We finally started a fun house. This one has wall heights all over the place, 9’ 11’, 14’ then parts are vaulted. The roof will be 12-12 and way up there. Above the 9’ walls the ridge will be 18’ 6†plus heelstand!! We’ll be wearing harnesses for sure J
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Here are some pics. I’m going to try and update a few times a week as the framing goes. Hopefully we’ll get to do some sort of trick ceilings like coves or barrels or both
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The first few pics are of the floor finally done. This house is about 2600 sq and a single story so it’s spread out. There were just two of us working on it and we have to have an underfloor inspection now before we sheathe, so that throws scheduling off. We have to be done with the floor framing completely before they will pass the inspection. Of course, they never tell us when they’ll be out, so we fail the first time usually. We didn’t have the full crew until the wall framing, so we were a little slower than normal. Took parts of 3 days to get the floor sheathed and lines snapped L Jasen thought he’d be funny and have his arm sticking thru the floor. J
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Wall framing day 1
This pic is in the morning. That stack of sheathing at the bottom is 10’ 7/16†osb so we can go from mudsill to the top of the wall. Jasen is getting ready to nail off the sheathing with Bostich Sheather Plus nails. That is a shearwall so it has to be done perfectly and he is the self proclaimed “King of the Shear Nailersâ€. We always use a router to cut openings in a sheathed wall. http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/94696175.jpg
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Wall framing day 1 afternoon
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We did really well yesterday. The wall in the back is 9’ then 15’ 10†then 9’. The 12-12 rafters will land on the 9’ walls and then rafters will go from that 15’10†wall at a 4-12 and die into the 12-12 roof. The tall wall there on the right is 14’ high and will be the dining room. All sheathed walls are shearwalls blocked at 10’ high for fireblocking & panel edge blocking. A few walls start as outside walls and come inside the house. We have to sheathe the entire wall through to the inside. Below them are the concrete stemwalls. We’ll have to drill the bottom plate and run allthread down to coupler nuts that attach to the big bolts set in the concrete.
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<!—->Wall framing day 2 afternoon
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I took this pic from about 30’ up in the platform about 90 minuts ago. You can see the 14’ walls in the front. There will be one running front to back to divide that space into the foyer and dining room. Then below that glulam will be come columns and arches. The right side octagon bay will all be 11’. We’ll frame the walls that divide that space, kitchen and nook, from the great room in the middle of the house and the bedrooms on the right. You can see the layout stick in the background. That thing is a great tool to speed up layout. Last pic is of Jasen driving the forklift http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/94696326.jpg
Edited 4/28/2005 8:27 pm ET by TIMUHLER
Edited 4/28/2005 8:28 pm ET by TIMUHLER
Replies
Today was a good day. It rained all day long, but we got all the walls up, plumb and lined and then framed and sheathed the garage. Monday, we'll finish up the sheathing, plumb and align the garage walls, and then layout for the roof. Should start the roof Tuesday and I can't wait.
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Nice clean work! I also like the backdrop (all them trees). What is the price tag on the finished house? We also use the same IR Fork, but we don't have the out riggers on the front.
Post more photos, very intersting!
Thanks. I think the price will be around $550k. The prices around here keep creeping up, so it's hard to tell, but that should be fairly close.
How do you like the IR? Ours is a 2002 VR1056 with about 900 hours. Its about 2 months old for us :-)
I don't even know how to frame something simple as a lawn mower shed let alone something a complicated as what your doing.
Keep the pictures coming. I am enjoying this.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Tim, I've got to say, you are like an online mentor to this "framing contractor apprentice." Nice work! If I ever decide to vacation out West, my employees and I are coming to your job.
We got the VR 6428 2001. Its been a good piece of equipment, seat was the first thing that had to be replaced. I think the big thing is, there has been to many different drivers using it. Everybody on the job sites uses it. But just like a Timex, it takes a licking but keeps on ticking!
Boomed up about 6sqs. of roofing for the roofer a few weeks back & the pucker factor was high!
We also have a Case XT 70 skid with forks for moving the small stuff.
Nice picture! Whereabouts was that taken? What's the reach on your IR? The VR 1056 will go 56' up and 42' out with the outriggers down. I've only sent the boom up that high once, in the middle of the street where it was level and there was nothing on those forks. I get scared sending it up that high :-)
It rained a good part of the day, but we finished all the sheathing we could, got some blocking out of the way and then started rolling ceiling joists. Our roof load comes tomorrow and we'll probably start cutting. I'm not sure yet if we'll stack anything. It would be nice to just cut and then start stacking when we can get a lot done at once since that makes people driving by do a double take :-)
Here is a pic of the work we did today.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95209057.jpg
Back again, Our IR will go about 25'-30' we also have a jib for setting trusses. Were outside Denver! This has been one wet spring, so were doing it like they do in the NW. Mud everywhere, many foundations in place still needing backfill when we get a dry spell.
Keep up the good work. If we were'nt so behind, I would like to post the progress of 1 of our buildings from start to rough inspections. Maybe in a few weeks.
Tim, I read your post on Saturday and I'm still smiling. In an industry where so many people are so unhappy, it's nice to be reminded that some days are still fun and things can go well. It makes me remember what I like about swinging a hammer. (We won't talk about the other 350 days of the year, when it all stinks!)
Good luck with your project, though it doesn't seem like you'll need much of it with your crew.
Don
Today we started the roof framing :-) We didn't get that much done, but we never do the first day. It usually takes part of the day to get organized and into the swing of things. We cut and stacked on section and then rolled ceiling joists to finish the day. Tomorrow it's supposed to rain, so we'll see how much we get done.
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Those two hips and the valley were about 26' to the tail 1 3/4 x 14" lvl. They were not light :-)
Nice work!! It's nice to see the start of a roof going together like that. Looking forward to the coming pics. I was about to inquire about the 2X as floor joists, the came to the next post about the roof. Will there be attic floors or bonus rooms?
Again, nice work.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Today was a good day, I didn't have to use my AK . . . . . Ice Cube
Well, today was really a good day. The weather was weird, but we got a lot done. I took a bunch of pics today. I'm the geek in the red shirt and hat ;-) I got some pics of Jasen using the Headcutter and he took some of me using the Bigfoot. I just put a new Diablo blade in the Bigfoot and man is it cutting nice. Here are the pics
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Looking Good! You guys ever use trusses in your neck the Woods? Seems it would be cheaper & faster if that was a truss roof. Not much hand cut roofs in this area anymore.
