottMatson | Apr 27, 2002 03:15pm | #35

    Steve,

    forget about your framing nailer. Rent a siding nailer and follow Mike's suggestions.

    Mike,

    Have you found that Makita to be handy for other applications, like cutting indoors in a remodeling situation to minimize cleanup? I'm seeing some justification for buying the thing, just need a little help?

24. 
    xMikeSmith | Apr 27, 2002 11:54pm | #37

    it's a great saw for anything dirty... 2 problems.. you gotta drag the vacumn hose &  you can't see the blade because of  the shroud... but  witha cut-off guide, like a speed square, that's not a problemMike Smith

    Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

25. 
    Jer | Jun 03, 2006 02:00pm | #38

    The shears are more than worth the investment. You can use them on 1/2" fiber cement board for the bathrooms. They are clean, no dust, just curls that drop to the ground.
    My buddy and I sided a large house over the winter in the prefinished Hardee with Azak trim, not beginners stuff as there was dormers, panels and crown (all Azak) to install. Blind nail roofers and where we had to ss finish on the exposed. Hardee makes a colored paint and caulk to whatever color you choose for filler, quite accurate by the way. After the Azak was painted it was the jewel of the neighborhood and I became a believer.

26. 
    River19 | Apr 27, 2002 04:47pm | #36

    Thanks Mike & MD

    A buddy at work has the Bostich Coil nailer....I can borrow that for the siding.  Or Maybe I'll Look for a good deal on one.....hey what's another $200 in the project budget!!!

    Mike thanks for the tips on the nailing.  Siding is one of the last things I have to tackle.

    How's the price on FC compared to Cedar?  I'm looking at about $0.60 to $0.90/linear foot for the prefinished cedar.

    BTW any experience with GP Primetrim?

    SJ

    Know a little about alot and alot about little.

27. 
    jimblodgett | Apr 24, 2002 10:45pm | #26

    My Makita coil roofing gun shoots 1+3/4" nails, but I agree that's barely adequate. Definately would rather have 2 inchers (6d), at least.

    Edited 4/24/2002 3:47:41 PM ET by jim blodgett

3. 
   FrankB89 | Apr 13, 2002 03:54am | #14

   I agree with the comments so far posted.  If you're doing it yourself, buy an electric shear to cut it with. 

   So far, I've hand nailed it all which is a booger, but if the sheathing beneath has voids or knotholes, it's hard to maintain even, flush nail heads.  I would appreciate any enlightenment in the nailing department!

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 13, 2002 04:02am | #15

   we use an N65 coil siding gun if we're face nailing... or a roofing gun if we're blind nailing..  and the makita fibercement saw  hooked up to a Fein auto-on vacumn for cutting...Mike Smith

   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   FrankB89 | Apr 13, 2002 04:20am | #16

   Thanks for the nailing tip.

   I did my first couple of siding jobs using a beater sidewinder and a plank cutter blade and a masonry blade.  I'd look like the Pillsbury Doe Boy at end-of-day.  I considered the Makita saw and was tempted.  Maybe someday...