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Finishing Ipé Decking

sasha | Posted in General Discussion on May 28, 2005 07:37am

I have about 200 sq ft of exterior , covered Ipe’ porch decking.  Were in South Carolina so there’s plenty of moisture and hot afternoon sun exposure.  Our builder stained the wood to even out the color and then top coated with Helmsman spar vanish.  The finish is failing after a bit more than a year.  Basically, the varnish is just dusting away.  Anyone with experience with this wood have a suggested finishing schedule?

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  1. fartherhome | May 28, 2005 08:10am | #1

    Ipe is very dense and wont take finishes that have  a high solids content. The  only products Ive heard recomended for ipe are Messmers uv and penofin. Ive used the Messmers. I believe you have to recoat the deck at least  every 2 yrs.

    Ive come to the conclusion its probably better to let the ipe grey.

  2. User avater
    IMERC | May 28, 2005 08:16am | #2

    welcome back Sasha...

    Mr piffen is the mane here or Pro-Dek for that question...

    how did you makr out with the bay window????

     

    1. User avater
      Sphere | May 28, 2005 11:36pm | #7

      Wasn't that Sasha in Atlanta?  This one has only one post to the name.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

      The Morphine    s eems  to do no good at all..I'd run all the way if I would not fall...

       

      1. sasha | May 28, 2005 11:56pm | #8

        south carolina, not atlanta

        1. User avater
          Sphere | May 29, 2005 12:04am | #10

          I know YOU are in SC, I was wondering if Imerc confused you with another from Atlanta.

          She had some serious window and roof problems last winter I think.

           

          Edit to add: I like Pen-0-fin too..sand off the varnish, it'll not be too hard to get off.

            Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

          The Morphine    s eems  to do no good at all..I'd run all the way if I would not fall...

           

          Edited 5/28/2005 5:05 pm ET by SPHERE

          1. sasha | May 29, 2005 12:14am | #11

             Thanks to all for the advice on Penofin. 

      2. Piffin | May 29, 2005 08:54pm | #20

        Think maybe Imerc needs a Dewey Decimal system to keep all these women sorted out?Sasha .01 and Sasha .10 ? 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. User avater
          Sphere | May 30, 2005 03:46pm | #33

          As long as he don't mix our own "Kostello" in there ..HE might be offended.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

          The Morphine    s eems  to do no good at all..I'd run all the way if I would not fall...

           

        2. User avater
          IMERC | Jun 13, 2005 08:29am | #40

          need sumtin... 

  3. User avater
    IMERC | May 28, 2005 08:20am | #3

    het guy.. look see..

     

    1. Piffin | May 29, 2005 08:43pm | #17

      Who is that PFN guy anyway, using my initials like that? Bet he must be registered somewhere else in the Delphi/prospero system 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. User avater
        IMERC | Jun 13, 2005 08:28am | #39

        DIIK... 

        1. rez | Jun 13, 2005 11:54pm | #41

          hee hee You called Piffin a dick.

          A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid 

          1. User avater
            IMERC | Jun 14, 2005 07:51am | #44

            CLEAN YUR GLASSES OR PUT THE PORT DOWN.... NOW!!!! 

    2. rez | May 29, 2005 08:49pm | #18

      And he's never posted and been here lurking since '98?

      Time for a prize.

       

      "I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."

      1. Piffin | May 30, 2005 04:30am | #28

        send him a test email and see if I get it. Got me to wondering if maybe I had once registered in the old webX system as PFN and it got carried through in the changeover... 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. rez | May 30, 2005 05:10am | #29

          Just sent.

          Delivery failure notification on the return mail with

          [email protected] as the addy.

          "I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."

          Edited 5/29/2005 10:17 pm ET by razzman

          1. Piffin | May 30, 2005 06:14am | #30

            not me - never been to UKfun trying eh? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. rez | May 30, 2005 01:01pm | #31

            Where'd IMERC pick PFN up anyhow?

            be UK:unknown

            "I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."

          3. Piffin | May 30, 2005 02:16pm | #32

            Mt email ady is PFN@_____
            so he probably had that one stuck in his mind for a minute 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. WorkshopJon | May 28, 2005 01:22pm | #4

    DSasha,

    A second on the penofin, but spar varnish? on decking?  That's a first.

