Replies

1. 
   andybuildz | Oct 30, 2002 04:22pm | #1

   Craw

         Depends on what kind of wood you plan on burning for starters.If you stick with hardwood for kindling as well as full time burning wood then you should get years before you need any cleaning. I think what your shop is referring to is ......is that to clean the existing flue pipe up to the metal flue pipe will deter you from getting into the transition area. I'm not so sure I agree with that. They might just be wanting to sell you more flue pipe.......yet flue pipe within a chimney is pretty inexpensive so why NOT do that? Is it because its more work? Isn't really all that much more work if you ask me. If it were me, I'd do the entire stack in flue pipe. No need for that expensive metalbestos pipe as its already in an insulated area. Hope the fireplace shop isn't trying to sell you the expensive stuff. $50 for a 30" section or something similar

   I'd like to her other responses.

    Be well

            Namaste'

                      Andy

   It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   crawdad12 | Oct 30, 2002 05:53pm | #2

   Thanks Andy.  We do burn hardwood around here though scrap 2x's are used for kindling.    My understanding is that with only a partial liner, as the chimney is cleaned the debris from the masonry chimney will simply fall and lay on the original f.p. damper or on the top of the insert.  Without pulling the insert out of the f.p. there would be no way to retrieve that debris.   I dont think the guy was trying to sell me on either method, just pointing out that a savings on flu pipe now will lead to increased cleaning cost later, or more labor for myself.     The guy seems like a straight shooter.    I believe the people at the other local shop said the full length liner was required by code, though I can't understand why if I already have a perfectly good chimney.  Yes the stuff is expensive, about 23$ a ft.    It's 6" stainless steel flex pipe and I need 16 ft for the total re-line, so I'd only be saving about 300$ going w/ a short section.  My other concern is that the literature says the unit is designed for a 6" flu,  so I thought going w/ ashort sectio of 6" into the masonry 8"  may affect how the unit burns.   Thanks again

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 30, 2002 09:35pm | #3

   There's more to it than just how easy it is to clean.

   There's some truth that if you keep a hot chimney and use dry hardweood, there will be less creosote buildup. This is true in any installation but that is not the only consideration.

   A stove designed to use say a six inch pipe will draw and burn well with a six inch pipe. If you simply shunt it into a twelve inch chimney flue, you have nearly qualdrupled the volume of the column of air that has to be moved. Smoke drifts slow and lazylike towards the top instead of moving right along. That gives it more time to cool and form tar/creosote deposits called condensate on the side walls of the chimney flue. You WILL GET at least twice as much condensate in this chimney as in a six inch pipe. The condensate forms below a temp of about 450°F so let the smoke linger in the chimney at low temps for long...see what I mean?

   It is lagal some places to do without the liner for an insert but I recommend cleaning it at least once a year if you do..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   andybuildz | Oct 30, 2002 10:20pm | #4

   Piff

         Is "lazylike" really a word? ROFLO...fer some reason that word had me belly achin laughin

   (Just checked with "spell check and it seems you invented a new word,,,gawd you so rock.....lol)

   Craw,

          Cleaning out a flu pipe is real easy. Just buy yourself a good wire flu brush and pole attachments. I've done it a zillion times and its cake and peace of mind.

     When I lived up top a mountain one year in the Blue ridge foothills in Virginia (Nelson County). I spent a year helping out an old lady wayyyyy atop a mtn. She taught me how to really clean a chimney. We chopped down a small pine tree a hair bigger the the inside of her old chimneys in her three log cabins. Tied a rope to the top and to the bottom. I'd climb up onto the roof and drop one rope down to her. She'd pull the pine tree down and then I'd pull it back up. We did this several dozen times till the chimney was spic n span. Pretty cool actually

   Be well

           Namaste'

                      AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 30, 2002 10:32pm | #5

   Andy,

   It's part of the Southern Lexicon.

   ;)

   I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard of folks who tried that one but got too big a tree and got it stuck. On of our neighbors (maybe this should be in crazy construction techniques) did it and then figured that the way to puill it out was to tie the rope from out the top of the chimney to his bumper and pull.

   LOL

   He discovered a new way to remove a chimney from a house..

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   crawdad12 | Oct 30, 2002 10:40pm | #7

   OK Andy. I think I'll buy my own brush, I'd probably have a hard time getting somebody here in a timely fashion.  Thanks for the info.  

