Sorry, I’m just ranting….
OK, so I called to buy some firewood from an ad in the paper. Seasoned, 1/2 cord, I specifically asked for 15-16″-ish long pieces. Dude repeatedly talked about how all this wood had been seasoning for two years. Came from trees knocked down in the tornado (2.5 years ago). Oak, locust, mulberry, a little hackberry and hedge.
Dude wants to deliver it during the day, but can only give me a 2 hour window, so I arrange to have someone there at that time to meet him and pay him. I get there after dark tonight to find….
Hmm… My outdoor rack is 3′ tall by 6’10” wide and I’d left a few pieces on it to hold it down. Now I’m willing to take the phrase “1/2 cord” with a grain of salt and understand that they really mean a “face cord”, but that ain’t even close to a face cord.
My 15-16″ ish pieces seemed to really be anywhere from 19-27″
And when I added 3 pieces to the wood stove, the water just boiled out the ends. Took over an hour for them to dry out enough to really burn.
Dude wasn’t home, so I couldn’t get an explaination. He is supposed to call me. Hasn’t so far.
jt8
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” –Upton Sinclair
Replies
He did a better job of burning then the wood will.
He did a better job of burning then the wood will.
I'm going to start off assuming it was an honest mistake. Maybe someone else loaded the truck and pulled from the wrong pile. But so far I haven't been able to get ahold of him.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
What you say is absolutely true. I was making a bad joke/comment and should have let your post stand.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I was making a bad joke/comment and should have let your post stand.
Your bad joke is more than likely accurate. It took me 5 or 6 tries but I finally got ahold of the dude. Hemmed and hawed and told me that he's delivered that wood to 5 or 6 people and not had a complaint. How
Gave me some BS story about "I don't make anything on the wood, it takes me 3.5 hours to split a pickup load and then 20 mins to load it into the truck and that doesn't include delivery and unloading." When he said that load of ####, I almost told him to come and get his garbage off my property.
Against my better judgement, I told the dude I'd try burning a couple more pieces tomorrow night and see how it goes. My gut reaction is that this was the wrong decision, and I usually do better listening to my gut, but we'll see.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Dude, you'll never see him again.Freeze-drying does have some effect on drying saturated firewood but do yourself a favour and find some dry wood. This stuff will be fine next winter and your chimney will thank you for it.
...What Observer said....If you buy, or cut, your wood in the Spring then you'll have no problem with Winter smoke, creosote, or recalcitrant fires. Otherwise…Caveat Emptor.Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
You want to make life a bit easier on yourself when judging a cord of wood Take two sheets of junk plywood, place one on the ground , prop the other 4" length vertical just behind it . Have the load delivered onto the plywood on the ground and stacked there. No arguing about how much you have. Used to be a common way for the old timers here who had been forced to buy wood due to age/injury.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
the KISS method prevails...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"If you buy, or cut, your wood in the Spring then you'll have no problem with Winter smoke, creosote, or recalcitrant fires"Cutting in spring gives it a fair amount of time to dry thru sumer, but is not really the best time to cut it. Traditional is Jan and Feb, because there is a lot of other work that can't be done then, the horses can sledge the logs out easier on the snow and ice, and because the sap is still in the roots. Come March and april when the sap starts rising, there is more water in the wood and a lot of sugar as well. That sugar (carbon) is one of the primary sources for creosote.
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John
I read the thread thru to see first if anyone else had already mentioned it, but didn't see it.One thing a lot of people miss when they are thinking about burning wet/green wood is that 25-35% of the BTU energy is going to drying the wood in place rather than to heating the house. It takes energy to get the water out of the wood, and lift each molecule all the way to the top of the chimney.So considering the fact that you are buying it for the purpose of heating the house, but getting fewer BTUs of heat energy delivered, you are screwing your self to the tune of 30% of the cost of the wood.
The dealer is also screwing himself in that he uses a lot more fuel in his vehicle to deliver a load that weighs twice as much as dry.
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However you heat your home or office, the best investment is properly installed insullation and control of air infiltration. Indroducing a wood stove into the equation requires that additional air enter the envelope, the closer to the combustion point, the better. For the record I do burn wood to supplement my propane fired condensing boiler. My wood stove is a Vermont Castings Defiant model which is a free standing space heater. My experience with this particular brand of wood stove is that if the wood is not aged two years under cover, it is not worth the trouble to even fire up the stove. As Piffin has pointed out there are a number of deducts in the cost vs. benefit firewood equation. Stay warm and dry-Merry Christmas to you all. Those of you with fire places might want to back on fuel load on the evening of the 24th. Roger
There are also a number of variables in the drying/curing process.
what time of year and month harvested, how stored, what climate, what species, whether split immediately....Two years is a good goal, but can be fine after nine months, depending.../.
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Piffin, Out of curiosity have you ever girdled a tree in the spring after leaf out and let it die standing .
I have been told by some old timers here that that was the quickest way to dry the wood. Argument is that the tree uses up all it's water trying to sustain the already leafed out growth. I have never done it just wondering if you had ever heard of or done it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I have read of indians doing that. standing dead wood will dry whereas once it lays on the ground it rots much more quickly. When I lived in CO, you could get Forest service permits to harvest as much beetle-killed standing dead as you needed for personal use.Here, I get all the blow downs I need or firewood from clearing lots and building roads, so no, I have never girdled a tree
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
re: girdling trees - I've never done it for the purpose of firewood - but I do it to black walnut that I harvest for lumber - takes two years to die, but almost all the sapwood will turn to heartwood in that time - "there's enough for everyone"
David Doud,,
Is it true heartwood another words decay resistant and insect resistant or like steamed earlywood which causes the heartwood to lose it's vibrancy as a cost and still isn't decay resistant nor insect resistant?
uh....
ya - something like that - I do prefer the appearance of air dried walnut over kiln dried - seems like the heat/steam spoils the depth of color - "there's enough for everyone"
David,
I've noticed the vibrancy, the varity, the depth of color disappears when you steam walnut.
