When installing the finished flooring in a kitchen, is it typical to place the finished flooring in the areas where the kitchen base cabinets will be located? Or, to save using that expensive flooring, is it typical to place 3/4 plywood in those areas? Thanks
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Replies
I shimmed to the correct height of the floor, which was not 3/4".
Make sure the Dishwasher it properly shimmed up as well, otherwise it's easy to inadvertently tile it in.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
When I was working for a production cabinet shop, building cabinets for new homes, the flooring guys would always lay the hardwood just beyond the toe kick line and then lay a strip of culled out flooring near the wall. That was enough to support the cabinets. There was no need for additional plywood. They did need to lay flooring where they refrigerator goes and they would also just lay flooring under the dishwasher because it's only a 2x2 area.
Now that I'm on my own, the kitchens I build are usually for remodels. We do the same if new hardwood is going down but if the floor is going to be tile, the tile setters I work with prefer to tile up to the cabinets, so I make the toe kicks a little taller so they'll be about 4" once the tile is installed.
Not everyone agrees with me on this, but I've learned that finishing the whole kitchen floor with the "show" floor lends certain advantages.
The first is that if the floor is continuous to the room edges under the cabinets and sealed along the walls, a leak in the sink or dishwasher area is much less likely to run between flooring and underlayment and ruin the visible floor. It's just a matter of time before one of these two areas leaks, and a ruined floor is a too often outcome of what could have been a simple repair.
The next is that for many types of flooring, it is simply faster and easier to lay the floor over the simple rectangle of the room rather than make all the fitting cuts around where the cabinets will go.
The next is that you don't save that much in material cost by substituting another material under the cabinet area.
It is much easier to install the cabinets if the floor is one level throughout. The exception is when the cabinet installer likes to install over a nailed down platform - in that case he/she has to substitute GE silicon RTV for nails (grips like a monkey with the weight of the cabinets on it).
Finally, I've always believed that the install looks much more professional if you have put the "show" floor under the refrigerator and stove (assuming that those are not built-ins) as you can see under them, you clean under them, and you see those two areas when you move the refrigerator or stove - and refrigerators especially get moved from time to time.
Mike D
You are dead on. stinky
On the money.
I always install finished floor under cabinets (laminate flooring excepted) for all the reasons Mike D has spelled out here.No Coffee No Workee!
why shouldn't lamiate be installed under cabiets?
....Finally, I've always believed that the install looks much more professional if you have put the "show" floor under the refrigerator and stove (assuming that those are not built-ins) as you can see under them, you clean under them, and you see those two areas when you move the refrigerator or stove - and refrigerators especially get moved from time to time......That statement really has nothing to do with the question of putting finish floor under cabinets. It's a given to finish the floor in those 2 places, no matter your opinion on the other issue On the other issue. Put me in the no finished floor under cabinets. It has nothing to do with if you save money or not
Barry E-Remodeler
dittos
I always specify that tile (or other finish) be run under cabinets.
Cheaping out that way is, well, cheap. Unless your kitchen floor is to be finished in $250/sf glass mosaïc tile, you aren't going to save much actual money, and if it is, well, you can afford it so stop pinching pennies.
More to the point, you will be creating an unpleasant and expensive surprise for the next person who decides to remodel the kitchen, whether that's you in 5 or 15 years, or the next owner.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
It also makes installing the floor easier not having to go around the cabinetry. The only time we go under cabinets is if the old cabinets are gone, we won't pull cabinets to go under them.
Either way, If someone is going to complete a full kitchen remodel it usually involves the flooring being replaced in my experience.
Depending on the size of the kitchen, the number of cabs, and the type of finish floor, needing to redo the floor during a remodel can triple (or at least double) the cost of the remod. That's a deal killer for a lot of people, who are tired of seeing those old cabs and layout, but would be willing to tolerate the old flooring to save five or ten grand they just ain't got.
I can build a set of custom pine cabs for a medium-sized kitchen for under six grand installed, but I can't rip up a tile floor and install a new one in the same kitchen for that unless I'm using $1/sf craapola weekly specials from da big box. And who wants that?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
The only time we go under cabinets is if the old cabinets are gone, we won't pull cabinets to go under them.
On that, I semi-agree; if it's not a big deal to yank the old cabs, I'll do it. But if the cabs are screwed to every stud with three 4" slot-heads and the countertop is caulked to the backsplash with a half-inch-thick bead of 25-y-o hardened putty, well, they can stay there and I'll run the flooring up to 3/8" from the kick and lay a shoe moulding to cover the expansion gap.
Of course, cutting the old flooring flush with the kick could be a job for a FMM....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I don't install finsihed flooring under cabinets.
If the cabinets outlast the finish floor it's best if the flooring was never under them. If the cabinet layout is changed before the flooring is replaced then vice versa. Catch 22. One for sure though is not to put laminate [the plastic stuff] under.
thats where i'm at.
when i put in a set of cabinets,i feel they are there for 30+ years.
flooring maybe 15,before it wears out or someone wants to update the color or material.
when that flooring goes under the cabinets it can make life miserable trying to get it trimmed back.. i had one one time i finally gave up on,put berber down and sold it,let the next guy deal with it.
the only way i would go under is with sheet goods.the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
It's really hard to know. Cabinets may last 30 years, but fashions in kitchen layout mean many people end up binning perfectly good kitchens just to freshen them up.
No dilemma here. A good 3/4 of my kitchen is on wheels, and the floor is concrete.
Nah, you need a toe-kick saw for cutting the old floor so long as it's not tile.
Works sweet as you could imagine and a lot faster then the MM
An interesting discussion.
Working at the other end of the food chain (slumlord remodels), I've seen the troubles caused when the the finished floor stops short of the cabinets, etc. What usually happens is that a later remodel - which can be something as mundane as removing a cabinet and adding a dishwasher - exposes the raw floor.
So, my vote is for the finished floor to go from wall to wall. Heck, now that I think about it, I might even want to go a step further, and add a 'slip sheet' uncer each piece, and trim it to the edge. ("Slip sheets" are stout, pallet-size plastic sheets that are very slippery. In many plants, they are used instead of pallets. A typical sheet measures maybe 40x60, and is less than 1/16" thick).
Izzat like a miniature, right-angle jamb saw?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
http://www.craintools.com/fs-specialtysaws.html
You need to scroll down a little to find it. IIRC it's the 3rd saw down the page.
Never seen one of those before. Thanx....
View Image
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
They work fairly well. Inside corners you still have to cut out and they do not offer any sort of depth adjustment but I've gotten around that by putting a plywood shim under the saw base.
Good thread,I have the same situation coming up. I am building a new kitchen and the DW has picked out some nice 12 by 12 tile. Should I run that under the cabs, or put down plywood where the cabs will be? I think the installers will not enjoy attaching the cabs with the tile in the way.Thanks for your input.
I've just encountered an annoying combination of the two. A kitchen that has hardwood floors, but under the cabinets the installer let the flooring run wild. It varies between 2" and 8" from the wall.
Why? What were they thinking? How much time did they really save?
My rule of thumb is to always finish the ENTIRE floor, regardless of cabinet layout.
Only on very rare occassion will I consider filling in areas using a less expensive substrate.
If the finish flooring is exceedingly expensive, and there will be a large number of cabinets resulting in a few thousand dollars worth of unseen floor space....I'll think about it.
It's usually only a couple hundred dollars in the long run, so I typically recomend laying the entire floor first.
I have seen instances where areas believed to be covered were not finished initially, but had to be once cabinetry installation was complete. This "after the fact repair" was more costly then the money "saved" by not finishing the floor correctly to begin with.
R.I.P. RAZZMAN