2. 
   crawdad12 | Oct 30, 2002 10:34pm | #6

    Thanks for the advice Piffin.   Although I didn't know all the technical stuff about temperatures and condensate I figured that a 6" into a larger  chimney could affect the draw so I went ahead and ordered the full length pipe.  Seemed like the extra $300 would be money well spent, your information confirms that.   should this still be cleaned once a year?  Also, I don't know if this chimney has ever been cleaned, should I pay to have it professionally cleaned before I install the liner or could I just buy a brush and rods and knock off the big stuff myself before installation?    In an unrelated matter ,  I've noticed that you're a resident of Maine.   The wife and I have been wanting to visit there for some time now.   I'm off the week before Christmas and if my project is coming along and the money is available I might try and make my way up there.  The wife loves snow.  Any recommendations on places we might stay or see?   Is availability tight around Christmas?    We're not into anything fancy,something relaxing  with some shops for the wife to spend our money.    I also seem to recall thet you were once a Coloradan.   I lived there from 82-87.   Its beautiful country and I loved the weather.   Moved back east whenthe economy turned sour, now I couldn't afford to move back.  It was a great time in my life exept for meeting the first wife out there, awful woman.  But, Iwas young and stupid then. I'm much older now.   Take care.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 30, 2002 10:49pm | #8

   Most open fireplace chimneys get nothing more than soot because of the voluminous draft and hot fire. A quick knockdown is probably sufficient. Most chimney sweeps still recommend cleaning and inspection once a year. Softwoods or green wood can bump that up to three or four times a year. It's good if your installation allows you to use a mirror to inspect it all the way to the top. My chimney has not needed cleaning for three years because I burn hot hardwoods in a stove on a masonry chimney. Your steel insert will be surronded by cooler air so it will build up more quickly.

   Where people get this romantic notion that Christmass in Maine is wonderful is beyond me.

   ;)

   Some people enjoy it and others quake at the memory. Camden is a quyiet, quaint town near me that people enjoy. It has harbor, boats, shops, B&Bs, etc.

   But things are kind of dead in winter - Well there's the Camden Snow Bowl - but it's nothing like Colorado.

   I was there in '75(?) to '87 Kremmling and Montrose. Have worked a lot of the west slope.

   Sorry i canb't say muich more about Maine. I'm stuck on an island and when I leave it's to go away. Maine has some nice country but I'm less knowledgeable about it than CO.

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   crawdad12 | Oct 31, 2002 12:30am | #9

   Oh, I don't really have any romantic notions about Maine at Christmas time.   We've been to N.H. and Vermont and would like to see Maine.  I've got 5 more years to do with the police dept and I can take a 20 Yr retirement if I choose.   We'd like to relocate and one of the areas we like is New England.  I just hope I can take 5 more yrs of police work.  I'll only be 44 and am looking forward to making a a career change to the carpentry field.  Anyway thanks for the tip on Camden.    I make it out o Co to visit friends every few yrs.  Spent a week hunting in the mountains outside of Kremmling in 99.   After 5 days in the hills we went into town and  paid $5 for a shower at a little hotel and hit the local watering hole.   Don't remember the name of either of them but it's a nice little town.

3. 
   Piffin | Oct 31, 2002 01:03am | #10

   I stopped back in this summer for the first time in over ten years. It's actually gone downhill since I was there.

   That's where I was a reserve cop for a few years. First place I stopped in was the police chiefs home. Good way to catch up quick.

   The hotel was probably the Eastin - across street from the bank?

   Hank Eastin just died and I think they're closiong it down.

   You could retire here. We have almost no crime but need a cop someday - almost more of a hospitality position combined with babysitting the local teenagers who do what teens do..

   Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   andybuildz | Oct 31, 2002 01:22am | #11

   Piff

          Sorry to once again get off the subject but my favorite book in the world that I read half a dozen times was Pappion (wish I could spell it.....lol)...by Henri Cheri a french dude. Way better then the movie..I was so enthrolled in the story that I looked Henri up.......Check out his following book called "Banco" his life after he escaped Devils Island. Dude so rocked. What a life. Hint hint...I heard through my grapevine that a whole lot of it all is jive......but none the less....great story!

    PS...you all might wanna read a book by a man that was near and dear to me that I knew pretty well..........Abbie Hoffman....Books called "Soon to BE a Major Motion Picture".....ok ok.....sorry if ya aint all into my daze.....love ya all anywayz

                  Be well

                           Namaste'

                                  AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

5. 
   Piffin | Oct 31, 2002 02:36am | #12

   Right - a lot of poetic license in Papillion.

   and I can't spell it either..

   Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   crawdad12 | Oct 31, 2002 02:37am | #13

   I agree as far as the quality of life out there going downhill.  Inever spent much time on the west slope,just road trips, hunting etc.     I lived in Golden and Broomfield, both of which were nice little towns...then.     In the intervening years each time I've visited I've been amazed at the growth.   Houses on top of houses and people all over, which I think is becoming a problem all over the west.  People are loving it to death, Isuppose.    As for the police job, no thanks.  It was a bad career choice for me but I have 15 yrs in, too much to walk away, much as I'd like to.     Eastin Hotel does ring a bell but I couldn't swear to it. Sorry to hear it may be closing.