Yes, you can google Hs Tarm and get their info on the efficient wood boilers and heat storage systems. They don't give them away and right now the ratio between the dollar and the euro is not in our favor either. You gotta take another look at american elm. If I see one standing with no bark on it I know it's dry and ready to burn that same day. Yes, if I had to split it by hand I would only take that which is smaller than 10" but a 20 ton splitter does the job on the big ones. I can only imagine that those cat drivers you mentioned pushed too much dirt along with the logs and possibly some green stuff too.I have some woodland in Bayfield Cty near lake superior. Pretty close to you there, huh? My buddy up there has a wife that insists he brings only elm firewood home. To be fair he is the type that doesn't go out to get wood untill the fire in the stove is out. You could be pleasantly surprised if you ran into some standing barkless elm. Mesic
mesic.
The American elm which dominated our forests is what's called a grey elm or slippery elm.. something a lot differant from Red elm. In my humble opinion it is a weed, a noxtious weed. not worthy of any wood work or even being burned.
I've heard enough praise about the red elm which we have relatively few of That I can accept your support of it and will take your word for it..
My experiance with Elm is that left to dry properly there is a three day period where it might burn if enough additional supporting wood is added to the fire. Once that three day period expires the wood starts getting punky and nothing short of a blast furnace is capable of burning it.. ;-)
That attitude is held by our electric company. During the peak of the Dutch elm disease problem so much waste elm was generated that the city of Minneapolis and St. Paul asked them to dispose of the trees in their coal plants.. Big massive chippers where purchased and countless loads of trees were trucked in. The idea was they would add elm chips to the coal and gain additional energy from burning wood .
I will give them credit. They gave it a great effort. In the end the power company paid to have the logs buried rather than continue to deal with the issues of trying to burn elm trees..
As for the dozer driver pushing too much dirt, well anytime you pile up a bunch of trees to burn there is dirt in the pile however with enough diesel oil you can get green wet logs to burn completely,, as long as they aren't elm.. after the fire burned down you'd go in and push the elm logs into a hole in the ground that you dug . It used to be the standard way to clear land.
I freely admit to having a real dislike of elm. It warps and curls and bends like a hootchie cootchie dancer. It's near impossible to plane cleanly and cutting it always leaves a fuzzy appearance. If sanded you might be able to smooth it enough to do something with it, but at great risk.
You see slivers have been known to attack innocent wood workers who just happen to walk by. Not nice little slivers that are easily removed. Oh no! these are the viscous kind which feel like someone jambed a 2x4 under your skin but try as you might there is no earthly way to remove said sliver..
The normal course of events is day one painfull sliver,, day 2 massive infection with gallons of puss oozing from the sore, day three is amputation with the doctor sadly shaking his head as he leaves the operating room..
I tell you elm is vicous! ;-) No wonder it is called the juvinile delequent of wood.. in addition to warping twisting and cupping like the earlier hootchie cootchie dancer it will decay on a damp day..
About the only good thing I can say has to do with old wooden warships like the USS constitution (old Iron sides). Not that merchant friget replica they have in the Boston(?) habor, but the real one.. The inner planks on it were elm which because of the interlocking grain in Elm allowed cannon balls to bounce harmlessly off it's side..
I know it no longer exists because Elm exposed to that much water would turn to powder in about three weeks.
Hopefully you'll get a kick out of my diatribe agianst elm..
It had one other very useful purpose back in the old days.
Wagon wheel hubs.
Due to the interlocking grain. The axel bore combined with the spoke mortices would have weakend any other wood. Elm was prized for that use. I believe it folowed up to the gristmill, but am not as certain.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sucess is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Years ago when they were taking down the London Bridge, they found it sat on Elm pilings. They had been in there for several hundred years and were still in good shape.
I heard a number of years ago that when they were digging to put in a new bank branch in the next time over, they dug up a large American elm log which had been buried about 50 years earlier.
Milled it up and used it for a nice table in the bank.
Don
I heard a number of years ago that when they were digging to put in a new bank branch in the next time over, they dug up a large American elm log which had been buried about 50 years earlier.
There was a dirty jobs episode where they were harvesting old logs out of a lake bottom. They'd been down there 100 years or better, but was still good wood.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
" I've noticed the vibrancy, the varity, the depth of color disappears when you steam walnut."agreed - "there's enough for everyone"
I got a 'face 1/2 cord' from another dude Saturday. It is dry enough to burn, so that takes care of that for now.
But among the mix was a lot of red oak..which I tend to think is a waste. Red oak's real forte is as lumber not firewood. Hate to just burn it, but oh well. And some kind of maple with those crazy lines in it...what the heck is that called? But I know woodworkers like that wood too.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Spalted Maple is what you have. Spalting is micro-organisms that preceed full blown rot or mold.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Whew! Had me worried there for a second. Thought maybe he was talking about curly maple.
be larry and moe
Or worser yet.
Spalted Curley Maple
Be grey pubesSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I was going to spell curly curely but changed my mind.
Just checked Spell Check and I won that round.
be well rounded but not too fat
But I spelt curlEy whereass you spelt it curEly..
Be cured of curlsSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
snorK*
be I'm so dizzy my head is whirlin'like a whirlpool it never ends...
Whatever happened to Tommy Roe ? Did he ride off with that guy that did "Shiela"?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I think he roed his boat ashore.
isn't roe fish eggs????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Seems one and the same that rowed Shiela..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_RoeSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I don't want to get in a row with you over this.
be Imerc's fish eggs or a small deer with forked antlers
Edited 12/24/2007 6:51 pm ET by rez
Then Caviar it is then! 20 paces.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Ever see venison tied to a front fender of a corvair?
