I just cut a template to have a granite/marble bench top in front of the fireplace cut and finished by a frabricator. This bench or hearth will be elevated about 18″ and as one can see from the attached image, is curved. My question though is what about framing for this?
I mean if it was just a rectangle in front the fireplace, that would be pretty straighforward framing-wise, or at least I think it would be. Now with the curve, do I pattern the curve say in some 2 X 10 or 2 x 12 lumber with the template, creating a minature top and bottom-plate? Then frame in some 2 x 4 supports for 3/4″ plywood on top before putting down the granite/marble? I was thinking of putting a kind of ledger under the fireplace box where the straight-edge is for the backside support, but then need to tie-in the front (the curved part framing) and the back part (the straight-edge/ mini-ledger).
I figure once I do the framing I can scribe some 1/2″ Hardi-Back Board to make the bend and nail in vertically where I will tile the curb (probably in 4″ or so strips to make the curve) with the granite/marble on top. Also, when I lay that granite/marble on top, what kind of reveal to a leave? Say 3/4″, 1″, or ?
I’m not sure the right approach to take for framing this up. It’s one of those things where I feel like I will be planning as I’m sawing and hammering, probably changing my approach midway through. Anyway, if anyone can point me in a more clear direction, I will be indebted like I already am here.
Replies
Your approach sounds fine. The normal overhang on a granite countertop is 1 1/2" so I guess it would be the same here. The problem you'll have is figuring how much to leave for the cement board and tile. It'll be kind of hard to figure with the curve as you're going to have to use a thick coat of thin set to set those tiles. I'm surprised you didn't build the frame 1st so you could work out any problems, then order the granite top. This way you have to be exact to fit what you already ordered.
active, some good points. Actually though, given an over-hang measurement, I can just work backwards--I thought about this and figured I wanted to commit to the top (granite/marble) first, and with an overhang, kinda adjust slightly when I lay the latter down. You should see in the pic that there are surfaces/wall edges to either side of the box. I don't know that I need too much accomodation for thinset; I just figured 1/4" for tile and 1/2" for backerboard, plus over course the over-hang.
Piffin, excellent points and I was thinking of your approach, I just didn't know if it was cool to kind of go the "wall" route which I have done the latter for my sister, when "sistering" an arch that was partially existing in her opening of kitchen to dining area. My only concern is that with the "wall" approach, there will be a "load" consideration in my application. Granted, it isn't much, maybe a 22" span...and on that note, good point about the hearth spec's: I took that into account where you see in the image, I drew out 19 1/4" (18" finish) with the two black lines to accommodate that hearth spec as per my firebox.
Also, I like your 6" OC idea, I was thinking of 16" OC or a little less, and then somehow bridging the front and back together, but maybe with all the lumber with 6" OC I can bypass this?
Anyway, I've got a "slab" of 1 1/8" plywood to work with that was left last week during my driveway pour; yeah, I don't know why either, it's not like it was use during the pour.
So you liked all four of my points, eh?
The Prospero meltdown was just beginning, so I kept trying with no confirmed results. Next thing I knew, we were all going through withdrawal...
Placing studs closer together on curves helps maintain a smoother arch face. I suppose it doesn't ake too many more to just make the whole curved backing for the tile a segmented ach, with the benefit that it woull handle that much more loading.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
piffin, I took your direction, framed the whole thing up in a few hours, put it in front of the firebox to secure and freaked! To frame for an overhang I moved my template down the plywood two inches, but geometry (radi) being what it is, my "underhang" did not follow the template line i.e. there was two inches in front, but worked to only one inch as you moved to the sides. Thus, I spent another hour ripping everything apart, jigsawing the plywood again and then reassembling and installing in front of the box. I keep meaning to post a digital of the framing which I will do tomorrow morning, Saturday.
Thanks again...
piffin et al, here's the framing results. I also put a piece of 2 X 6 running back to front for a little extra support for the top. I thought today I would screw in some 5/8" sheetrock along the front and then tile. I've installed curved sheetrock in an arch, but not an outside curve. What I thought I would do is score the sheetrock back with a small "V" to aid in making the radius. Anyway, that's my thought.
Probably to late, but you could have probably used (2) 1/4" pieces of tile backer on the front of your bench. This would give you a 1/2" and would probably bend easier.
Dan "Life is what happens when you are making other plans." - John Lennon
dan, actually, you're not too late; I got sidetracked on something else this afternoon. I had thought of the 1/4 hardiback board which I have on site, but thought I would then be installing twice. Then I went to HD and was just about ready to purchase some 1/2 hardi board and thought, man is that stuff going to be hard to scribe and bend. That's when the sheetrock thing hit me. It seems what I've read here on Breaktime is that it is cool anyway to install on sheetrock walls, non-wet area parts of bathrooms and counter backsplashes. I don't know, I suppose tile and its thinset will adhere better to hardiback board, but figured the sheetrock will be adequate for this application.
