Hello everyone,
I am the daughter of a contributing writer to FHB – Larry Haun – and he suggested I post a note here on Breaktime to see if I could get some feedback on the job we are doing here at our house in L.A.
We have a 1911 craftsman style home and we are currently stripping down all of the wood in our living room/dining room area – all of which had been painted over.
It looks beautiful – but here’s where we are stuck:
- We are not sure if the wood is Oak or Douglas Fur.
- We are unsure about what type & color of finish/stain we should use.
If you have worked on any of these types of old houses and have any suggestions on what works and/or what didn’t work in terms of finishing the wood – we would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you!
Risa Haun
Replies
In my part of the country Craftsman style homes of that era typically had oak. Oak has characteristic graining that is readily recognizable. Can you wipe some mineral spirits on some of the bare wood and take a close up photo to post here?
Mike K
My sister is doing that to a quasi Victorian home. The oak was usually stained and you'll want to try to not make this look uneven. Probably won't be successful so you'll have to put a new coat of stain on to even out the color. This is going to be a job. Fine Woodworking just discussed some methods for fixing uneven staining. Then I'd recommend two or three coats of 2lb cut shellac (thin coats with a swiftly moving brush and don't go over any mistakes until it dries) and two coats of water based acrylic finish.
Thank you to everyone for your responses. I tried several times to download some pictures of the wood work in our home (Los Angeles) - but to no avail. The grain does look like the wood in the pictures that the last person posted (thank you for those pic's). So I am thinking that the wood is Douglas Fir.
Thanks for all of the feedback. When we initially stripped the wood, there was a dark colored stain on it. Since then, they have sanded it some and it's a little lighter.
Does anyone know what type/name brand of stain that is good?
Risa
Edited 9/17/2007 8:39 pm ET by RisaHaun
First thing I would try is orange shellac.
You can get it at HD, get a gallon of denatured alcohol too.
It is the easiest finish available, screw ups are easily fixed and it dries in minutes.
Get a quart of it and some scrap wood from from the wood pile and try it. For less than $20 you're in biz.
Find a plastic container like sour cream or cottage cheese come in, Cut a hole in the lid the brush will fit through and leave it in alcohol between coats.
If the brush dries up, add alcohol to container and it will soften back up in a bit.
It's pretty close to the color you're looking for right out of the can, if you want darker you can get garnet shellac but you won't find that at HD.
It will go on over just about any stain too so experiment.
If your original wood is fir it's easy enough to find some scraps to experiment with. Won't be the same grain but same wood.
Joe H
I agree with the orange shellac, but I've never seen it at HD. Shellac is a great finish, but not especially thrifty. I'm paying about $22 a pound, plus about $14 per gallon for the alcohol. So a gallon of two pound cut runs me about $60.Orange shellac does darken some with age. How long and how dark, I'm not sure. But I do know the wood we have stripped and refinished in orange shellac is still substantially lighter than our old wood.I found garnett to have too much red. It leaves a pinkish hue, at least on yellow pine. And yellow pine looks similar to Douglas fir.Sometimes we add TransTint dye to darken the color. It does seem to effect the flow out a bit.I use Homestead Finishes in Ohi.
HD calls it Amber, not Orange. The average HD shopper would never buy an Orange finish so they changed it to Amber. Same thing, different name.
Amber and orange are the same in some lines, and are very similar. But some lines of shellac have both, so I assume there is some very slight difference.
Have you considered Tung Oil? Wipe on. Wipe off. Light sanding between 4 or so coats will look great with almost any wood species....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
I have a 1912 bungalow and I recently refinished my dining room. It was painted and I stripped it down and had it refinished. Being some what anal about my restoration I was looking at all types of "historical finishes. Shellac, stains, dyes and what ever. I hired a furniture restoration person to do the final finishing and we made up about 15 samples of different types of finishes. Of all the finishes, the one that looked the best to me was the MinWax stain with a lacquer finish. Go figure. We used that in the dining room and it looks pretty good. He used the MacLaq "hand rubbed" lacquer that gives it a hand rubbed look finished with a hand rubbed wax.In my case it was critical that we used a pre-conditioner on the wood as it was pretty dry and was going to be splotchy without it. even with the pre-conditioner, it had some splotchyness but we could even it out with some toners.In regards to the original colors, Ragnar has got it right but I just want to add that the colors we see today are darkened from what was applied originally. At least in my case when I uncovered some original stain it was a very light stain and not the darker colors that we associated with a bungalow. The traditional finishes will darker over the years due to various factors. Myself I went with the darker shades to replicate the "aged" look that would be here today.If you want to hang out with some fellow bungaloids, check out the American Bungalow website. There are some web boards there and you can find a lot of tips for your bungalow there. It's mostly DIY folks so you won't get the sage advice of the pros like you do here.Diane
the one that looked the best to me was the MinWax stain with a lacquer finish.
