Replies

1. 
   MRinger | Oct 21, 2005 01:19am | #1

   I use Senco Angle finish nail gun 15 ga. On ext. projects I use stainless steel finish nails. Most finish nail manuf. say "don't use on P.T wood and Exterior".

   S.Steel nails are quite expensive but if the HO complains about streaks and stain, what is more expensive; nails or the time that you have to go back to fix it?

   I order the nails at: http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/ when my lumberyard doesn't have them :)

   
   

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   Edited 10/20/2005 6:21 pm ET by MRinger

1. 
   TomSpang | Oct 21, 2005 02:02am | #4

   Thanks  I just ordered a box of stainless. Ten times the cost but, as you say, worth it.

   Tom

2. 
   Piffin | Oct 21, 2005 01:45am | #2

   Use finish nails for ecterior work and you will be re-nailing it every year

    

    

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   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
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1. 
   DDay | Oct 21, 2005 03:49am | #5

   I've seen a handful of better builders in my area using finish nails for ext. trim.  It's a something that they started doing last year, it will be very interesting to see how it holds up.  A few even use it on Azek, with that movement...yikes.

   I don't understand their thinking though.  On all the trim they nail the heck out of it, because they know the finish nails have little holding strength.  On fascia, instead of two ring shanks in each rafter tail they will put about 5 or 6 finish nails.  So yeah, you have the small nail hole from the nail but the wood looks like a bb gun target.  They'll do it on everything, fascia, corner boards, soffits, etc.  They are very good builders in all other areas and the houses are $1.5m and up so I can't understand their thinking with the finish nails.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 21, 2005 04:37am | #6

   I keep hearing about crap like this and all I can do is sigh and think, JOB SECIRITY 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   jrnbj | Oct 21, 2005 05:47am | #7

   Hey Piffin....did you ever see or use the Spotnails gun that shoot both framing nails & what they called a "casing" nail for trim???
   Spotnails has been through a few changes & I'd guess even if you had the gun you couln't get nails any longer for it, but it sure seemed like a good idea to me....even when I use finish nailers to put up exterior trim I still go back & stitch in some nice big hot dipped babies....

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 22, 2005 10:53pm | #12

   nope 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   ANDYSZ2 | Oct 21, 2005 06:12am | #8

   I have seen trim 50 years old held up by trim nails on crown and fascia once a painter caulks and paints there is a serious bond that seems to endure well.

   When ever I am removing trim I  have to use a utility knife to cut thru the layers of caulk and paint then I can remove the trim without breaking , but if I try and pry without cutting it always breaks.

   So I beg to differ on the weakness of trim nails  as it is only part of the bonding process.

   ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.

   Remodeler/Punchout

1. 
   JDRHI | Oct 21, 2005 06:33am | #10

   These 16 ga. nails.....you say they`re 50 yrs. old?

   Lemme get this straight....

   YOU BANNED REZ?!?!

   Holy bagels and lox Batman!

    

2. 
   ANDYSZ2 | Oct 21, 2005 06:57am | #11

   Actually the 50 year old were hand nailed not much bigger than 15 gauge.

   I have removed 10 year old and younger siding held on by gun trim nails and was actually glad once I cut the caulk loose they were easy to pull but still holding.

   ANDYSZ2

   PS: almost all preassembled window trim is nailed with staples or trim nails and if they aren't rusted thru they still hold well.I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.

   Remodeler/Punchout

3. 
   Piffin | Oct 22, 2005 10:58pm | #13

   not same apples to apples. The "trim" nails from fifty years agao or casing nails are thjree times as strong and have more grip ( displacement of wood) than any gun dribven 15 ga nail can dream of in any nailbox fantasy. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   darcy | Oct 23, 2005 03:12am | #15

   When I was working as an exterior trim carpenter (working with Azek exclusively) we used galvenized trim nails.You won't get any movement if you screw-off all of your butt and scarf joints. Say, in 11 and 1/4 freize, we would sink 5 or 6 3" screws through the hardy and into the studs. Our Azek reps approved this method.