The house across the street is a 10-12 roof (you can see it in one of the first pics I posted) and the framer was talking to us today about it.
If we get done with the roof framing on Friday (not including the octagon hips and jacks) then that will make 4 days roof framing, and then probably 2 to finish and sheathe. I don't think that's too bad, but I've only done hip trusses one time and it took forever.
How long do you thing it would take to roll trusses on this? Here is the roof plan minus a broken hip and some other "stuff" " : -) http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7154567/92953903.jpg
oh yeah, next time we do this house (if) we will redesign it so we can get into the attic. Above the garage would be perfect for a bonus room. Above the bedroom too on the right. It's insane how much room is up there.
edit again,
part of the reason we stick frame is so we have flexibility when it comes to framing the ceilings. So far, our trim guy will probably do a coffer, we'll do a hip style trey or whatever those mansard style ceilings are and I think we'll get to frame a larger cove ceiling in the entry.
Edited 5/4/2005 10:51 pm ET by TIMUHLER
Edited 5/4/2005 10:53 pm ET by TIMUHLER
Man that one cut up SOB! I would say a crew of 5 could do that in 4 hard days with trusses. 2 days to set with one day to boom. 2 days to sheet. Next 5plex we do I will post the truss & roof decking.
The present crew sets all in 2 days (4-5hrs of crane time) for the trusses. 2 days to sheet. Not near as cut up as what you got. 300+ sheets of osb. 2 trusses @ the party wall (between each unit). Each party wall truss has 5/8" rock on both sides, that also gets fire taped. I woud guess we have 6,800 sq.ft in area covered by the trusses including garages, 8 in 12 pitch
I would bet a truss system for a roof like you have , would have a lot of truss web bracing that would add an extra 10-12 man hrs after trusses were set & sheet.
If its not to much to ask, what is the going rate for framing in your area per sq.ft? The crews doing our work get about $3.50 per ft. This is for Townhomes, and most of the crews come from South of the Border.
You could get $8-$10 per ft here for the same type of house your framing presently .
Keep up the Good work, its nice to see a roof like that!
You know, I don't know what the going rate is right now. We are all hourly. I actually work for my dad. He's been a GC since the late 70s and he always had hourly framers. He used to have 4 or 5 crews in the 80s. We try and do some subbing, but we can't get anything but losers around here. We just subbed the framing on a house and there is a giant glulam sitting in the yard that the framer cut too short, he didn't say anything to us. They didn't stack their floor joists over studs. In fact on the first floor, the studs land between the floor joists, and then the upper floor same thing. Just stupidity.
Last I heard, the avg $/ft was around 4-4.50 and a friend who is a framing sub said the builder they frame for pays 1.50/ft more for stick framing. I'll try and find out for you.
Tim, that house looks like a typical house for roof trusses around here. It's impossible to give an accurate estimate about how long it would take to set them because there's a lot of variables involved. It could go anywhere from 4 hours to two days.
They build coffered ceilings, stepped ceilings, studios, vaulted...anything you want into those trusses.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Ya, but how much $? What we've found in our area is the service by many of the truss companys stinks. They are difficult to deal with, expensive and a pain. We used trusses on a house last Nov because the roof was just too big to stick frame (long rafter lengths) and they were supposed to send out 6-12 and they sent out 8-12 trusses. That meant they were piggy backed and it was just really difficult.
We've worked out our labor and materials, and almost always its a wash, so we stick frame. Then we are on our schedule. We may lose a day or two compared to trusses, but not usually. Many of the roofs we frame are cut up, but many aren't and those are fast when you gang cut. Of course, if we didn't have the forklift, then stick framing would take a lot longer.
I'll post pics of the ceilings when we do them and hopefully Mon will be the day we do the octagon sections.
edit,
The quality of trusses here isn't very good. We've had to shim simple gable stly garage trusses, 1" or more too many times. Half the time the webbing is hanging there because of the way the driver rigged his straps.
But if we were as good as you guys at setting trusses, then that's what we would probably do.
Edited 5/5/2005 9:19 am ET by TIMUHLER
Tim, if we could gang cut as fast as you, maybe we'd stop using the trusses too!
We're going to have to cut this roof that we're on and we'll use some of your gang cutting techiniques. I don't have any bigfeet or chainsaw attachments, so we'll have to compromise. I don't plan on doing more than one or two conventional roofs per year or per decade, so I don't feel any need to purchase tools that you use in your methods.
The quality of our trusses is vey high. I rarely see problems like you've described, but even if I do, I get to fix them at my full rate, so mistakes are profitable!
One thing I rarely see is house designs that would accomodate conventional framing. I'd guess that 90% of the house that we work on would be impossible to build using dimension lumber. The long spans and clear spaces dictate the use of trusses.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue,
I hope you have fun cutting rafters!!
How long of spans are you talking about? It's been awhile, but a few years ago we used 26' KD doug fir 2x12s and I'm tellin you I was tired packing those! We can get those without much trouble, but the homes we build don't usually have spaces that open. We try and redesign what we can so that we can stick frame. I have some Autocad experience so I can draw up our roof plans and size the beams without too much trouble, then give them to our designer who will then draw them "professionaly" and then if the house needs engineering, the engineer will take a look at it and make sure everything is sized correctly and supported.
Tim, around here, 1 1/2 story homes are very popular. Usually, there is a bridge that uses us some of the volume space separating the foyer from the great room. That span is typically the entire house, front to back and often the rear wall is 10 or more. The front wall will be 18 or 19' tall. The ceiling will slope from the rear to the front, with some sort of flat ceiling above the foyer. It would be impossible to conventionally frame this setup without adding a significant amount of very high priced engineered lumber and beams.
Thirty and fourty foot open spans are not unusual. The largest span I remember had a forty foot "piggy"! The bottom span was probably 80'!. That was a commercial building though. We don't see those spans on residential dwellings but we do have a 10,000 sf set of plans to bid right now. I'm sure it will have some mammoth trusses and girders.
One of the additions I'm designing will need a 30 wall girder.