No, it was still a deer at that point. It ain't venison while still wearing skin.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Ever see the one with 2 deer up in a tree above the hunter?
Deer 1 says " heheheeh, they NEVER look up here"Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I remember seeing on with two grinning deer driving a truck with a hunter tied on the front fender.
I remember seeing on with two grinning deer driving a truck with a hunter tied on the front fender.
..jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
That one is from last week. Today's:
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
He liked using bears too...
Browse B.Kliban's stuff. He's a hoot too along the same lines.
Author of "Never Eat anything Bigger Than Your Head"Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Not spalted curley tiger eyed maple?!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've fiddled with it back in the day..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
you like red oak for lumber better than I do then - <g>hard and splintery to work - but that's OK - lay a faggot of red oak in the back of the stove, burn your fire in front of it for your overnight burn, there will be coals aplenty to fire up in the morning - good firewood, but slow drying - sphere already said the magic 'spalted maple' - it is decay - the wood is partially oxidized already, so heat value is lessened - no big deal unless it's really punky - buying wood to burn immediately is bad business, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do - good luck, hope you find a wood cutter with whom you can establish a long term relationship - "there's enough for everyone"
you like red oak for lumber better than I do then - <g>
hard and splintery to work - but that's OK -
lay a faggot of red oak in the back of the stove, burn your fire in front of it for your overnight burn, there will be coals aplenty to fire up in the morning -
For a better burning firewood or for an outdoor lumber use, I'd rather have white oak. And there are some good burning 'other' oaks. Those that I'm pretty sure are oak, but I don't know what kind (I can usually identify red and some types of white, but that's it).
Hickory is one of my favorites too. Better burn than red oak, but I'm not sure I'd say it burns better than white oak. But hickory gives a nice burn time, good coals, and a great smokey flavor (when used in grill or smoker). Good firewood guy from last winter had given me a load with lots of hickory in it. I'd saved a pile of it to give to "cousin" Dave for when he's got the big smoker going.
I would imagine you've burned a fair bit of apple firewood. Is it as good as advertised?
good luck, hope you find a wood cutter with whom you can establish a long term relationship -
As I've mentioned already, this current annoyance was all my own making. If back in August, I had called the guy from last winter, I could have stocked up on enough for the whole winter.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
red/white, doesn't make much difference to me - well seasoned stashes of either are a joy to pull out of the shed in january - apple burns decently - leaves lots of ash - hard to work up and stack - gnarly trees, brushy, knotty, crooked - lots of work compared to forest trees - if I get in trouble, i.e. in danger of running out of dry wood, I go for some ash - I can burn it in the mix immediately, not to mention fast to work up and easy to split (no hydraulic splitter here...)it's easy to get a hot fire out of ash - oak and hickory gotta be good a dry to burn hot, even tho sticks of the same size may contain more BTUs than ash - the standing dead elm previously mentioned is also a good stop-gap solution - wish I could remember the folk saying about burning elm - it's negative - something about witches and cold, but not tits...."there's enough for everyone"
sorry that happened to ya..
doesn't it just make ya want to hide all that wood where the sun doesn't shine if the dude that sold it to ya ever stops in...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
you must live in Ct because I've got the same wood guy. he ranted about how his wood was stored in his barn for over a year. only it weighs as much as a block of ice. then his 18" max turned out to be up to 23"
I've relied exclusively on wood heat for eighteen years now and have been buying it for fifteen. Over those years I've learned a few lessons.
Firewood cutters are for the most part a unique and entertaining group of social misfits who rely on measuring instruments unique to the firewood business and operate on a different system of time than the rest of us. A reliable guy with a decent measure of reasonably dry wood is as hard to find as an honest politician and requires fair and honest consideration and prompt payment in cash. That approach means the same guy has been supplying me for about six years now; always calls in the spring to see what I need and gives me priority. I never buck the price but always get a good measure of good wood cut right.
Most important lesson was to buy next winter's firewood this spring and get it split and stacked over the early summer. Last year's delivery will get burned this winter and I've already got next years drying. I'm never under pressure to get wood in so never have to settle for whatever shows up. The wood doesn't come off the truck until I've seen it but I'll help unload a good load. I always offer a beer after delivery, but we always drink it at the woodpile now. Last guy I let into the house walked out on my back porch and had a piss down onto my patio furniture after he drank it.
hah, hah, hah.....
<<<a unique and entertaining group of social misfits >>>>
ayupMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Firewood cutters are for the most part a unique and entertaining group of social misfits who rely on measuring instruments unique to the firewood business and operate on a different system of time than the rest of us. A reliable guy with a decent measure of reasonably dry wood is as hard to find as an honest politician
That comment was great. I just copy-pasted it into an email to a friend.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
That sux. Lessee if it averaged at 24" long by 3'x7' you still only got 42 Cuft or a 1/3 cord.
what ya pay for that? Round here in the paper the average "piled on a full size PU" (maybe heavy half cord or so) is 65.00 delivered. seasoned? I dunno, I don't buy it that way or from any of them. I think at least one guy is getting it from the same guy I get mine from, just tacking on about 20 bucks a load.
I can load the 350 with a cord now I have the rack on, and my guy will let me have it ( I load) for about 70.00 at most, but I sometimes tip him heavy, he's a little "special", so I help him out.
I rebuilt a fence section for my tree guy, he dropped a limb and crashed it, I had 4 hours racked up and a few nails and screws..he brought me a double load ( 1 ton stake body and a trailer load) in return..but it is TOO dry..freaking gets the stove glowing right quick..so I mix in some other stuff.
We're blessed with good wood..good thing, thats all I have for heat, 'cept a pair of oil filled radiators.