3. 
   BUIC | Oct 21, 2005 01:57am | #3

   Tom - go to Mcfeelys.com they've got 16 ga. stainless steel nails, thats if 16 ga. is adequate for what your doing...BUIC

4. 
   JDRHI | Oct 21, 2005 06:32am | #9

   I just aquired a Finish Nailer (16ga). I planned to use it on outside trim. The nails say galv and interior use only. Is this a problem

   Nope. No problem whatsoever for the guy that makes a living fixing others screw ups.

   Lemme get this straight....

   YOU BANNED REZ?!?!

   Holy bagels and lox Batman!

    

5. 
   drbgwood | Oct 23, 2005 03:01am | #14

   I've been using regular bostich finish nails on azek, as long as the peice is under 8 feet.  I don't think the expansion will be a problem for anything that short, but longer pieces, I'll hand drive bigger gal finish nails in.

   As for rusting and streeking, I haven't seen any problem yet.  The nail gun sets them in well below the surface and then they get covered with either caulk or exterior putty and paint.

   I guess on horizontal peices if water gets behind the trim, it could streek out the bottom, but I've been caulking the top of most everything I can remember to the sheathing so if water gets to it, it kicks it out over the front.

   Maybe I'm messing up with the non galv nails in the azek.  I'll be watching this tread.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 23, 2005 02:45pm | #18

   rather than watching this thread, you'd be better off watching your nails. In twenty years, they will be rusted out and nothing holding the azec on 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   MRinger | Oct 23, 2005 04:59pm | #21

   Always using poly. construction and SS finish nail...

    

2. 
   drbgwood | Oct 23, 2005 05:39pm | #22

   I'll get me a box of those ss nails and start "dropping by" to see some of my old customers.  Fortunately, for most of the azek, I did use galv hand driven nails. 

   I've put up plenty of pvc never-rot brick mold with the regular ones though...  Glad you all got me straintend out on this now, instead of later.

   thanks

1. 
   nikkiwood | Oct 23, 2005 05:59pm | #23

   I have been watching this thread, and I just reread everything from post 1 onward. And I would be grateful if you would clarify your own practice. Do you hand nail all exterior trim with galvanized nails? Do you ever use a finish gun, even with ss nails, for exterior trim?Thanks.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 24, 2005 01:30am | #25

   we hand nail SS ring nails for exterior trim and clapboard siding 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   Mongo | Oct 24, 2005 02:57pm | #41

   Bravo, and ditto.Can't tell you how many times I've been told when I've been hand-nailing ss ringshanks "but this (pneumatic) way is faster." 'Course now I have to reply "but my way is better...and in the long run, my way is faster, too."

6. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2005 05:38am | #16

   It depends.  If the trim is light, like screen moulding then yeah it's ok.  I like to use the hand nailed stainless ring shanks on the heavier stuff, like Azak or exterior casing.  Never worry.

1. 
   dieselpig | Oct 23, 2005 05:58am | #17

   Just sharing something I learned last year:  Azek recommends that ring shank nails NOT be used for installation... screws or smooth shank nails.

1. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2005 03:01pm | #19

   Interesting.  Do you remember their reason why?

2. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2005 03:04pm | #20

   Just thinking about it , maybe it's because the Azak material doesn't spring back into the tiny void that the rings create when they are being pushed through, unlike wood.  So consequently there's room for the water to come in. 

   That's my best shot.

1. 
   DDay | Oct 24, 2005 01:03am | #24

   I talked to the azek sales rep in the area and he said that they some times have problems with the azek blowing out the back side of when you use ring shanks.  The blow out prevents the azek from laying down tight and flat against the sheathing, framing member, etc.  If I remember correctly I think they are fine with gun ring shanks, because they go in quickly, I know they don't recommend hand nailing rings.  He also said that the material heats up and when you need more than one strike to drive the nail the heated up material bonds to the rings and pulls through the back.