Well, last evening I tried to "wrap" the 5/8" sheetrock around my radius, but to no avail. I scored the rock vertically at about every 3" and when I went to screw in, it didn't really follow the curve, kind of "kinked" as some of the scores. So then I took Dan's suggestion and repeated this process with some 1/4" hardiback board and scored on 1" intervals, following the factory lines pressed in the board. Same kind of thing; trying to make the turn just wasn't fluid and I could see installing 4 X 16" tile being problematic.
Soooooooo, my next thought is maybe metal lathing the front and using some Portland based product? Maybe a stucco product? Was wondering how I would apply this? I've got a thinset trowl where I could use the smooth end, or perhaps a grout float? I was thinking of putting a thin "brown coat" to just cover the lathe, then put on another thin coat, scratching it before installing tile once everything is dry.
Anyway, any other considerations?
I was too tired when I first read about that thought to let it make a dent in my mental fluid so I didn't mention it. SR woun't bend that way. You need to use 14" and wet it down while it hangs over a barrel of about the same curvature. Two plies of that to get your surface ready for mud.
alternately, you could use 1/4" plywood or a bending plywood or masonite and then mud over that with the Durabond.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
piffin, the 1/4" rock, two applications did the trick. I wet the stuff, let it sit flat and "worked" it a bit into a curve, then started at one end (duh) and secured with screws. I almost feel like back charging you for making me go through the exercise of using the 5/8" rock and then failure on the 1/4" hardiback board; where should I send the invoice? <g> I would provide a picture, but don't think it is that big of a deal.
Any tilers maybe could let me know what to secure the tile with? I think a thinset would work, but maybe a mastic of some sort is more appropriate for a vertical tile application???
thinset is always best.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
You are gpoing to kick this or drop a chunck of firewood against it one or twice. Use thinset.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks gents...should get on the tiling in the next week or so. Waiting for some other tile to come in to HD (hopefully this lot won't walk away along with my cart) and only want to rent a tile cutter once for these two small (well, we'll see about that happening) jobs.
I would cut out two pieces of plywood with a rdius probably about 2.5" less than the template for the granite. The accual set back will nbe for you to figure out from depth of your facing materials and about a one inch over hang.
These pieces of ply are your top and bottom plates.
Think of this hearth as a wall, and cut a bunch of studs for it. place a stud at about every 6" OC around the outer arc section and three or four evenly spaced along the back side.
before taking the template to the fabricator, be sure that it meets local codes for hearths. It looks to be on the minimum side from here. Most places, it would be 12" to side of firebox openning and 18" to front.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I would cut out two pieces of plywood with a rdius probably about 2.5" less than the template for the granite. The accual set back will nbe for you to figure out from depth of your facing materials and about a one inch over hang.
These pieces of ply are your top and bottom plates.
Think of this hearth as a wall, and cut a bunch of studs for it. place a stud at about every 6" OC around the outer arc section and three or four evenly spaced along the back side.
before taking the template to the fabricator, be sure that it meets local codes for hearths. It looks to be on the minimum side from here. Most places, it would be 12" to side of firebox openning and 18" to front.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I would cut out two pieces of plywood with a rdius probably about 2.5" less than the template for the granite. The accual set back will nbe for you to figure out from depth of your facing materials and about a one inch over hang.
These pieces of ply are your top and bottom plates.
Think of this hearth as a wall, and cut a bunch of studs for it. place a stud at about every 6" OC around the outer arc section and three or four evenly spaced along the back side.
before taking the template to the fabricator, be sure that it meets local codes for hearths. It looks to be on the minimum side from here. Most places, it would be 12" to side of firebox openning and 18" to front.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I would cut out two pieces of plywood with a rdius probably about 2.5" less than the template for the granite. The accual set back will nbe for you to figure out from depth of your facing materials and about a one inch over hang.
These pieces of ply are your top and bottom plates.
Think of this hearth as a wall, and cut a bunch of studs for it. place a stud at about every 6" OC around the outer arc section and three or four evenly spaced along the back side.
before taking the template to the fabricator, be sure that it meets local codes for hearths. It looks to be on the minimum side from here. Most places, it would be 12" to side of firebox openning and 18" to front.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
could you repeat that I'm not sure I got it?
jim at great white.... now there's a name we don't get to see too often anymore...
have you been laid up for the winter ?
are you comming to meet your peers at RhodeFest in August ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You think he's got it yet???
Another idea, considering it's so unfinished.......
How about a floating hearth?
Finish/tile the floor up to the fire box and up the wall. Don't worry about perfecting a curve.
Have some granite/marble legs made, maybe three, each about 4" wide and deep enough to support the width. Anchor those to the floor and then set the hearth on top. Make the legs fancy with a compound curve - a corbel on the floor.
Too bad your hearth isn't longer. One more support would give you 4 on floor.