Good luck getting the guy educated, stay on him till your happy.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Stay on him till he makes it right. If you want to heat with wood you have to do what others have said and buy it a year ahead.
We had one firewood guy that sold the untreated cut offs from railroad ties. The best stove wood ever.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 12/20/2007 5:59 am ET by stevent1
Reminds me of when I was about 17 and working at a saw mill..I had the brainstorm to get a full load of RR Ties ( before the dip tank) for firewood..I mean all oak, one solid block of wood, zero waste, what could go wrong?
I had a F250 camper special truck and we loaded with the fork lift..it was only 4 miles home. I diligently cut every rail into a perfect size for my Franklin Stove I had recently installed in my trailer, and stacked it in the yard pretty much as it had been loaded.
While it seasoned, ( heheheheeh) I burnt other tailings and scrap from the mill.
Finally by Feb I figgured it was time to dig into my gold mine!
Wrong. It had all black molded and FROZE into one big , completely solid, block of wood. Wailing away with a sledge and curing a blue streak, dislodged a few hunks..but frozen in Pa winter, means frozen till May.
I've learned a litle since then..LOL
edit: I think you meant that post to John, right?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Edited 12/20/2007 8:27 am ET by Sphere
I've learned a litle since then..LOL
Speaking of which... Got a call last week from a friend. Heat pump died, no $5k for replacement estimate. Yeah, elec resistance worked, but his wife wouldn't let him turn up the thermostat. Real chilly for showering.
Can't smell him from my house... but I'd been suggesting since he came out to cut last year that he might stockpile a year in advance like I do. So this winter rolls around, zero wood, plus money problems.
He shows up with a dull saw and his pickup. OK, I can file. First Stihl I've seen without dogs... I'll use mine, thanks. But he needs forest wood that'll burn tonight. Fortunately for him I'd just cut a new driveway up the mountain. The oak from 30 yrs ago logging doesn't have sapwood anymore but it's ready to hit the stove. Then there's the occasional long-dead, but sound, black locust and oak, usually horizontal.
He took a full load of ~ 24" d oak, blowdown a few yrs ago (no sapwood left). I measured 20-25% mc. Came back with his pickup bed 2" lower one side than the other. I looked, musta been the frame bent. Hope he made it home with the second load we cut.
Learn something from it? I doubt it. My truck holds 1.5 cords with ease, dumps for fast delivery. If he'd come out and help me I'd be happy to drop off a load, same deal I have with another friend. For some, it takes discomfort to motivate. The other guy's about finished for winter '08/09, 4.5 cords per.
I keep tellin' him he needs a better house. This is Va, for pete's sake. Gonna go see his brand-new Airstream he picked up yesterday. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
That was for John. It was early.
I had a 79 F-350 Camper Special Super Cab 4X4 and could haul a cord with the sides on. Straight front axel. Load range E tires. Best truck I ever owned.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Stay on him till he makes it right. If you want to heat with wood you have to do what others have said and buy it a year ahead.
Yeah, this is really my fault. I had about 3/4 cord of wood to start the season, but I shouldn't have expected the good firewood guy to have a supply once we started having cold snaps. He spoiled me last winter by still having wood right through winter. If I hadn't had my head up my hind end, I could have called him back in August and gotten all the wood I wanted.
It looks like we had a mini-rush on firewood a couple weeks back when a town about 20 mins away had an ice storm and 10k people were without power for 1-5 days. A couple guys I called who were out of firewood mentioned that they thought they had enough stocked up to supply all winter long, but got swamped with deliveries to Jacksonville (ice storm town).
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
what ya pay for that? Round here in the paper the average "piled on a full size PU" (maybe heavy half cord or so) is 65.00 delivered.
A "half cord" (face cord) typically runs from 70-80. That is split, delivered, and stacked, although some don't deliver very far.
Sometime they sell you a pickup load, but I hate to buy it that way. A pickup load could be anywhere from 1/5 cord to a full cord depending on the size of the bed and how they've got it arranged.
I can load the 350 with a cord now I have the rack on, and my guy will let me have it ( I load) for about 70.00 at most, but I sometimes tip him heavy, he's a little "special", so I help him out.
That sounds like a great price if you've got teh wheels to get it home.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
I had a "cord" delivered two days ago. I looked at his trailer full of bright red oak, jumbled not stacked, asked him did he cut this last week, no he says, it's a year old. Yeah right.
Turns out it'll stack 4 x 8 x almost 36" high, not a cord, and not quite dry. I think I'll go back to cutting up oak pallets and mixing it to burn.
These firewood guys are shysters.
Expert since 10 am.
jackplane,
I heated my house one winter with nothing but broken pallets.. Now I buy slab wood.. read my post to John for details..
not everyone lives near a mill or in the country, frenchy.
your optimism about wood is tempered by my reality in a city.Expert since 10 am.
Jackplane,
I think you'd be surprised (and of course we need to talk about definitions here.. for example what do you consider close)?
I have to drive a little over an hour to get to mine, but then I drive past dozens because of lower prices and better wood.
I have no concept of the DC area But looking at topographical maps you are surrounded by a lot of trees..
I'm sure there are more than a few woodmizers right in the DC area. go to http://www.woodmizer.com and ask. Part of the service they offer is they help owners contact buyers like you..
Then I'd find out who makes pallets in the DC area.. pallet makers buy wood at the least cost and if you understand the standards required of a pallet in order to meet GMA standards. You'll understand they build with some pretty good wood.
heated my house one winter with nothing but broken pallets
About 1/2 our wood for close to 10 years was pallets cut in half which would fit.
Did I also mention the over 2 cubic yard pile of rusty nails in the back yard??
I thought leaving the nails in there was a bad thing...
A man, convinced against his will...
Is of his own opinion, still.