   There are some newer style rings that are designed for pvc trim, don't know what they say about those or how well they work.  Maze is one of the companies that make them.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 24, 2005 01:33am | #26

   that's well worth knowing
    

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   jerseyjeff | Oct 24, 2005 03:54am | #28

   Not to seem dense,  but what size ring shank nail do you use,  and have you considered using the SS trim head screws instead?

   I always thought it was ok to put up very small ext trim (3/4" cove)  with ss 15 gauge finish nails...

    

3. 
   dieselpig | Oct 24, 2005 04:05am | #29

   I nail up smaller or more delicate exterior trim pieces all the time with SS 15 guage trim nails.  Things like 1/4 round, cove and smaller crown moldings.  I use plenty of Titebond II where appropriate, more nails than usual, and I'm careful that the nails aren't overdriven so they hold as best possible.  I'd love to find SS narrow crown staples.... those suckers hold great and are great for smaller profiles.

   I think, but am definately assuming, that most everyone is talking about exterior trim items like window casing, fascia, soffit, rakes, frieze, etc in this thread.  We always use a 6 or 8 penny HD galvanized or SS nail for these larger items which are prone to more significant movement.

4. 
   dustinf | Oct 24, 2005 04:26am | #33

   Ask, and you shall receive. http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/L%20series%20staples.htm

   View Image

5. 
   dieselpig | Oct 24, 2005 04:35am | #35

   Who's better than you?  Sweet.

6. 
   dustinf | Oct 24, 2005 04:42am | #36

   Who's better than you?

   View Image

7. 
   Piffin | Oct 24, 2005 05:08am | #37

   Oh my! we've got to update that old thing 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

   
8. 
   BossHog | Oct 24, 2005 02:42pm | #40

   "Use finish nails for ecterior work and you will be re-nailing it every year"

   Are drywall screws better?
   I think my life would seem more interesting with a musical score and a laugh track.

9. 
   Piffin | Oct 25, 2005 05:00am | #43

   U bet!;)just be sure they are galvies 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

10. 
    Piffin | Oct 24, 2005 04:05am | #30

    I've tried that with 3/4" cove and found pieces falling off four or five years later.For the small trim and clapboards we use 2" trimhead SS ringsFor the corner trim and casings etc, we use 2-1/4" or 2-1/2"For porch banding, stair risers, and waist, we use a larger diameter with full headTrim head SS still have a head, unlike a finish nail 

     

    Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

11. 
    dieselpig | Oct 24, 2005 04:07am | #31

    Hmmmmmm.

12. 
    jerseyjeff | Oct 24, 2005 04:20am | #32

    Now I am feeling real dense....

    Looking at the nails in my 15 guage gun,  they seem to have a head,  almost like a clipped head framing nail.  My 23 guage pin gun though has virtually no head. 

     

13. 
    Piffin | Oct 24, 2005 04:27am | #34

    myu 15 ga nails have no head, just a bulb like any finish nail 

     

    Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

14. 
    ANDYSZ2 | Oct 24, 2005 02:12pm | #38

    Piffin are you caulking the crown after you put it up or nail only.and is the proximity to salt water why you use stainless.

    Here galvanized 15 gauge is the norm for exterior crown and I have never seen a piece coming off and when I remove trim for additions etc., the trim will break if I don't cut the bead of caulk and paint and as far as rust if the trim is under an overhang there is little to none.

    ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.

    Remodeler/Punchout

15. 
    Piffin | Oct 25, 2005 04:58am | #42

    Caulk is a painter's tool. I suppose they do use some. I used galvies when I lived in CO, but they can rust and stain the work here. Galvies 15ga is only electroplate anyway 

     

    Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

16. 
    Jer | Oct 24, 2005 02:32am | #27

    Yeah, thanks for that.  I will follow that advice.

7. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 24, 2005 02:26pm | #39

   Years ago, I watched a foreman nail light trim on by hand with bright finish nails. At the time, I questioned him about why he wasn't using galvanized finish nails. He told me that it wasn't necessary because the posts that we were trimming was under a wide canopy.

   Two years later he was back on a service call renailing all the trim in this strip mall! It was falling off!

   blue