Most of the cut up houses have significant girders built in the roof system. The use of girders allows significant design flexibility in the first floor layout. Without girders, the lower floors would have to have transfer points for the 2nd floor roof loads. That would result in common areas chopped up to look like bedroom areas.
I don't know about having fun cutting rafters. The pile looks too big and I'm not really into cutting rafters. I've already been posturing to make Frank do it and I think he's taking the bait.
blue
Blue,
Those are huge spans. We never see anything quite that large. I understand what you are saying about the first floor, but honestly, it isn't that tough to trace the point loads down to the concrete. The house we are on for instance will have a glulam up in the attic that posts onto walls then down into the crawl. On top of that glulam a post will support the upper ridge.
I think it's like everything else, if you really want what a stick framed roof can get you, you will find a way to do it. We like it because we can do all kinds of ceilings that our competition can't because we have all that attic room.
We are getting a lot of comments as this one is going up. People in the area and other tradesman have been very complementary to us. It's been really good for us to hear that. A couple of houses close to us took a long time to build and so far at least one neighbor has commented on that. We have an ace though, and that is the forklift :-) The older gentleman that stopped by was really cool yesterday and the impression that a stick built roof gives is that someone skilled is building this house and it is being built by craftspersons. Now that may not be true, but if the customer has that impression, then what $ amount can you put on that?
Shorts? It was 21 degrees last teo mornings here. I'm lucky I had a pair of gloves!
Looks like those saws make nice, clean work of gang cuttin'.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Once it gets about 60° I'm in shorts. I get hot easily. Of course I tell that guys that's because I work so much harder :-)
It has been really muggy here because we get rain for 30 minutes then sunshine and 68°. Plus it's warm enough that wearing rain gear is hot, so I'll wear shorts inside my rain gear.
That Bosch 10 1/4" Bigfoot w/swingtable is a great saw. it is easy to work with bevels to 75° and is just a well made saw. I'm not a huge fan of the Bosch wormdrive, but this is a great saw. I hadn't changed the blade in that saw since I bought it last May or June and man what a difference. I didn't realize that the other blade was so dull.
The chainsaw has a full comp chisel tooth chain and it just eats lumber. 2x10 on a 12-12 doesn't slow it down at all. Just a little pressure to keep the saw moving forward and it pulls itself through. It's great firing up the chainsaw because the framers across the street turn and look :-)
Thanks for posting by the way.
Saw an 18 wheeler in our lumber yard in Yelm this morning that said it was from "Olalla", Tim. Said to the driver "where the help's Olalla?" He says between Port Orchard and Gig Harbor. Made me think of you and grin. In fact, he went so far as to ask me if I knew where Gig Harbor was. Must think us hillbillys don't get out much or something, huh?
Nice looking roof.
Hey, do you use that 10 foot osb a lot? I saw it for the first time a few months ago and the guy that owns our yard told me some of it is stamped "not for roof sheathing" or "for wall sheathing only". Do you know why that is? Geez, that sure would be nice on a roof.
Jim,
Ya I know where Ollala is. It was about 15 minutes from the street I grew up on and the junior high I went to included it so I got to know a lot of kids from out there.
What we started doing a few years back is if we are using 92 5/8" studs, then we use 9' OSB to get to the mudsill. If we use 104 5/8" studs, then we use 10'. Both the 9' and 10' OSB that we get say "not for roof sheathing". I was told awhile back that that had something to do with the strength axis. I'll try and find out today and let you know. About 4 years ago we were doing a house and hip to valley section of sheathing was too long for 8', but 10' sheets worked with angles on them. I got the bright idea of gang cutting 10' sheets so we wouldn't have to break them. That was the yellow edge "Ox" OSB. It didn't have that stamp then, but they do now. Maybe I wasn't the first guy to try it :-)
We framed for about a year in the Greater Denver area.
Those mornings during the winter where it was 30 below zero and with 5 feet of snow convinced me that I didn't want to stay another year.
We are finally getting there. Tomorrow we'll get it pretty much framed. Maybe a couple of hours on wed. I think it is really turning out to be very cool. Here's the pics as of the end of the day today.
The back rafters were 1 3/4" x 9 1/2" LVL. They were 26' 0 13/16" plu tail. Took some time getting them in :-)
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Tim
I'm sure Boss Hogg would disagree with me but I always like the look of a stick framed roof.
I don't do any framing but enjoy the pictures.
Doug
Tomorrow, we should be done roof framing. We got one of the octagons framed today and filled in a lot of jacks and then got setup to frame the front gable. Hopefully, we'll get the rest in tomorrow and then frame some of our interior shearwalls that have to go all the way up to between the rafters nailed to blocking that the roof sheathing nails to. So we may not get the roof sheathed this week by the time we do all that jazz. Also, we are going to put in a stairway to get up above the garage and frame a bonus room. That'll bump the sq to about 3200-3500
The octagon kicked my butt a little today. It didn't take long to cut and stack, but I was figuring something incorrectly and I think it is at the intersection at the ridge. I wasn't adjusting correctly, but the Bigfoot worked well. I didn't think we'd get to the bay today, or else I would have sat down and made sure I had all my numbers.
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One of the octy hips framed into a regular valley. That is intersting. We framed commons off the center of each wall with a double 45° cheek cut then framed the hips.
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Edit
The new Dave Matthews Band album came out today :-)
Edited 5/10/2005 7:15 pm ET by TIMUHLER
"The new Dave Matthews Band album came out today :-)"I was so dissapointed by the one single I've heard, "American Baby" that I didn't go out and buy it. I think I have all of their other albums, so that's quite a surprise.The pictures are great, I wish I could manage to do a job like that.
Thanks Jeff.
I thought the same thing about the album, but I listened to it at VH1.com and really really like it. I'm listening to it right now and I think it will be really good live. If you want, I can send you through yousendit.com a few of the songs.
I'll try your email and see if it works. Are you a big fan? If you are go to http://www.antsmarching.org and go to the forum. There is a thread called video clips something something and people have been posting fanshot video clips. I got one last week of a 20 min Two Step 2003 at the Gorge and I was there! I love that clip.