~Anne McCaffrey
Luka,
the wood burns away and the nails drop into the ashes.. a magnet seperates the nails and if you get enough bring them in to a scarp yard they are worth more as loose nails than straight scrap. (better grade of steel and already cleaned)
but the nails having been burned derates the value...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
And if I'm burning wood with nails in it, I'm not going to be able to use the ash on the driveway to melt snow.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
use a magnet to sort out the nails...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
John sure!
just use a good sized magnet to pull all the nails out!
IMERC
Not according to my scrap dealer. If I come with a truck load of scap steel I get one price if it's a truck load of nails it's another price..
maybe it's because it's cleaned or unpainted or whatever..
how do you clean a nail that's been thru the wood stove....
that's gotta be labor intensive....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
IMERC
if all that's on it is wood ash the scrap yards don't seem to think it matters.
At least my guy gives me more for it ( (Note it's been a while since I've turned in any scrap nails, I don't use them building this house.. (except for trim and those are all stainless steel which go into their own bin)
To be sure a lot of places count cast iron, scrap steel, clean, or otherwise as all the same price. They won't even seperate catalitic converters out and they can be worth over $100 ea.
In most states weight and meansures standards have defined the cord as mentioned above, 128 cubit foot.And to see wood that does not not measure out to a cord (or whatever fraction that you buy) is illegal and they are subject to fines..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You are more ambitious than I am, I haul the old cars in for scrap (about $40 a ton here last summer), but never even considered separating the nails out of the ashes.
Next door neighbor is a retired landscape contractor. Told me the ashes plus the iron in the nails is the absolute best feritlizer for fir trees, so spread a few yards of the naily ash there, the 2 yard pile is in the process of fast corrosion in hte rain with the ash.
junkhound,
$40 a ton? it's been well over $200 a ton here.. and if you are smart you can scrap a car for $1000. go in and cut the wire looms off even wrapped in plastic that's a couple hundred dollars or more. Yank out the aluminum radiator and aluminum wheels for another $160. the catalitic converter is worth a cool $90 for a small American car and up to $450 for the right import (MB) The Big Volvo can net you $380.. The battery is worth $15. dead
If you remove the interior the scrap price goes up by $50 a ton.. (and they'll take it off your hands for free)
over $200 a ton
Interesting to look at steel scrap prices across the US. Typiucally the west coast is 25-30% of what east coast is, never have figured out the economics 100%, except that nearly all west coast scrap goes to china. The $40 a ton is stripped interior.
Only 5 years ago, many places wanted you to PAY to dump off a car body.
Aluminum (old window and door extrusions) scrap here brings about 80 cents a pound.
Had a discussion with a friend a week or so ago about my cheapie metal firewood rack. I haven't really cared for it because it is undersized. The storage on it is about 3'x6'10". That makes NO sense to me when the standard volume of firewood is 4x8. Problem #2 is that you have to put boards, bricks, or something under the legs, or those pipe legs sink right into the yard. In my case I've got it sitting on the concrete.
But anyway, we were thinking of ways to improve on that rack. I'd probably make the storage area on it 4.5-5'x8' (so it would hold just over 1/2 cord). Give it better cross support. And the last item would be wheels....
We didn't come up with a design, but seems like you ought to be able to make the dang thing mobile. My first thought was push mower wheels; two fixed ones in the middle and then a pivoting pair on either end. But I wasn't sure how well this would really travel over a lawn while loaded with firewood (no chance in snow). Next thought was bike wheels, but couldn't think how to design it so that they weren't in the darn way. If your Dad was still around, I'd put him on the project. ;)jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
I would think that in your climate, they would have rusted down to nice iron oxide compost by now....;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Junkhound.
I did much the same thing, saved the nails and turned them in for scrap.
when I hauled the junker onto the scales and it weighed over 6000 pounds he told me to open the trunk. I not only opened the trunk I opened the back seat. He got a great big smile on his face and when I went into the office for my check it was a lot more than 6000 pounds worth of scrap cars normally gets me.. because it's a cleaner better grade of steel.
I had a "cord" delivered two days ago. I looked at his trailer full of bright red oak, jumbled not stacked, asked him did he cut this last week, no he says, it's a year old. Yeah right.
I hate buying by pickup loads. All they've got to do is jumble it up to screw ya. Meanwhile my good firewood guy brings his over neatly stacked in the back of his white GMC 1500 pickup and it doesn't even take up half the bed (face 1/2 cord). All depends on how they put it in there.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
I sent you a couple of phone numbers for firewood guys in the southern MD area via email.++++++++++++++++++
"Where will our children find their enjoyment when everything gets itself done by steam? Frederick Law Olmsted, 1850s?"
thanks...Expert since 10 am.
John,
You need to find local sawmills.. not the big ones, the small ones.. Call http://www.woodmiser.com and ask them for a list of their customers.. contact them and ask what they get for slab wood. Around here it's $35.00 a pickup truck load
That's the first cut off the round part of a tree. towards the top it's relatively thin great for kindling but down at the bottom where the butt flares out it's nice sized chunks I like to burn Cherry and Oak. Cherry for the pleasant smell (and sometimes green embers when down to coals) when burning and oak because I can toss a piece or two in the fire and it's still burning in the morning..
IF you really want to become a firewood expert find out who makes pallets in your area. (every metropolation area has pallet mills (note the plural) ask them where they buy wood from
The reason is some of the medium sized mills in order to keep the blade sharp as long as possible chip off the bark.
Debarked slab wood is so wonderful to burn!
a lot less smoke, more heat! and almost no ash! I burned 10 cords of debarked oak and cherry one winter and never needed to remove ash all winter!
John,
Your photo of the water foaming out of the burning wood reminded me of how quickly creosote forms in the chimney under those conditions.
