Happy Holidays, all!
Wondered if anyone had a recommedation for a really good product to fill nail holes in exterior trim before prime/paint. Looking for something that won’t shrink, and will hold a long time.
Appreciate any thoughts.
Brian
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Replies
bondo.
glazing putty
both work well.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Similar to Bondo.
Minwax High Performance Wood Filler.
Readily available at any lumber yard or big box.
Although the Bondo might be cheaper.
I have used both Bondo and the Minwax product. I would bet that Bondo makes the Minwax stuff as a private label product.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
there are a half dozen brands of automotive two part filler. any will work on house parts
The minwax has a bit more of a wood grain colour and texture and that is what we normally use, but the bondo auto body kinds are cheaper
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I didn't think there was any texture difference. And I figured the color was tan/brown so it looks more like the wood filler HO's are expecting.
I agree that Abatron is a good product, but it can be difficult to find.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
yep i agree as far as quick accessability, i order through the internet . two days i up to my wrist in the stuff........"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Smooth elastomeric stucco patch. I say "smooth" because regular stucco patch had vermiculite (or similar) to simulate sand. No shrinkage and dries like rubber, paintable, will expand and contract with the wood, but not absorb moisture..
and a happy holidays to you ,
abatron wood epox two part a-b, theres no better. although pricey.
"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 12/25/2004 2:41 pm ET by the bear
You know, one of the better carps I know was working me yesterday on my own house, and he mentioned the wood epox as an option to repair a couple of broken 2" historical sill horns. (Ya gotta love the after effects of aluminum siding... such a shame). He said it would be the best way to go b/c you could really shape it. What do you think? I've seen the ads in JLC, but never considered._____________________________HomeBase__________________________ LLC
I've used quite a bit of fiberglass reinforced auto body filler to repair exterior wood over the years. Stuff holds up great, but there's one caveat....especially with larger fills. The wood moves more than the filler does when exposed to seasonal changes in humidity and exposure to other sources of moisture, such as rain. That seems to always result in the eventual development of a fissure at the joint or seam between the two materials. Water now has a path to enter and soak the wood once again. The wider/larger the fill, the greater the odds that this crack will develop.And so, what I've been doing for a quite a while now is to create a narrow gap between the two at installation time and then fill that gap with PL polyurethane caulk. Make a gasket, basically. The flexibility and tenacious grip of the poly caulk seems quite able to absorb this differential in movement and hence no more problems with those little water-emitting fissures. In the instance of replacing those horns I would form out the front side, the bottom and the end with custom cut pieces of ply and/or solid wood, rubbed down well with paraffin and then stapled or bradded in place. I'd also prefer to place something between the back edge of the horn and the house to prevent bonding there. A piece of saran wrap, wax paper or similar, works well for this. Forgot to say….I'd run a couple of screws into the remaining end of the sill right off the bat, leaving those project out into the horn area for reinforcement and anchoring.Fill from the top, trying to avoid the creation of any voids and strike off. Then pay attention and as soon as the filler is firm enough to support itself against gravity (10 minutes, maybe …depending), carefully take the forms off and create the needed gap. Lots of different tools you could use here, but if you caught it in time, a sharp utility knife will easily do the deed. The gap doesn't really need to be the entire depth of the fill in this instance and only needs to be maybe a 1/8" wide. When filler is fully set, do any needed sanding, fill gap with poly caulk, strike it off, prime and paint when caulk is ready.In some fill situations, I just slide a piece of thin material that's paraffined or saran-wrapped in before the filler is placed and just yank it after the fact to create the gap. But in this instance, it's probably easier and quicker to carve out the material. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I do the opposite, instead of using the slip joint and caulk, I drill a series of holes into the old material, use consolidator to kick the wood firm, and make sure the patch material gets worked tight into the holes for grip
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That sounds like a good strategy, too. I might still (where appropriate) project those rerods (screws) into the fill area for insurance though. Belt and suspenders.Any approach that gives that repair/replacement a long life expectancy gets a thumbs-up from me.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
along those lines - longevity,
You mentioned using a dutchman sometimes. When we do that the patch always shows up as a patch, given differing grain etc. so we skim over the joint with the bondo and sand to make it seamless and decrease odds of water finding the seam
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Piffin, I was just looking at the Abatron material online. They don't mention the expansion/contraction differential that Gold mentioned in his post, but it makes sense based the different properties of the materials.
Just out of curiousity, have you noticed the same tendecy for the epoxy and original wood to develop a fissure over time? Maybe the consolidator helps in that regard. Curious what your experiece has been._____________________________HomeBase__________________________ LLC
Homebase,I'm not Piffin (but then again, very few get to be Piffin-LOL), but I've done a fair bit of epoxy repairs to exterior wood, and some Bondo work and rework, too. I use West System, but the idea/product is like Abatron. Using consolidant, the joint stays good indefinitely. Bondo tends to separate. I like Bondo, but not for wood out in the weather. Epoxy is the more permanent repair, in my experience. Using screws as re-rod is a good trick, provided you don't need to machine that section later on.Heat gun to warm/dry the joint, do the epoxy, then tent it and put a lamp on it to keep it warm while curing. Be careful to not start a fire.Bill
bill... we use all of the above..
bondo.. epoxy.. .. depends on the problem.. with the epoxy.. we too use west system.. different formulations for faster /slower set.... higher/ lower working temps..
if it's a fill .. we also use micro-balloons with the west system.. to turn it into a pasteMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hi, Mike,I like the microballoons because I can carve the final product. They also help reduce the exotherm in warm weather, when 206 kicks too fast in the dense mixes. A great trick in Colorado was to use graphite on sills in the sunlight to raise the temp for cure. It also gives a UV block under the paint.be having fun with epoxy,
Bill
Depending on the situation, I have used sawdust from the sandeer bag for filler with West
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if it worked for Trex... why not you , right ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
LOL
I actually got the idea from some of West's literature, I think. Either that, or an article in one of these trade journals years ago. I use the beads for exterior and more sawdust interior
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friend of mine used Baby Powder for filler to thicken the epoxy when he was building his boat
is it still afloat?