I preordered my disc and I'm a Warehouse member so I got the companion disc. It's got some great live stuff. There is a "Typical Situation" from the Gorge in Sept 2004 that is great and I was there on the grass :-)
Here is a link to "Sugar Will" It is a new song that isn't on the album, but is really really cool. http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0QOR3F9ERNU9K150SYUSPMWGW8
Two fork lifts on one job!!!!!! Thats soo cool!
I was wondering when that would be noticed :-) We bought the older one 3 years ago I think and then we bought the bigger one this year. We've been running more than one framing crew, and siding crews. No one was using the old one so we went and grabbed it. Drove it about 5 miles then used it to lift the long lvl rafters and used the platform with the newer platform up at the ridge instead of building scaffolding and taking it down.
Thanks for posting.
I really enjoy the looks of a clean stick frame. My hat's off to you and the crew for doing a good job and making us other framers proud.
Trusses are the way norm here, so stick framing is usually limited to "hard to design on the computer, label it 'field frame by others' and let someone else figger it out" compliments of the truss co, or overframing intersecting ridges together.
I framed a house this winter that had two 17' octagons on the back side. Of course the truss co. sent a package that were supposed to fit. I think I could have hand framed maybe not faster, but cleaner and less stressful. I'll admit, hand framing is fast becoming a lost art in this area. In my ten years, I have worked with only a handful of fellas who were really proficient in cutting a roof. Most of them learned it elsewhere like Cali or Colo and came back with it. Of course, they were "old schoolers"!
This is the trussed octagon I spoke of. 1 is the outside taken from just below the 11th tee of the country club. 2 is an interior of the trusses. The room is the master bed. Half octagon on the end of a vault. It still was fun to tie the center point of the vault into intersecting octo points. Actually looked good after drywall.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Hook,
Those pics look really good. That seems like a really pretty area to build in, although I'm sure the snow was tough to deal with.
We've always stick framed here as long as I've been old enough to help out. Years ago we trussed most everything. That was in the 80's when I was still in elementary school. The framer that showed me the ropes could stick frame and taught me the fundamentals, but he had a really weird way of figuring things. It wasn't until I started going to JLC forums that I learned that guys could actually calculate roofs and not stringline and measure them in :-)
I've been bugging guys like Joe Fusco, Joe Carola, Ken Drake, John Harman, Boyd Miller, Richard Birch and some other guys I can't think of right now for help on a lot of things over the last 3 years or so. Will Holladay's book goes with me everywhere and if I'm waiting somewhere, I'm reading. It's just been practice practice.
Pretty much everyone around here uses trusses. In this community we are framing this house in, I've seen less than 5 houses stick framed in the last 10 years. The ones that were done were outstanding and I have no idea who did them, but it looked clean. This house has attracted some attention by neighbors and other tradespersons (see how PC I am :-))
I would like to think that I'm "new school" about roofcutting. New in the sense that now there is so much roof framing info out there that it has really become easier to understand and the techniques keep getting refined and of course the Construction Master.
Thanks for posting the pics. Feel free to post pics in this thread anytime you want. I'm a sucker for framing pics. It's a great place for me to steal ideas and pretend I'm original :-)
We didn't finish today, but we will tomorrow :-) Here's a pic of what the house looks like from the house across the street.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96288896.jpg
Ut oh... is that a storm front moving in? Better get that sheathing up ;)
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
Zorg,
Where does your name come from. I knew a Zorg once who joined the circus and married the bearded lady.
ZORG! The sworn enemy of the Galactic alliance(AKA-All the sheet rockers that complain that there isn't enough backing when the is!)
DISCLAIMER: The statement therein does not intend to lead anyone to think that ZORG! or anyone mentioned herein really knows what they are talking about.
Edited 5/11/2005 11:22 pm ET by zorg
Zorg is obviously the sworn enemy of spelling his messages correctly. Good one!!
I love framing roofs and stairs, I think it is a lost art. keep up your great work. I have never tryed to gang cut rafters, but I like your ideas. I am a firm beliaver in cutting all rafters before they go up.I found a recipe for hips on a octagon hip is Pitch/13 on the framing square.I found this on a 100 year old book on the framing square that my grandfather had.
Thanks for your comments. The pitch/13 on the rafter square works for regular octagons, all sides equal. It doesn't work if the sides are not equal, ie 5' wall and 3' walls. Joe Carola showed me that. I find it easier to just convert to degrees. I make fewer mistakes that way.
On this bay, the back wall parallel with the back wall of the house was 5', but then 45 walls were 5'2" so the pitches were really close on all the walls. The octagons I've framed in the past would be more like the numbers I showed above.
I figured out my mistake that night. I was deducting incorrectly at the intersection at the ridge. I basically "inched" it.
We finished the roof framing yesterday :-) I think it took about 6 1/2 days to frame and according to the tile estimator, the square count is in the mid 40's. It's a big roof. We started the subfascia and fascia yesterday and finished most today including the ribbon on the wall for the closed soffits. We sheathed one side of the garage and then called it a week a little early. I don't have any pictures of the sheathing, but then again, who cares about the sheathing :-)?
You can see from the back, that the 5-12 roof lands on a glulam that spans the family room. I changed the pitch from 4-12 to just shy of a 5-12 so that beam would be in the center of the room and then we'll frame fake rafters down onto a dining room wall and the family room will have a vaulted look.
All in all we are feeling really good about this roof. It went together really well and we had a blast framing it, but we are glad the framing is done.
We framed in the other octagon yesterday and I think it took Jasen and I about an hour if you can believe it. The Platforms speedthings up hugely. Once I figured out my error on the first one, this one went really fast.
I have a fair number of pictures to post. Some may seem redundant, but the finished product looks pretty cool, so I'm posting a lot of pics :-)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465225.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465231.jpg
You can see down the street in this one a little. http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465240.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465253.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465270.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465509.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465285.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465513.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465518.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465526.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465529.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465546.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465550.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/96465213.jpg
Tim, from one young guy to the other, your work looks great. I wanna know though, what you're using for fascia, and how you install it: Do you nail it to a subfascia? How do you keep it straight? Plane it in w/ the rafters? Soffit details? Thanks for your time!
Jason,
We normally use 5/4" x 8" preprimed "whitewood" for fascia and we usually frame open soffits and a comp roof. This house we are going to use tile and we needed 5/4" x 10" fascia help up about 2". We used 2x6 subfascia.