    WSJ

    1. DustinThomps | May 28, 2005 03:17pm | #5

      The helmsman spar varnish is a crappy product for "exterior" use, imo.  Cabot's australian timber oil is designed for oily dense woods, and it is tinted.  The mahogany flame color is purdy nice.  I have used it on mangaris mahogany and it is a nice looking product.

      Dustin

      1. wrudiger | May 28, 2005 07:31pm | #6

        What kind of life do you get out of the Cabot's Australian Timber Oil before needing to recoat?  My Arch and GC are recommending it but I was leaning more towards Penofin or TWP because of all the positive comments here.  OF course, Maine is about as far as you can get from the weather conditions in central CA, but still...

        1. DustinThomps | May 29, 2005 01:08am | #12

          Here in Maine, it seems you can get about 3 or so years before recoating.  For the record, I have never actually used it on Ipe, but have used it multiple times on mangaris mahogany. 

          Dustin

          1. wrudiger | May 29, 2005 01:31am | #13

            Dustin,

            Thanks for the reply - 3 years is great!  We don't have the freeze/thaw issues but to have more UV.  I've got to believe that if it works on the mahogany it will do well on similar woods - I'm actually using Machiche, a Central American hardwood with characteristics similar to Ipe. 

            Wayne

          2. woodguy99 | May 29, 2005 03:23am | #14

            If you know anyone who finishes interior wood floors he might be willing to sand your deck down for you.  Not exactly a job for a random-orbit sander.  Or you can rent a floor sanding machine at a tool rental place.

             

            Mike

    2. sasha | May 29, 2005 12:03am | #9

      sounds as though penofin is the product of choice, but what about the existing treatment.  For penofin to work, the varnish obviously has to go.  what about the oil based stain?

  5. jms | May 29, 2005 06:26am | #15

    I have Ipe as my treads and pickets for our front outside stairs. I've
    had it now for 3 years in the Seattle Area. I have to pressure wash and restain every year so far (and this year doesn't look any different.

    I've been using Penofin both for my cedar siding and my Ipe.

    Anyway, that my DYI-er's 2 cents worth.

    BTW: I don't see any wear on the treads - it's amazing.

  6. Piffin | May 29, 2005 08:36pm | #16

    spar varnish is used here on the yachts, but yachtsnmen have a personal affair going with their boats and know from the start that they will need to redo them every year or two. Spar varnish is a surface filming finish and will be expected to do exactly what you describe.

    I use the penofin and they have tinted and exotic woods formulas

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. sasha | May 29, 2005 08:50pm | #19

      Thanks for the tip on the Penofin exotic woods formula.  I'd missed that before.  But it sounds exactly what the doctor ordered for my deck.  For anyone else, I found this page describing the product as well as some others.

      http://www.woodnewengland.com/penofin/penoexo.htm

      In South Carolina Builders First Source is listed as a supplier.  I'll check this out after the holdiay. 

      1. User avater
        DDay | May 30, 2005 04:15am | #27

        Go to the penofin website, http://www.penofin.com/  The hardwood formula is very good but may darken the wood some, the marine oil is the same but will not darken the wood, its a clear finish.  Either one you'll be fine, I use the marine because I want the medium color rather than the darker.  If you have any really specific questions, they have very good customer service

         

         

    2. DustinThomps | May 30, 2005 12:40am | #21

      I ain't no boat buildah, and don't claim to be, but I would bet a pretty penny that the boatbuilders and owners here in Maine seldom use the minwax spar varnish.  Every exterior application of that product I have seen has had dismal results.  I had a roommate that worked for several boatbuilding yards, and he recommended a couple good spar varnishes, but I don't remember the names.  Anybody out there familiar with any good products?

      Dustin

      1. Piffin | May 30, 2005 01:42am | #22

        I did not see the specific name Minwax originally, but the samew thing still applies - that spar varnish brightwork needs to be redone every year or two. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. DustinThomps | May 30, 2005 01:52am | #23

          I concur on the refinishing, just saying I wasn't too impressed with the minwax product itself.  Boats definitely take a beating, hot, cold, wet, dry!  I'm surprised some of the finishes hold up so long.

