Replies

1. 
   MarkH | Mar 18, 2006 06:11am | #1

   I hear you can camoflage a lot of stuff with paint.  Very fine bristles, 3 or so colors.  Look at a book on refinishing. 

1. 
   rasconc | Mar 18, 2006 06:58am | #2

   Thanks but paint would not be a challenge, this is stained.  The edge of the football sucks up more stain that the surrounding areas and stands out.  If it had more grain you could faux up a little grain with stain to camo the football.  It seems like there was a way to seal that area.  I may try a test patch in the morning.

   I have two Bob Flexner books on finishing but did not see anything.  I guess the real pros do not have to deal with this(:-).

1. 
   BillHartmann | Mar 18, 2006 07:24am | #3

   You could seal the whole thing with shellac or similar.Then apply a gell stain.You could ask Jeff Jewitt over on his forum. Homesteadfinishing.com or something like that.But that is one of the basic ways that they handle difficult woods. Seal it and apply the color on a different layer(s).

1. 
   rasconc | Mar 18, 2006 07:34am | #4

   Thanks.  I am halfway through this thing and cannot changes stains and colors.  I am using golden pecan with 3 oz of early American added on birch.  It comes out almost a maple.  I managed to dodge most of the dutchmen but have a couple that are in places that you can see.  I think I will try a little poly and then sand, the poly should still be in the seam after sanding. 

2. 
   BillBrennen | Mar 18, 2006 09:07am | #6

   rasconc,If you reread Mark's post, it should become clear that he is describing a process of painting grain lines over the boundaries of the few visible footballs on your project, with the goal of concealing their outlines. I'm sure he is not recommending covering the project all over with paint.Bill

1. 
   MarkH | Mar 18, 2006 02:24pm | #7

   That's exactly what I meant, but I think it would be very time consuming.  It could work though.  It's a common practice used by refinishers to cover up shellac hot patches, and defects.  I don't do that kind of work, but I think a base color to cover the edge of the football, and a couple or 3 other colors to blend the line would keep it from being obvious.

2. 
   rasconc | Mar 18, 2006 04:16pm | #9

   Appreciate your help, I figured that out about halfway through my reply.  I did mention the lack of grain in the ply and not being able to faux some without being noticable.  This stuff is what I believe they call Russian Birch and is pretty much white. 

   Edited 3/18/2006 10:42 am ET by rasconc

1. 
   Brian | Mar 19, 2006 03:02pm | #12

   For all the work this sounds like, could you buy a sheet of birch and replace the panels? 

   Also, I've never seen footballs in baltic birch.  I'd be disappointed with my supplier - this is cabinet grade wood.

    

    Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!

2. 
   rasconc | Mar 19, 2006 03:47pm | #13

   Probably right.  Whole thing has been a learning experience.  Have a feeling this is really a bunch of seconds.  What do you want for $26 for a 5x5 sheet.  Most of it is my bad.  Trying to lay out for efficiency and not noticing the few I am talking about.  I should have recut and used these pieces for something else.  Most were 60" x 10" pieces.  Could have been converted to shelves.  This project is for bookcases to go in a sunroom. 

   The customer would have been happy with much lesser grade items than I was ready to make.  Will not be submitting to Fine Woodworking but they look pretty good anyway. 

   Thanks.

   Bob

3. 
   mrfixitusa | Mar 19, 2006 06:18pm | #14

   In the past I've tried finishing "non furntire grade" various types of woods.I don't remember how we did it but about 10 years ago I had the guy at the paint store add small amounts of paint to varnish and the end result was a look of stained and varnished wood but you coulnd't see any grain patterns.This was something we did to cover up unattractive grain patterns douglas fir, cheap plywood grain, or soft maple or popular or whatever.
   ^^^^^^

4. 
   rasconc | Mar 19, 2006 07:43pm | #15

   Thanks.  I put some stainable glue on the two areas (one on each piece in question) and sanded them.  Will see how it works out.  It is easier to doctor an area lacking stain than one with way too much.

5. 
   Sphere | Mar 19, 2006 11:52pm | #16

   Another old trick is to make it MORE obvious, like you intended it to be there all along....so, I'd add the laces and a Wilson logo. (G)

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   " the best investment in life, is a handle on love''

6. 
   BryanSayer | Mar 20, 2006 12:00am | #17

   and maybe a minature signature, like John Elway or Sammy Baugh....

7. 
   rasconc | Mar 20, 2006 02:08am | #18

   I could draw a Cheshire Cat using the football for a grin.  Maybe I will come up with a logo that can use the shape. 

8. 
   Sphere | Mar 20, 2006 02:14am | #19

   Puuuurrrr-fect!

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   " the best investment in life, is a handle on love''

2. 
   desertmaster | Mar 18, 2006 07:54am | #5

   Rasconc,

      I have never tried this trick on the "footballs" in plywood veneer, but have used it for hiding the dutchman patches I have had to make in furniture building.  ( I guess "hiding" is not the right word,  "camofluage" would be a better description):

        Use a large forstner bit and drill a shallow hole somewhere near the center of the football.  Look through your scrap wood of the same species and find a solid knot that will fit within the hole just drilled.  With a plug cutter and drill press, cut out the knot and glue it in the hole in the football and sand it flush.  This, of course, does nothing to repair the original football patch, but the eye of the viewer will see the knot and overlook the patch.   Experiment on a scrap piece and see how it works.      Gary

         

1. 
   rasconc | Mar 18, 2006 04:27pm | #11

   Thanks, that is more effort than this project merits though.  With the ply I am using it would probably be more noticeable because there just are no knots and almost no grain.

3. 
   Danno | Mar 18, 2006 03:56pm | #8

   You could ask your question at the Knots forum, but I just got my latest issue of some woodworking mag and they talked about painting on a mixture of ten parts water to one part carpenters glue to stop uneven absorption of stain. That may work.

1. 
   rasconc | Mar 18, 2006 04:24pm | #10

   Thanks, I used the Minwax pre-stain conditioner which is basically thinned down shellac.  It helps with overall stain blending (getting rid of splotchyness) but does not do the fine line around the patch.  I have been using the Elmers stainable glue which I think will do the trick.  Smear it around the football, let dry and sand, then stain.  That cut-in line just soaks up the stain and looks like you outlined it with a fine magic marker. 

   Some of these patches are so good you almost do not see them until finishing.

4. 
   Brian | Apr 04, 2006 04:53am | #20

   I stand corrected - last week we bought a pile of 1/2" baltic and there were footballs (although more oval than usual) in about half of it on one side.

   Not a problem, but I thought baltic didn't have these...

    

   Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
1. 
   rasconc | Apr 04, 2006 06:14am | #21

   Thanks.  My idea of glue and or filler did not do anything that I could tell.  A buddy that works at the plywood plant said that to make it worse many of the patches on the birch were poplar which would explain a staining differential in addition to the cut line.

   That project is in the bank thank goodness.  I do have to deliver an afterthought shelf for a TV that I finished today.

   Bob