Replies

1. 
   VaTom | Dec 05, 2006 06:15am | #1

   I much prefer a penetrating oil, preferably mixed with a little poly.  Takes dings nicely. 

   Kinda depends on how formal the house is.

   PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   merlvern | Dec 05, 2006 08:33pm | #4

   doing the same sort of project as VaTomwould you mind elaborating?what type oil? any brand you prefer? what's the mix?
   what does style of house have to do with this?...is poly's "look" considered less fancy?thank you

2. 
   merlvern | Dec 05, 2006 08:35pm | #5

   ohh! also, do you use anything to "fill" the grain of red oak rails? conditioner?

1. 
   VaTom | Dec 06, 2006 06:14am | #6

   Not my project, but I've done a lot of oil finishes over the years. 

   Generally I use Watco mixed with poly.  Watco by itself strikes me as too thin.  The reason for the poly is not just thickening, but also to slow down moisture transfer which Watco alone doesn't.  Not important for a handrail, very important for panels. 

   The guy I apprenticed under used a pre-thinned poly from Flecto in his oil mix, but I haven't seen it for years.  Straight poly doesn't strike me as too thick.  I never measured, but maybe 20-25% poly.

   Never met a grain filler I liked.  What I prefer is to apply 2 heavy coats of oil mix and let it stand.  Don't wipe it off.  When dry, wet sand with more of the oil mix.  The sludge from the earlier oilings will do a pretty good job of filling pores.  Subsequent wet sandings with progressively finer paper will ultimately give a glass finish if you go fine enough.

   1000 grit I keep around, but don't usually go beyond 400.  All depends on client expectation, and pocket depth.  Paste wax is a shortcut to shine but the last coat of oil needs to be very dry.

   Most guests here assume I have thin lacquer on my furniture.  But it's just oil.

   For matching traditional furniture with a thick surface finish, lacquer (or shellac) is better.  Also shows every ding clearly.

   Tung oil or boiled linseed oil also work well.  Different drying times.  Straight poly is a finish I detest.  Likewise catalyzed.  All finishes will need some repair someday, better to have one that accepts it gracefully.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   merlvern | Dec 06, 2006 03:15pm | #7

   wow! great, thank you very much.

1. 
   VaTom | Dec 06, 2006 04:40pm | #8

   You're welcome. 

   I forgot to include an example.  This is a simpler version of a commission I built.  The original had lighted lyre desks and black lacquer finish, sits between two grand pianos in the corner of a rather large living room.  Fortunately, the pianos weren't Yamahas (with very difficult lacquer finishes). 

   The reason I chose oil for the second one, built primarily for an exhibition (and was second choice by FineWoodworking for their featured photo), was that I intended to put it in a string-only music shop on consignment.  Bound to get a ding or few, and lacquer would have needed work shortly.  Oil held up fine.

   Now lives in a box here somewhere...PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

2. 
   merlvern | Dec 06, 2006 04:59pm | #9

   beautiful....wanna come by (nj) and do some work...lol"The reason for the poly is not just thickening, but also to slow down moisture transfer which Watco alone doesn't. Not important for a handrail, very important for panels."could you explain that?

3. 
   VaTom | Dec 07, 2006 06:02am | #10

   Thanks, but somehow I've never found New Jersey particularly attractive.  What was it Archie (Bunker) said?  Something about how nobody likes Jersey, but somebody has to live there.  <G>

   Might be able to come up with an explanation that makes sense.  Don't know your expertise.  Hope this isn't talking down to you... 

   Changes in humidity result in changes in wood mc (moisture content) and therefore size, right?  Well, humidity can change very rapidly.  You don't want your wood to move like that.  The slower the movement, the better.  Ideally, your panel won't experience any size (mc) change from humidity change.  Unfortunately, that requires a coating of aluminum paint.  Generally unacceptable.

   Other coatings inhibit to a lesser degree the effect of humidity change.  Watco, next to none.  Polyurethane, a moderate amount.

   Taunton, our host here, published a book by R. Bruce Hoadley (of U. Mass., Amherst), "Understanding Wood" (1980).  It's a great introduction to the subject.  Shortly after his book was published, Hoadley was the one presenter at a national woodworking conference I attended that virtually every other presenter wanted to hear.  Seems everybody's had wood movement problems at one time or another.   

   Further detailed information is available from the U.S. Forest Products Laboratory. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

2. 
   IdahoDon | Dec 05, 2006 07:31am | #2

     Handrails get a lot of wear and tear so poly is about as durable as it gets.

   Havng said that, I like the way other finishes look and have used them for seldom used stairs.

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

3. 
   dovetail97128 | Dec 05, 2006 08:28pm | #3

   I have used Tung Oil with Varnish in the past . Hard enough to be durable, easily repaired if dinged. Adds a little luster to the finish as opposed to straight oils. The key with it is in the application, which is easy, mostly just elbow grease.