What we do to keep the tails straight is never assume that just because we cut them before we install the rafters, they'll stay straight. I think twice we strung the tails in the air and didn't have to cut them. On this house and most we go with a 12" overhang measured horizontally from the framing on each end of a run and then run a nylon string down the tails, held up about 1/4 to 1/2" because no rafter is ever perfect. Then we cut a pattern plumbcut and walk the wall marking each tail eyeballing down the string.
This house we are framing closed soffits so once the tails were cut, we snapped a line on the wall, nailed a 2x4 and then used a rafter square to set the subfascia square to the 2x4 on the wall. That kept the subfascia the same height all the way around the house. To set the fascia we planed in with a speedsquare on top of the rafter, put a mark on the fascia then raised it 2". This is probably the straightes fascia we've done because we could work off the forklift platforms.
I'll take pics of the soffits when we get there and the returns. Also, never snap lines to cut tails. If one rafter is 1/4" high and the next is 1/8" low, your string snaps uphill on the tall and downhill on the low and compounds to make a really crappy fascia line.
Thanks a lot Tim, a snap a couple of up close photos of the soffits, nailer etc. BTW we normally install our subfascia, them run a string on it and shim between the sub and the rafter tails. It's fast but sometimes there isn't much nail left in the tail. Always looking for the better way to do something.
WOW!!
Don't know what else to say.
Coming from some one who has never even put a roof on a dog house it just boggles my mind to see something like this.
When I was reading the thread about framing and sheathing roofs on the ground I thought of this one. I don't think so.
It sounds like you had fun doing this one but I'll bet your glad that it is done.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Thank you for your comments. 3 years ago I would never have imagined that we would do this house and now that we've done it, I'm a little shocked we did it :-) It's a good feeling.
I need to spend the weekend stretching because a 12-12 is just too steep for my legs :-)
It's Sunday morning so I finally had a chance to get caught up on reading some of these threads.
Awesome bro. Just totally F'in awesome. That roof is just silky man.
Good on ya. Clean looking site, super slick framing job..... yer a real pro Tim. That is one impressive looking frame. I'm drooling.
Tim,
What are you paying up there? ;)
-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Not sure I understand the question.
Tim,Just saying it looks like fun and challenging work. I'd come work for you...-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Ok, that makes sense. I hate to jump to conclusions on these boards because there is just too much missing in written communication.
We are having fun, but yesterday we quite about 5 minutes before it started hailing on us. We had lightening and thunder and rain.
Yeah,
I remember that from when I was working in Seattle. Winter of 96/97...
-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Well, we finished framing today. It took about 7 weeks, but we got to do some really cool stuff. We added a stairway to get up into the attic, then added 1400sq of bonus room, bathroom, bedroom, wetbar, and tons of closets. :-) We step up 3 times up there to different rooms and such. It is pretty slick. This house is about 4100sq now :-) and to think that all that attic wasn't designed for. There was an optional bonus drawing on the plans, but it wasn't very good, so our designer redrew it. Some of the pics are hard to see, but I'll post the upper floor first.
We added a dormer also to the bedroom that was added. All in all it was a lot of framing, but was the most fun we've had. Start a new frame tomorrow :-)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99842054.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99842033.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99842026.jpg
Here are the pics of the entry barrel vault, the dining room cove ceiling, master ceiling and the family room.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841805.jpg.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841816.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841869.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841861.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841856.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841851.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841775.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99841763.jpg
some holddowns :-) http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/99842013.jpg
If you keep up this kind of work you will forget how to make a simple box house with a hip roof. lol
I do hope that you will be able to come back and get some pictures of the finished product.
Great work.
Many thanks for sharing it with us.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Thanks for the comments. I'll get lots of pics and it is about 1/2 mile from our next job :-)
Very cool inside corners on the vaulted ceiling Tim.
Excellent job and excellent pics.
blue
Blue,
Thanks for the compliments. Coming from you is high praise. Muchos Gracias (that's Russian for thank you or something) :-)
I finally got some update pics of this house. We ended up not siding it. Our trim guy and his helper sided it.
The drywallers should have finished today. Those guys flew. I think it took them 4 days and they did a perfect job hanging the barrel and the cove ceiling.
I'm impressed with the job they did. Much better than the idiot we used to use who said 1/4" drywall couldn't bend enough for this. What an idiot. He just didn't want to do anything that was a square.
I took these pics at 6:30 this morning so they aren't real good.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/108749466.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/108749475.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/108749482.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/108749494.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/108749509.jpg
Aw man Tim, that place is gorgeous. Don't you love it when the subs that come behind you do justice to your hard work? Keep the pics coming dude... you've got a gift.
Very nice. I always enjoy viewing your pictures, particularly the ones not taken at 6:30 in the morning.What was the fascia on that house? It looks like cedar siding on the front gables over the entry; is that Hardie on the left side that is visible?What are you working on now?
Thanks for the comments. The fascia was 5/4x10 primed spruce or something. I know a lot of guys don't like it, but we've had really good success here over the last 8-10 years we've been using it.
This house gets Hardi on the back and the side from about halfway to the back. On the front it is the rock you see and then stucco. I'll get some more shots when the sun is out :-)
We are framing a littler house that I'll get pics of tomorrow and we just finished this one http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/106870204.jpg
Bluemoose,
Here are some pics I shot today of the house we are working on. It is 1900sq and the upstairs is vaulted on top of 4' walls. I changed the roof line a little, so everything is 10-12 but the back left side is 6.25"-12 and the porch is a 4-12. I'm going to try and talk the boss into letting us do an eyebrow above that porch next time. Well see.
Here are some pics of the valley framing. The big valley is a 5 1/8" x 11 7/8" LVL that is beveled for each pitch, 6.25 and 10 pitches. I ordered it smaller than the cut depth of the rafter stock, 2x12, so we could back it for the drywallers and make it really straight.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864665.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864613.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864620.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864646.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864652.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864644.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/108864660.jpg
LOL.
spider man, spider man, doing the things a spider can.
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Lately my wife and I, brother and his wife, and Kyle (far pole) have been climbing at indoor climbing gyms. Talk about fun! http://verticalworld.com/kMembership.htm
So now of course we have to show off :-) In that pic you posted, that's Jasen on the left, then Jeff my cousing and Kyle in the distance.