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As a matter of fact it is.
It was built just outside of Minneapolis MN and floated down the Mississippi. Spent a couple years in the gulf and has been bobing around the Florida keys for the last five or six years. Built from a plan from Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding book - I believe.
II have not sen any separation in work I've done up to five years back.
The consolidator and the holes in old wood probably do fight that drift action. The consolidator also seals up the dust that migfht exist between also that could hurt a bond
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another nod for west systems"expectations are premeditated resentments"
i'm a schill for the stuff, i would have to see your application specifically. but the stuff has the consistency of bread dough/marshmallow fluff. i mix it up in my hand real well(wear gloves) let it sit for 3 to 5 minutes ( to give it time to react with each other)than apply ,sometimes in multi-layers if the application so warrants. it does everything it say's shape's, sand's. has compression structural capabilities, when used in unison with the consolident , there'sa hint with that stuff mix, let it sit for ten minutes mix it well again then brush it on.it hardens up in 12-18 hours dependin on the temp( i wait 24), the consolident also helps in the bonding process with the epox. all this info is included with the directions. it comes in pint's so the initial cost is not that bad..... hell give it try, and you'll join the ranks.
min-wax is good stuff as is bondo, for quick efficient applications. but .....i have seen some problems with it.moisture if not taken down to a bare minimum around the space being filled the stuff doesnt bond that well. this is not any new news , i dont wait to fill the holes, this is speaking exterior wise. anything over the size of a nickle , out comes the abatron. this is all my personal preference. i do mostly restoration work. and i always keep the option of dutching in with chisel's, a few carving tools ,and a foredom carving mill . i'm not ready to carve duck decoy's . but i have some pretty good days........ merry christmas......bear.
"expectations are premeditated resentments"Edited 12/25/2004 8:13 pm ET by the bearEdited 12/25/2004 8:16 pm ET by the bear
Edited 12/25/2004 8:29 pm ET by the bear
i just read the post above mine take a peak....... some great info."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 12/25/2004 8:36 pm ET by the bear
I agree, Bear, and thanks everyone. I had heard good things about the minwax product, as well, so will probably go with that for the nail holes, and give the abatron a shot for sill horns.
What do you guys think on timing? I'm in the suburbs of Boston, and like a lot of you guys I'm heading into the dead of winter. I've been scrambling to get weather tight, and will be hanging clap today/tomorrow. Anyway, suffice to say I ain't painting until spring (windows/clap are pre-primed, thankfully, though I know that doesn't offer much protection). Would you wait on the filler until I'm about to paint? I'm thinking wait for a good stretch of dry weather above 50 degrees and go for it then.
Active day on Breaktime yesterday. Glad to know I'm not the only one passing xmas day thinking and talking about building!
Brian
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Edited 12/26/2004 8:28 am ET by homebaseboston
I think Abatron has a cold temp formula. making sure the wood is consolidated and dry is the big thing. Cold just slows the reaction down, but I keep product indoors to mix and then head out the door to apply. I have used a heat gun to be sure the wood at point of connection is dry and warm.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good grief everybody, the man's talking about nail holes, not rot restoration....Dap painters putty works just fine......
See post 10 of this thread."You know, one of the better carps I know was working me yesterday on my own house, and he mentioned the wood epox as an option to repair a couple of broken 2" historical sill horns. (Ya gotta love the after effects of aluminum siding... such a shame). He said it would be the best way to go b/c you could really shape it. What do you think? I've seen the ads in JLC, but never considered."Rebuild/replacement of missing sill horns. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
true enough, but he started out asking about nail holes......
and now we have progressed. wanna be progressive or regressive?Thing is, it's all tied together. There will be less rot to repair when things are done best to begin with. Nothing wrong with painter's putty for a small hole fill
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I was commenting more on the amount of digression that goes on....IMHO using Bondo, or even the one part hardening fillers, for nail holes, is just plain nuts....way to much sanding required...
We use it a lot and no more sanding is required really. hit it smooth wqith the knife when applying soft and then a touch with the orbital. Even if hand sanding, the smooth application is the trick - don't leave that much to be sanded. The extra time we find involved is in the mixing and cleaning tools.
blemishes disappear. Softer fillers alwyas leave telltale divots.
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Actually, I have to say this thread has been extremely helpful. The divots were, primariliy, what I was hoping to avoid... or more specifically "shrinkage". The info on the sills was a big added bonus b/c on my own house -- when I get around to it -- I'll have a lot of old broken sill horns to replace.
Brian
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Edited 1/2/2005 11:39 am ET by homebaseboston
Most of the good threads here have bonus information eventually. There have been some great tips and pieces of info that I have learned that didn't come close to pertaining to the origianal questions, but came twenty or thirty posts along
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reshape you can..
or mold it...
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