Regarding sources of firewood; in my area of NY State it's common to buy a truckload of logs directly from the loggers. They off-load it on your property. The logs are from state forests, standing dead hardwood trees specifically marked for firewood. A normal truckload is guaranteed to produce 5-6 full cords.
So there it is, whenever you can get to it. Cutting short lengths, like what you need, makes it easy to split by hand with a maul.
Edited 12/20/2007 5:25 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
A normal truckload is guaranteed to produce 5-6 full cords.
So there it is, whenever you can get to it. Cutting short lengths, like what you need, makes it easy to split by hand with a maul.
If I had that much to split, I think I'd rent a splitter and have a friend or two over on a Saturday during mild weather.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
If I had that much to split, I think I'd rent a splitter and have a friend or two over on a Saturday during mild weather.
That's the way most people do it but short stuff is easy to cut and split on the ground. Make all the first cuts about two thirds through, then roll the log over and finish each one. Next, turn all the pieces on end in a row. Then start at one end of the row and split each one with one stroke, moving along with a good rythym. BTW, it's easier to split on firm ground, like a packed dirt driveway.
If you have room next to your driveway for logs, you can cut and split any time you feel like it. Makes very good exercise in the winter too.
BTW, it's easier to split on firm ground, like a packed dirt driveway.
kinda ruff on the axe or maul isn't it????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
BTW, it's easier to split on firm ground, like a packed dirt driveway.
kinda ruff on the axe or maul isn't it????
I don't use an axe for splitting, not effective enough. A maul looses it's speed at impact because it's more of a wedge on a long handle than a sharp cutting edge. So the maul may end up a half inch into the dirt but that doesn't effect it's ability to split wood at all.
Even if it's not-so-sharp edge gets dinged by a small stone, that's not enough to effect it's ability. I'm not saying that I'd split wood on a gravel driveway, I'd just use some plywood/OSB rips to set up the cut pieces on for splitting.
Cutting short lengths, like what you need, makes it easy to split by hand with a maul. You've never tried to split bout half dry hickry... ka-boing,<g> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
add Elm to the "it's a chore" list...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
and year old rounds of oak.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You're right about splittin' elm. What takes the cake in splitting is basswood. It simply swallows the maul without budgeing. Of course nobody would want basswood anyway because when it is dry it's about the weight of cardboard and burns like it too. Luckily I make my 3 1/2 cords a year with the help of a 6 wheel polaris ATV. Then to the splitter and directly to the stack which is one row 45' long and stacked 7' high. At 18" lengths that's my 3 1/2 cords. I've learned that every time you handle it, it is work. Also that some species dry faster than others. An example is a green maple cut in the spring if split and stacked soon will be dry for use that fall. Oak needs 2 years and if you're splitting in pretty big chunks it'll show moisture in the middle even then. Ash is about like maple for drying.American elm burns very good and some thinks it's the best. I've saved planer chips from red elm and you cannot light them with a match. They start burning and then go out.In the U.S. Forest Products Labratory 1974 Wood Handbook: Wood as an engineering material in the section on kiln drying you find that 1" thick oak takes 30 days at 180 degrees while maple takes 7 days to kiln dry. I am lucky enough to have a multi-fuel hot water furnace in my basement. 1979 model. It was 17 years old when I got here and I've connected the domestic hot water to it also. Wood is really dirty stuff up in the living room, [I bet nobody will argue that point.] so I built a room around the furnace and sealed it and allow fresh air to come in there from outside. HS Tarm is it's name and it's made in Denmark. I love it and my job is to keep the oil burner from kicking in. I manage to make 500 gallons last 3 years. They make a wood boiler that is 80 to 85 % efficient now so I wish I had that one. Mesic
instead of letting the big project construction materials hit the dumpster...
I use what I can and turn the rest into fire wood...
no splitting required...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
There is an old Poem witha stanza that reads:
"Ash be wet or Ash be dry, a King shall warm his slippers by"
Very true, even wet ash burns well, and doesn't contain near as much resin as to create creosote. It also has the side benefit of not leaving behind much ash. Absolutly one of my favorite firewoods.
Worst I ever tried to split was semi punky Sycamore, I mean it was just about too far gone even for firewood..it ate handle after handle, stuck wedges...it was hell.
Luckily, I rarely have to fluff up anything anymore, I'll split some of the really easy stuff for easy burn on top of the kindling ( which is almost all shop scraps or site carry home debris) but the guy with the log splitter does pretty well for my stove size.
I enjoy busting up some wood in early fall, just to get psyched up for the coming winter, but I quickly recall the years past, when scavenging the forest for standing dead dogwood in snow 2' deep. Cutting at snow level and then in spring meltdown seeing all the stubs 2' or so up..LOL Those were some ruff years.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Sucess is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
One of my brothers always liked to burn Ash when he was burning wood.
I'm a big fan of Red Elm, around here they get up to 12 inches in diameter then they die from Dutch Elm Disease. The bark starts to fall off in about a year, without bark they are pretty weather resistant. The trees I cut have mostly been dead for two or more years, the heart wood gets darker as they age.
I split by hand and it's easy most of the time. I tried some American or White Elm, It's a real PITA.
I like the way Red Elm seasons its self in the woods.
I've never cut a green one down to season it so I don't know how that would turn out.
I don't know where you are, but red elm was one of the best back when I lived in Iowa 30 years ago. Just like you said, they'd stand for years with no bark and rarely lose even small branches. Split easily and burned well.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Seems that nobody has mentioned the outdoor temperature when discussing wood splitting. As "suggested" by an old Norwegian when I was young: Cut the wood into rounds in the fall. Split the green wood on the coldest mornings. Let it set until fall. Ready to burn.When the ground is cold and hard and green wood is frozen, the wood really snaps apart when you smack it with a maul.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
mesic,
Basswood is desired by campgrounds as a firewood. it's pretty and light and looks good stacked up.. plus a fire made of basswood burns really quickly and the campgound owners can sell more that way. yet the fire goes out quickly and everbody turns in when the fires out.