Fast enough to have fun, eh?It's nice to see a crew that has fun on the job; there are way too many guys who are dumpy all the time and never enjoy the many fun aspects of our business.Does your company only do specs?We just finished our first roof with bastard hips, a 7.5/12. But it was only trusses...
We do customs too. Lately the market has been so hot that we've mostly done specs. Just got back from a long weekend in eastern WA for the Dave Matthews Band concert :-)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109640570.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109640581.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109640586.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109640597.jpg
Any pics of your 'boat-ride'??
If it were easy....a caveman could do it.
Me http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109671367.jpg
Brother http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109671395.jpg
Stitched view of Lake Chelan from my balcony. We were right at the bottom of the lake which is huge.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/5177572/109671672.jpg
I took some more pics this afternoon.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772526.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772535.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772539.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772546.jpg
Cove ceiling in the dining room
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772552.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772555.jpg
Barrel entry
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772560.jpg
Master ceiling
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772567.jpg
Living room
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772574.jpg
Bonus room upstairs above the garage. Added once the roof was on, plans showed attic space
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772579.jpg
Upstairs wet bar area, kitchenette. I was standing in this room when I took the bonus room pic
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772583.jpg
Standing in the wet bar area, looking into the extra bedroom we framed with a shed dormer added
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772590.jpg
Looking to the left from where I took the above picture is two stairways, the lower one goes to a bathroom with a tub/shower and the other goes to a storage room which is above the dining room cove
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772620.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772627.jpg
Looking down from the storage room into the bathroom
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/109772631.jpg
I can't wait to see the trim going in :-)
Thanks for posting more pics, Tim. That looks like a great house.What is your standard trim package on your specs?
Thanks Blue,
I don't know what our standard trim package is. This house will be way above whatever it normally is anyway :-) When I find out, I'll let you know. The trim guys should be starting in a couple of weeks and I can't wait to see how it goes.
Lookin' good Tim.
Takes me back to my misspent youth. I used to rig, fly and operate those kind of sound systems. Rock and roll roadie. Almost as much fun as buying new tools.
I see you went to The Gorge. I drove near there on I-90 about 2 months ago. The scenery of that area is pretty amazing.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I've got some updates. Our trim guy is trimming out the dining room and the entry first, which is cool. Here's the pics.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112681611.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112681614.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112681618.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112681619.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112681623.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112681620.jpg
Looking good. How long has he been at it?
The picture with a propane heater has my toes cold already. It's been in the 50's at night here, but the 40's will be here soon.
He has been at it for about 3 or 4 days. I'm not sure, but I think that is right. He is not a fast guy by any stretch and he is by himself, so it'll take longer to trim that it did to frame :-)
It hasn't been cold here yet, but it will be.
Thanks for the comments.
Finally have some update pics, but only a couple. I didn't get to take many pics today, maybe tomorrow. The progress has been really slow because we've had to pull onto other jobs. It should start picking up next week and be done by the end of Jan
Here are 2 pics of the kitchen
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/122447877.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/122447883.jpg
1 of the master bath.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/122447894.jpg
I'll try and take more tomorrow. The tile took forever so it looks like nothing is done, but you guys know how it is. From here on out, it'll start looking finished :-)
So we are getting closer :-) The bulk of the trim is done, now its just the small stuff for the most part. Hardwood is scheduled, landscaping should be done soon. Probably 3 weeks or 4 weeks till it's totally finished, but I snapped some really poor quality pics. I think I need a wide angle lense, so bear with me.
Part of the master bath. I can't get a decent angle http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340028.jpg
master bedroom. Next time I'll get a shot of the octagon section. I don't know why I didn't get that tonight http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340026.jpg
standing in the corner of the family room looking at the entry and dining room http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340017.jpg
dining room ceiling http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340013.jpg didn't get the wainscotting. Not sure why there either :-)
Kitchen http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340011.jpg
family room http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340009.jpg
den http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340012.jpg
upstairs kitchenette http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340016.jpg
back yard water feature http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340015.jpg
same from the upstairs bedroom http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/127340014.jpg
That's it for now. I'll get more pics in a couple of weeks when the painting is done.
Dammmmmm. Pioneer Builders does your frames justice, huh? Lookin' great Tim. This may end up sounding like stupid question, but that was a custom, right? Can't imagine the waterfall/rock garden deal would be part of a spec gig. Regardless... it's all beautiful. Usually I think it's a sin to cover up all that pretty framing, but I guess if you gotta dress up that sticks, that'll work just fine. :)View Image
Brian,
Ya, they do the frames justice. That house started as a spec but by dad (GC) sold his house and turned this house into a model that they (mom and dad) will live in. We have all 10 or so lots across the street that have a view of a lake in the back yard.
Thanks for the comments. That was such a fun house to frame.
I'm still jealous of your trim carpenter. I'm sick of standard plain jane colonial base, and casing.--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
Ya, the poor guy has been in there by himself doing all that trim. There must be a zillion pieces. I wish I could take better pics
So its about a week or so away from being totally done. I took some shots today, well yesterday, but they turned out so bad I retook them. Here is a link to the pics
Master Bedroom
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Master Bedroom picture 2
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Master Bathroom
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Den
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Great Room
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That beam is there for the inside framing. The real ridge is about 30' off the hardwood!
Great Room
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Entry w/barrel
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Dining Room w/cove and Entry w/barrel
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Dining Room w/cove
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Kitechen
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Nook
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Bedroom 1
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Downstairs Bedroom #2
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Jack & Jill Bathroom
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This bathroom is shared by bedroom #1 and #2
Jack & Jill Bathroom
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Upstairs Kitchenette
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This was never on the original plan, but stick framing the roof allowed us to build it into the attic.
Stairway
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Stairway leading to a bathroom and another room that could be turned into a bedroom
Upper Stairway leading to storage
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This is taken from inside the upstairs bathroom above the kitchen and looking at the "storage" room above the dining room. Again this is all attic that we turned into living space.
Storage room
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This is the room that could have been turned into a bedroom or anything else. Its right above the dining room.
Upstairs bedroom
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We cut a hole in the roof and built this shed dormer and turned this into a bedroom.