          Dustin

          1. Piffin | May 30, 2005 02:10am | #24

            Teak or tung oil is better because it cures IN the wood instead of ON the surface. Any film finish is subject to failure after the tinyest split aor crack lets water and weather in. UV dries it to crack. Wood movements from sailing stresses open the crack, water gets in, then krinkles happen...finish flakes up and away. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      2. Danusan11 | Jun 14, 2005 03:19am | #42

        flagship spar

        1. DustinThomps | Jun 14, 2005 03:58am | #43

          Is flagship the company?  I'll have to check that out, and thanks for the heads up.

          Dustin T

  7. Tom7 | May 30, 2005 03:08am | #25

    Another product to consider is TWP 116 Rustic Red.  It is highly recommended by Kansas City deck contractor John Hyatt who lays down lots of Ipe.  Go to the following web site for many posts on the topic:

    http://www.homeressources.com/forum/list.php?f=7

    I put down 5/4 x 6 Ipe a year ago on a deck.  I used TWP 116 and am extremely pleased with the results.  It maintains the nice reddish-brown Ipe color and has a nice sheen to it.  Like all these products, it does need to be recoated once a year.  I just did the recoating and it was so easy.  Just wiped down with TSP/water cleaner to remove surface dirt and wiped on a fresh coat with a rag.  You do have to be careful when applying all these products not to get it too thick as it will take far too long to dry.  Looks good as new and good for another year.  I bought mine at an ICI Paint store.  A Google search will reveal sources in your area.  It is around $20 a gallon, much more reasonable than Penofin.

    As for letting Ipe go gray, I am not in favor of that.  It is just so gorgeous coated that I could not let it go gray and develop the surface checking that it does if uncoated.  Coating with TWP 116 is so easy it would be a shame not to maintain the beauty of the wood.

    By the way, it is really stupid to put a film forming product such as a varnish on a deck or porch.  It will be guaranteed trouble as it will flake and peel meaning quite a bit of time to sand it off.  I used TWP 116 and don't expect to ever have that problem.

    1. jms | Jun 04, 2005 04:49pm | #34

      I "googled" TWP 116 Rustic Red and can't find it; can you provide a link or name?

      1. Tom7 | Jun 04, 2005 05:24pm | #35

        http://mfgsealants.com/amteco.htm?referrer=google

        http://www.gemini-coatings.com/products/twp/twp.html

        http://www.opwdecks.com/twpwoodsealers.htm

        1. jms | Jun 05, 2005 12:16am | #37

          Mahalo nui loa (thank you very much)

  8. firedude | May 30, 2005 03:20am | #26

    Helmsman is supposed to be pretty good varnish but it's probably not made to "walked" on and the brightwork on a boat usually gets painted either every year or every other year. I read something about finishing ipe (although I forget where) and the key thing was to prep it with some kind of solvent to clean off the oil so the finish can penetrate - think I'd use some kind of oil rather than a film forming finish -

  9. PatricKinOnt | Jun 04, 2005 08:09pm | #36

    HI Sasha,

    Although I'm only a DIYer, I built a 700 sq ft IPE deck last year.  I used the Penofin Exterior Hardwood product and it worked out great.  The initial coat went on late last summer and this spring I power washed it and gave it another coat 3 days later.  It looks fantastic. According to the mfg, you re-apply it once the boards start to look like they are drying out.  Read and follow the directions exactly and you'll be very happy.

    Since there was varnish on the wood prior, you may want to ask around here what would be the best way to prep the surface.  Mine was new wood, so it was straight forward.

    Good luck,

    P.

    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

    Sir Winston Churchill

    1. sasha | Jun 05, 2005 01:24am | #38

      Patrick - Thanks for the confirmation on the Penofin treatment.  That's the direction I'm heading at this point. - Sasha

  10. mpwangler | Jun 14, 2005 05:56pm | #45

    I installed tongue and groove Red Balau (Mangaris) this past Spring. I installed the flooring and let it sit a week. A bit of rain on the deck raised the grain, then I knocked off the whole porch (8' x 42') with my Bosch 5" ROS (It only took 2.5 hours!) I then put down the Flood CWF-UV sealer. It looks real nice.  I wanted to seal it up prior to working on the roof. 

    I'll probably look to use a penetrating oil on it once I get the roof completed.

     

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