What color of MinWax stain? It comes in many different flavors.
Let me find out. It was a custom mix of a couple of flavors. I need to get the recipe anyway as I need it as I extend into the other rooms.Diane
My wife calls American Bungalow "House ####".
When we initially stripped the wood, there was a dark colored stain on it. Since then, they have sanded it some and it's a little lighter.
That makes sense, because the sanding will remove some dimension from the outer surface of the wood.
Although I believe it's true that the old finishes used to darken with age, I think that even when new back in the 1910s, the finishes were dark by today's standards.
An excellent book that may be of help to you is The Bungalow by Paul Duchscherer & Douglas Keister. They have at least one other book in the same vein called Inside the Bungalow. They are primarily picture books, but also have lots of informative text. Your local library might have them, too, of course.
Edited 9/7/2007 1:16 am ET by Ragnar17
here at our house in L.A.
Is that Los Angeles or Louisiana?
Here in Seattle, 1910s Craftsman homes had Doug fir in probably 95% of the homes. Every once in a while there's a mansion that has some white oak trim, but even then it was typically only in the dining room.
The (fir) trim was nearly always mixed or flat grain, too. Most of the time, it was stained quite dark.
Here's a picture of some stripped fir from a 1910s-era home. The grain pattern is easily recognizable as fir.
View Image
Risa,
Here's a picture to give you an idea of the stain color typically used in the time period. Pictured millwork is Doug fir, of course.
View Image
How did you achieve that finish? Is it a regular stain such as Minwax with a polyurethane over it?
Thanks
Dave
Dave,
It's just garden variety Minwax stain --- "red mahogany" flavor. I put on a heavy coat and then two or three coats of solvent-borne polyurethane finish (in my experience, the solvent borne finish results in a harder surface that is less vulnerable to scratches, etc.)
I don't have broad experience with staining/finishing, but I'm happy with the results.
For anyone interested, here's another pic of a 1910s era Craftsman house in Seattle.
The pilasters in the arched opening still have the original stain and finish; a local paint/finishing manufacturer mixed up some stain to match the color. Note that the window sash are new, and the window casings were refinished. All millwork is Doug fir.
View Image
I think typically oak was used; however, your home could be different.
Oak is pretty easy to identify. Oak has flecks in the grain, short, 1/4 inch or less dashes, if you will. Fir with have long straight grain lines.
My cousin's house in Santa Rosa has mahogany trim, so while white oak and doug fir were popular, not sure if anything was typical<G>A lot of oak I've seen was fumed with ammonia, but there are safer kits available to simulate that now.The fir was most likely shellaced. Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
My cousin's house in Santa Rosa has mahogany trim, so while white oak and doug fir were popular, not sure if anything was typical<G>
I'm sure the region played a major role in which species of trim was used.
What year was your cousin's home built? By the mid to late 1920s, the Tudor revival was in full swing, and the dominant species used in them was mahogany. So maybe if your cousin's house was from that same time period it would help explain the choice of trim.
Interesting, I'll find out... I've been in couple of others in Palo Alto that also had mahogany. Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish they'd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I can't help it if I'm lucky.
FWW website had a video that showed how to stain oak with ammonia fumes. If you were constructing furniture then you could use that. The ammonia method gives the typical Craftsman look. On the trim it would not be practical. Check it out though.
Buy a small piece of oak from your local source. Compare the grain to what is in your house after you sand it. Oak has a very open grain.
Also, if you can press in on the wood with a fingernail or a similar object, you should not be able to leave much of an impression if it is oak.
Finally, if you can remove a small piece somewhere, take it to a cabinet shop or a Woodcraft store and have them give you an opinion. That is probably your best bet.
What??? All this talk about stain and no one's acknowledging that this is Larry Haun's daughter?
Risa, if it wasn't for your dad, I wouldn't be in the mess that I'm in today! Seriously, his book is so dog eared, I have all of it memorized- photos and all. You should be very proud!
When I was framing my own house I had some experienced carpenters helping and they noticed a couple old-school tricks and techniques I used and asked "where'd you learn how to do that?" I just replied that I read about in a book somewhere. Way too proud to admit that I spent hours pagng through The Very Efficient Carpenter.
no one's acknowledging that this is Larry Haun's daughter
I think it's commendable that the responses were given without regard to her heritage. Hopefully we treat everyone the same. ut you're right, it's interesting to see her posting.
Risa - it's spelled fir not fur. "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I have to second that - I've always been a HUGE fan of your dad's. Hope I can help you!
Here's a pic of a trial bookcase I built using a technique from FH. It's new white oak, both dyed and stained - I love the look, and no ammonia.
View Image
It's straightforward to do, but I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for.
If it is, I can dig up the issue.
Forrest
Edited 9/6/2007 8:35 pm by McDesign