Upstairs Bedroom
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This was also added after the roof was framed. All of this would have been attic.
Bonus Room/media room
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Exterior Rear
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Exterior Rear 2
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You can see the shed dormer that we added for the upstairs bedroom.
Exterior Front
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Exterior Front 2
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Exterior Front 3
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i was gonna say this is my favorite..
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but this is probably it..is this the same room from a different angle ?
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/4/2006 7:36 pm ET by MikeSmith
ya, I've got a lot of work to do with a camera :-)
Same room, just looking at it from the great room
How much will this sell for?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
well . . . . . . . . . originally 500K, then we started to go to town on it and right now it would sell for 800K, but my boss is moving in. It'll be the 2 years as a model and sell it :-)
Once we added the sq ft upstairs (1600), my mom got the green light to make it really nice. She hit the ground running.
The finish guy, Robin, is really good. He's a cool guy and without him, this wouldn't have been so nice.
That is SWEET! I hope to get half as good as you guys framing it and your finish guy.Beautiful job.That would go for a LOT of money here in NJ.
Thanks for the comments. This house is going for a lot of money to me :-) Across the water toward Seattle or Bellvue this thing would be way more money. We are in an area where comparitively you can get a better deal, but prices are climbing faster than we can keep track of it seems.
Only downside to living here is that you'd have a crappy commute to get to Seattle or the surrounding areas. That'll get better once the new bridge is in though. A lot of people are buying over here because a crappy commute is worth a few hundred K savings on a home :-)
I'll pass along the compliments to Robin. He just did an outstanding job. I can't believe he didn't go insane. He did this whole thing by himself. I like working by myself sometimes, but not for 3 months off and on.
wow, tim.. you got a new bridge going in..
if i were in your shoes i'd be beggin, boorowin, and ( nah, no stealin ) all i could get to secure building lots with utilities or good percs / good wells
in 10 years after that bridge is opened you ain't gonna believe what will ahppen to property values
if i could turn back the hands of time to 1969 when they opened the Newport Bridge ??????Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My boss (father) had bought up quite a bit of property in this area in the last couple of years. The street that this house is on, we own all the rest of the lots (10 or 11 I think). They all have a lake view (really big pond) and it looks like we have 3 customs to jump on on this street. In this development, we own most of the remaining lots, although there is a lot of developing going on and hundreds of homes will go it eventually.
My wife and I are searching for land right now to sit on. Withing about 30 minutes you can get canal and mountain view that would blow you away. Property values on that street have more than doubled in the last year and a half :-)
tim.. the other thing that happened here..
as late as say '97, you could still pick up shid boxes in town for $40 K - $50 K..
now they are ... no word of lie.. $400K - $500K.. same pcs of shid
and .. you could buy them , fix them up , and today get rentals of $1200 - $2000
'course, living here .. i could never see it comming or happening around meMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Did he do the floors as well?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
No. He did all the trim, but the hardwood sub did that. I guess he just left for Hawaii for 2 weeks to do the floors in a house for Cameron Diaz :-) I guess the land that her house is on was 40 million!! There'll be 2 houses on it, but I don't know how it's split.
I do hope that you will be able to come back and get some pictures of the finished product.
I suspect framers think the 'finished product' is ugly and that the real beauty is in the skelatal framed state before all their work gets covered up ;)
Looks great, Tim!
jt8
Failing doesn't make you a failure. Giving up, accepting your failure, refusing to try again does! -- Richard Exely
Edited 6/10/2005 9:40 am ET by JohnT8
I've got a couple of pics of the crew. We make this look good!! :-)Kyle, our newest guy is taking the pic. From the left is Jeff, then Matt, Jasen and then me. I think blue might be my color? We are a motley crew :-)http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293...86/96915038.jpghttp://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293...86/96915055.jpg
I dunno about them pictures Tim..... yer crew looks a little too purdy!
Y'all need to get some of this on site .......
You'll have to beat the babes away with 2x4's
Thanks Brian. You know we are keeping the jobsite much more organized and clean after I saw pics of your site. You set the bar up there, and we are just trying to keep up.
Hope you are doing well.
Tim that roof job looks fantastic....a job well done!
Congratulations.
blue
PS You're hired!
I like those shots from the top of the Caterpillar. They remind me of the dollhouse that I had to build (1:6 scale) when in trade school.
Jon Blakemore
Thanks John. I should get a shot of the street we are on. I'm not a big fan of a lot them from the outside, but it is turning pretty nice.
That my sir is some pretty rafter cuttin.Almost looks like your trimming a house insteadof framing :-)Man those saws are slicker than snot.Thanks for taking the time to post.Approx. how long(after you set up your mat.on the horses) does it take to make those cuts....10 min.?
Thanks! The time to set up is pretty quick depending on everyone's mood. Its faster to pack 24' 2x10 in the morning than at 4 in the afternoon :-)
I like to layout one rafter and then start racking. We can get the material onto the racks with the forklift and then it's just a matter of crowning and sliding the stock over. The actual cutting time is pretty fast. The birdsmouth is easy on this roof because both angles are 45°. It takes a little longer to cut the ridge cuts and the tail, but not much.
If they are hip jacks, then you have to walk through the pile and mark the plumb cut and cut with a saw set at 45°. It all depends too on what's going on. I've found that it's faster if I cut by myself and walk through the middle of the stack and mark and cut and slide them left and right as I go.
Dang, you take some nice photos! You sure you weren't a pro photographer before you started framing? Digital camera? Which one?
Thanks, but I have zero clue about taking pictures. I think it's the camera. I bought it to take pics for JLC about a year and some months ago. It's the Canon EOS Digital Rebel. 6 megapixel. There is a newer one that is getting great reviews and I think it's 8 megapixel.
I find the pictures turn out better if I spin around a lot and then push the button :-) I wish I could take really great pic. You know who is a great photographer is Gary Katz. I saw some pics he took that blew me away. I've always heard those finish guys were artists compared to us framers, now I know it's true.
Excellent pics Tim.
The first pic made me shudder. Your guy is standing in the perfect position for the chainsaw to kick back and cut a major artery in the groin area. He needs some sort of safety lesson, but I see he's wearing earplugs. When he dies, he'll at least hear the sirens coming.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Looks great so far, Tim. Its nice to see someone putting rafters in. Looks like you've got it down to a science. Boy, you can sure know its done right when you do it yourself!