Your multifuel furnace sounds great! Do you have a link to it? I can buy slab wood really cheap ( $35.00 a tailgate dragging truck load) around here. Slab wood is the first cut off trees.. at the top it's slim and makes great kindling but at the bottom where the tree flairs out the chunks are really serious sized..
I do disagree with you about elm.. it's a lousy firewood, nearly impossible to split (even with a hydraulic log splitter) and instead of giving off heat, I suspect it sucs heat.. ;-)
When dutch elm was coming thru here and we had acres of elm trees to burn they would bull doze them into giant piles and pour desiel oil on them (back when it was about 35 cents a gallon) they would use 20 or 30 gallons on a pile of elm trees mostly dry as a result of dying from dutch elm disease.
a few hours later the oil had burned off and the fire went out.. so they take the bull dozer and roll the trees around again and toss another 20 or 30 gallons on and relight it..
If they were lucky the bark will have burned enough so the forestry guy would say that the bettles was destroyed,, other wise it was turn them again and dump more oil on them..
Elm will rot quickly but doesn't burn worth squat..
No hickory or elm in my area. Plenty of oak though, which is my favorite to burn. I keep an old twelve pound sledge nearby to drive the maul through any gnarly oak when it needs it.
Other than oak, there's cherry, ash, and maple...all pretty easy to split.
The problem with the term "seasoned" is that a tree cut two years ago, but split yesterday, will not be very dry and that is how many dealers operate, by splitting it as they sell it. I've got some eight inch thick oak in my woodpile that was cut down three years ago and it is still wet. Once split, it needs a year to dry out enough to burn.
The guy still needs a log upside the head, just on general principal, for selling a short load.
The problem with the term "seasoned" is that a tree cut two years ago, but split yesterday, will not be very dry and that is how many dealers operate, by splitting it as they sell it.
I think that describes this guy. I don't think he lied about the tree getting downed 2 years ago, but if you look at the pic of the wood pile, you can tell its freshly split. Bright edges and no weathering or discoloring.
I was suspicious when I walked up to the pile. You can't tell by that pic, but it was dark and I could smell the wood 10 feet away. To me that means it is wet and is drying out. Well seasoned wood has a smell, but you've got to stick your nose in it to smell it.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Toward the end of last heating season we bought a 'cord' from a guy in the paper... A lot of guys get permits from the forest service or weyerhauser to cut 'maple' on their land. It's soft, big-leaf maple, but ok firewood.
Guy brought me his 'cord' in a pickup. I said, "How do you get a cord out of a loose pile in the back of a pickup?" "I don't think that's a cord.."
"Oh trust me, it's a cord..." If it isn't call me.
I stacked it, measured it at about 1/2 a cord and called him. And called him.. And called him...
I got many many stories about his injuries, family deaths, and many "This weekend! (s) "
Finally he sent some lacky by who had gone up and cut more. He dropped it off and I was happy until he stopped wayyy short of the rest of the PU bed saying the rest was for him!
I wouldn't let him leave until I got the rest.
Last summer I responded to a 'free firewood u cut' ad in thepaper and ended up milling 400 bd ft of white oak, and 3 cords of firewood from the old tree that came down, and I have an open invitation to come back out and get more anytime. Lucky, but it's a lot of work.
Last summer I responded to a 'free firewood u cut' ad in thepaper and ended up milling 400 bd ft of white oak, and 3 cords of firewood from the old tree that came down, and I have an open invitation to come back out and get more anytime. Lucky, but it's a lot of work.
You know, that's really the best way to do it. Get a friend or two and pick a good Saturday and go out and get 'er done. Might be cheaper than going to a ballgame :)
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Edited 12/21/2007 12:13 am by JohnT8
Yeah, it's the "He who cuts his own wood is twice warmed" thing.
There's just about nothing more manly than cutting splitting and stacking your own firewood, and I personally believe any 'man' ought to own a chainsaw as a matter of course.
Second trip out, to deal with the two larger logs I did bring a friend and we dragged things around with chains and my truck in 4x4 low, rolled big rounds into the trailer... all good fun.
I think actually it was about 3 days work to get all the wood I was going to burn back to the house, rent the splitter to split it all up and then stack it in the backyard.
Oregon's got the perfect climate for firewood drying. Doesn't rain all summer so 4 mos in the direct sun--80's and 90's all summer and the stuff is bone dry. In Oct the rain returns so I move the stacks under the 'wood roof' closer to the house and tarp the rest.
Got a hot, glowing oak fire in the stove right now. My daughter knows the best place in the house!
Cheers,
Pat
I just got my load of seasoned hickory for my smoker. When I get it burning, I can hear the steam sizzling--not great for cooking with. These stories are right on the money about the average firewood guy--could drive you crazy trying to figure out what is really going on. My half-cord turned out to be a quarter cord. I will admit that I do not understand how someone could cut, split and deliver a cord of wood for the $175 they get around here--except that the cord is really a half cord or less. I can not stand the unpredictability of the measure.
A cord is a measure just like a pound or board foot. Why must so many misrepresent what they are giving you for your money.
I will go ahead and get a new pile of wood so it can be truly seasoned for next year, in the mean time, I am using not dry enough wood. Bummer
For real fun for those of you who have bought wood lately try this out
They will not know how you know--but you will know.....
http://www.firewoodcenter.com/testcord.shtml
a ot of people honestly dont know what a cord is. and cannot figue it out. so its "you want it or not" here they sell by nissan pickup bed loose for $65. thats a little under 1/2 cord. Ok alot under. but i only burn one stick per year
I found this info on Google--a little off to me.What is a cord?
