I am remodeling a house built in 1964. I just installed a Carrier Infinity furnace and now I want to put a direct vent gas fireplace insert into each of two masonary fireplaces in the house.
Even though each fireplace insert costs as much as the Carrier furnace, the efficiency of the Carrier is much more advanced than the fieplace inserts — particularly in the use of an electronic ignition versus a standing pilot flame. By my calculations and fireplace specs of 1,000 BTU/hr for fueling the pilot, annual costs for the pilot are over $125 per year.
Is anyone aware of a gas fireplace insert that uses an electronic ignition?
Rhetorically: when other gas-fueled applicances like water heaters and furnaces have pilot-less energy efficient ignitions, why is the gas fireplace industry so complacent?
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I had a rather expensive soapstone gas log stove (2 of them) in my last house. They both came with electric ignition and they both gave me fits. I sent to the co. Vermont Castings, I believe and purchased a changover to pilot light system....then I rebuilt the things. They were then fine.
How is it that furnace companies can make a trouble-free electronic ignition system, but fireplace insert and stove companies can not?I have owned a Carrier furnace for over five years that has worked perfectly and it costs about the same as a fireplace insert from Heat-n-Glow.
There is a specific issue with regard to unvented gas fireplaces: The pilot light in many cases is used as an oxygen sensor, designed to go out (and cut off the gas via the thermocouple) if oxygen levels drop dangerously low. An electronic equivalent would be much more expensive and probably not as trustworthy.
However, many new-construction, direct-vent fireplace inserts come with IPI electronic ignitions. It is only the direct-vent inserts designed for existing fireplaces that require a standing pilot. so, the question is: why is the feature available for one, but not the other?Likewise, if you wan to use the fireplace insert for supplemental heat, why not expect it to be as energy efficient as possible?
One possible explanation is that a "conversion unit" is going into a system, esp the chimney, which was designed for much higher btu loads.Perhaps the pilot light in such a situation helps keep the unit & chimney slightlay warmed to the draft stays positive.(Sort of like how many HVAC guys recommend leaving the pilots on during the summer in furnaces with them to keep them warmed slightly and prevent condenstaion and rust on the heat exchanger.)I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Yeah, that's a point -- the pilot helps maintain a draft. A better way to do it, though, would probably be to have a draft fan that blows room air up the chimney for a few seconds before the burner ignites.
Yeah, but that would take a lot more parts, which cost money, and any one of which could break. Adding complexity is seldom the ideal solution unless it gives you a big increase in value or performance. IMO.
Could be done fairly simply, at little additional cost, and in such a way as to be reasonably failsafe.But your point is a good one. The standard standing pilot system can use a millivolt thermostat setup and requires no electric at all. Pretty simple and with probably 80 years to get to know all the quirks.
I think the pilot does provide some minimal heat to the flue to aid exhaust gas draw. In sealed, direct-vent inserts the hot air from the burning gas will vent up pretty quickly -- especially when it draws combustion air from outside the house.The minimal warmth from the pilot may also help to minimize condensation inside the flue, which would be a problem since most manufacturers use galvanized steel that would eventually start to rust. This condensation problem is why many on-demand water heaters use stainless steel for flues.The standing pilot design makes a lot of sense and is a time-proven design -- but the same can be said for the internal combustion automobile engine and rising oil prices have created quite a demand for alternatives like hybrid gas-electric vehicles. When will rising natural gas prices create the same demand in fireplaces?
An electronic ignition would defeat a primary benefit of a gas fireplace, namely that it does not require electricity to operate and will function as back up heat in the event of a power failure. I wire my unit to a thermostat set at 55°F. If the electricity ever goes out while I'm away in the winter, and the house drops to 55°, the fireplace kicks on and keeps the pipes from freezing. Just in the last ten years I've had winter power failures as long as seven days. If I were not home then and had no backup, my house would have been flooded.
The heat from the pilot is not wasted, it supplements the heat of the house. True, it's less efficient than a modern furnace, but it does provide some heat, particularly in a free-standing stove more so than in a fireplace. And, you don't run the pilot year round, it's only on for the few months you would run the fireplace anyway.
Wouldn't a 12-volt lantern-style battery suffice for the ignition?Yes, heat without electricity is a great backup in the event of a power failure, but for a fireplace insert, the BTUs spent on the pilot provide very little real heat. Most of that heat goes right up the flue. That is -- in a direct vent fireplace insert that is installed into an existing masonary fireplace.