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
Edited 5/5/2005 11:36 am ET by JohnT8
Sunshine today and about 70° :-) We had a decent day today. We got the jobsite cleaned up and organized, Jasen got some stuff done on another house for the inspector and we framed around both octagon bays. We'll frame those in next week, or maybe Saturday, although I doubt that.
The back section over the master bedroom is really cut up. Everything worked the first time, but the king valley jack I cut the bevel backwards and didn't notice it until we got done, so it's a little cockeyed. I calculated the broken hip 1" too long, so we recut that and it fit really well. I still feel new to calculating a roof. It's getting better and better and easier, but I still don't have the confidence to calc everything and cut it. We just go in sections.
Neighbor stopped by today to tell us how nice it is to see rafters going in. It gives the impression that there is "skilled labor" working on that house. That's good for morale and everyone feels good about showing up for work in the morning.
Thanks for all the interest in this thread by the way. This is really the most fun we've had framing in a long time. Not to say we don't enjoy it, but this house is just plain fun to work on :-)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95556956.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95556953.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95556937.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95556944.jpg
Just thought I would show you where we are with the building I posted in post # 7 (that picture was taken @ 1:00pm 4/30/05). Here is the same building @ 1.00pm today. Also a shot down the street of the work in progress.
On a project like that, I assume you are the framer, are you responsible for the paper? You know, walls and roof. Of is it the next guys job? How does it happen in your area?
Here the framer (generally) papers the walls, usually before standing, and felts the roof for roofing. Sometimes D-edge, sometimes not. I guess the getting the felt paper on ASAP got the house considered dried in that much sooner.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail
Were young enough to Rock! But to old to Frame! My job is to open the Gate in the Am. & lock it up in the PM. & everything in between!
No paper on the walls. My roofing contractor ( great Guy!) does the dry-in on 24hr lead time. Would be a good thing to paper the walls or tyvek, but in the local world of the production builder, its never used. We do line the exterior walls with plastic VB before drywall.
We try hard to deliver a good product, but when 1 permit & fees to build one townhouse starts @ $22K. Some items don't make the cut.
So far this project the price range has been $170K to$255K. 5 different floor plans. 1150 sq.ft. to 1520 sq.ft. All have 2 car garages & min 2 baths / 2 beds.
That is a lot of sheathing!! Looks like you do nice work. I wouldn't want to be the concrete guy on some of those foundations. :=)
Having fun? Why are you guys rushing through it so fast? Do you discount your price for frame-ups that are enjoyable?
<Only kidding!>
Love the aerial photos! Be careful up there. Maybe we can get Stan Foster out west to take some shots from up around 1500 feet!
Gene,
We are all hourly. My father is the GC and has been building since the late 70's. He has always used hourly framers, or almost always. He used to have 4 or 5 crews framing in the 80s. We have my crew (4 guys including me) and then we have 2 finish guys and one new "apprentice" trim guy. We can't seem to get good framing subs around here.
I'll tell you though, I would charge a lot for the roof framing on this one if I was a sub. I forgot my camera today, but we set the highest ridge and off the subfloor the posts were about 29'!! If we didn't have the forklift and the platform, we'd be at least a day slower than we are. It's going together fairly quickly. This is probably the cleanest we've framed a roof (actually the entire house). Everything is just working out really well. A 12-12 roof helps because nearly all the angles are 45° :-) But we don't tell the neighbors that ;-)
We are being extremely careful on this one. I don't want anyone to hurt themselves. I try and make work as fun as I can for the crew so work isn't work, it's actually something enjoyable.
The framer across the street came over and asked if we learned to frame in California because we were racking the rafters and we sang so loud :-) I don't know if that is a complement or not. . . .he said he could tell we have a lot of fun and he is impressed that we are doing so well at the same time. That was just what the crew needed to hear.
I would love to see what this roof looks like 1500ft in the air. Now that would be a cool pic. Everything would look square from up there :-)
Damn Tim, although I haven't been around much lately, I can't believe I blew by this thread. Everything looks awesome.... some slick framing you've got going on. Nice clean lines... I like it. Seems like you guys are killing that frame... good on ya. I'm with you on the whole truss thing..... I avoid 'em at all costs.... just don't like 'em at all. Lucky for us, they're not popular at all around here except in the lowest of budget tracts and commercial work.... two places I stay very far away from!
Keep up the great work and the slick pictures.... I'm impressed. But then, I expect nothing less from you!
I forgot my camera yesterday, but I drove by today and took a couple of pics.
We didn't get much done yesterday. It was a fairly lazy day. We did the main ridge set. The posts from the subfloor about 29'! I didn't get any pics of us setting it, but with the platform we were able to cut up there and plumb the posts with the laser and then set the ridge and the broken hips on the right hand side of the house. Then we filled in the jacks.
Monday morning we'll get the 26' 9 1/2" lvl common rafters in place and then work on the left side of the house and get the ridge and the last really long hips and valleys in. Our pile of 1 3/4" x 14" lvls is getting smaller and smaller. It's going to be a shame to cover this up. The skeleton looks so cool :-)
For this roof, I tended to cut lots of the same numbers and not worry about spacing on the rafters. Most of the time I want everything 2' from each other so sheathing is easy, but this roof is so big that I started layout from the corners on the hips in most places and from the king common valley jack or started with the first jack step and then went from there. It is easier to keep track of the rafters and calculate. It will be a little more time consuming sheathing but not too bad.
This is the first house that I've tried calculating all the broken hips and setting them the way Will shows in his book. If using a 2x ridge, nail a 2x2 to the line where the valley nails to the ridge (double cheek cut) and then the broken hip will slide in and nail to the other side of the 2x2. I'll try and get shots next week. It is going really well. I think this is the best framing we've done and everything is really clicking :-) I can't wait for Monday :-)
This first pic is what you see driving down the street. The second is out front.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95783170.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95783182.jpg
Edit: I zoomed in as close as I could on a pic and cropped it. You can just barely make out the 2x2
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/95783872.jpg
Edited 5/7/2005 8:31 pm ET by TIMUHLER