And how to avoid paying too much for one
Firewood quantities are sometimes difficult to estimate. The official measurement of firewood is a “cord”. To help you make an accurate estimate, here is how some common units of firewood measurement compare to the full cord. A full cord is a large amount of wood. It measures 4 feet high by 4 feet wide by eight feet long (4' x 4' x 8') and has a volume of 128 cubic feet.
A face cord or rick of wood is four feet high by eight feet long and is as wide as the individual firewood pieces, but averages 16 inches wide. A 16-inch wide face cord is equal to one-third of a full cord.
Face cord (16") x times 3 three = equals One full cord
(I'm still thinking about this)
Two full-size pick-up truck loads (8 foot box) equals one full cord, whether the wood is stacked carefully so it is about level with the truck box sides, or is thrown into the truck box with the top of the pile about as high as the cab.
(My truck has an 8 foot bed, is easily 4 feet between wheelwells, has toolboxs on each side that are higher than the cab) That's 4X4X8 in my book and therefore one load of stacked wood equals a cord. Full-size pick-up truck (8') x times 2 two = equals One full cord
(NO WAY-READ PARAGRAPH ABOVE--2 CORDS)
Four compact pick-up truck loads (6 foot box) equals one full cord of wood, whether the wood is stacked carefully so it is about level with the truck box sides, or is thrown into the truck box with the top of the pile about as high as the cab.Compact pick-up truck (6') x times 4 four = equals One full cord
A 'full' cord measures 4 ft. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. and is the official, standard firewood measure. But four foot pieces are never used for home heating, and dealers rarely sell four foot pieces. So firewood is not offered for sale in the form of its official unit measurement. This is why buying firewood can be confusing. (Not to mention the way you determine what a cord is) Other terms, such as face cord, stove cord or furnace cord are used to describe a stack of wood measuring 4 ft. high, 8 ft. long with a piece length shorter than 4 ft. The most common firewood piece length is 16 in., or one-third of a full cord, but other lengths are also available. These various terms and cord measures can be confusing when you are purchasing firewood. If you want to compare prices from a number of suppliers, take a tape measure to the dealers' yards and measure the average piece length. If the dealer does not price the wood in the standard full cord measure, convert the price to this basic unit. Here are some examples to illustrate the conversion. Forest Firewood sells what they call a 'face cord' for $75. You find that the pile is 4 feet high and 8 feet long, with an average piece length of 16 inches. Divide this length (16 in.) into the full cord length of 48 in. and multiply by the price. 48 ÷ 16 = 3 x $75 = $225. Therefore, Forest Firewood sells firewood for $225 per cord.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Sparky sells what he calls a 'stove cord' for $60. It is a pile measuring 4 feet by 8 feet with an average length of 12 inches. The calculation is: 48 ÷ 12 = 4 x $60 = $240. Therefore, Sparky sells firewood for $240 per cord.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Frontier Fuel sells a 4 foot x 8 foot x 18 inch 'face cord' for $85. The result is: 48 ÷ 18 = 2.67 x $85 = $227. Therefore, Frontier Fuel sells firewood for $227 per cord. If possible, avoid buying firewood in units that cannot be related to the standard full cord. Station wagon loads or other units are difficult to compare and can conceal a high price per cord measure.
Edited 12/20/2007 10:58 pm by Tyr
I've posted this PDF before, but it is my favorite firewood one. I copied it from the webpage a few years ago and they have since changed the page, but I like my old copy better. I find the table with the species stats is helpful, but wish they'd included more species. The last page talks about volume and is in agreement with what you posted.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Edited 12/21/2007 12:13 am by JohnT8
Thanks for the wood info. I decided to print it out. In the process of scanning the print product the source caught my eye--University of Lincoln (Nebraska). I should have known. I graduated from there after Vietnam. When I was replying to the previous post I Googled cord wood and did a quick cut and paste. Thanks Again, Tyr
The updated heating with wood page from UofN:
http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/live/g1554/build/g1554.pdf
I still like my old version better.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
tyr,
watch how it's stacked.. by rule it's supposed to be"dense stacked" a lot of guys will square stack it.. two pieces going one direction then two piece on the top going 90 degrees to that. thus you can have a stack that measures a cord but it's mostly air and less than 1/3 of a dense stacked cord..
definition of a cord found on the internet is good when wood is delivered and stacked upon delivery. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. 4X8X4...stacked upon delivery? Anyone else understand it differently????"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
How much did you pay for the "half cord"? And what do you feel is the going rate in your area?
Looking at all the offered firewood on craigslist, these guys are asking $230 to $260 a cord. I never bought any, I am using pallets and firewood that I find in the free section on craigslist. Most of the wood is Maple and Cedar.Martin
How much did you pay for the "half cord"? And what do you feel is the going rate in your area?
$70-85 will usually buy a 'face cord'. I think someone was estimating what I really got was about 1/4 cord, so the $75 I paid was high.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
When you say face chord, what does that mean? 4'x8'xwhatever length the wood is?
BTW - I used to sell firewood as a sideline - almost 20 years ago. I was very honest about it and prided myself on that. Eventually I figured out I was making about $5 an hour I decided it wasn't worth my time. Even back then minimum wage wasn't much less than that... Also, back then was when woodstoves were all the rage.... There were a number of newspaper articles about dishonest firewood dealers. I got really sick of people expecting me to try to cheat them. You would think they would simply look at what they were buying and realize that it was a fair deal. Many people weren't that smart - some things don't change...
In the end about the only thing I got out of it was a permanent tennis elbow from swinging the maul. Actually it's mostly "healed", I just have to know my limitations and take it easy with any kind of extended heavy hammering.
Your guy #1 definitely wasn't on the up and up. Sounds like maybe you got screwed out of $35 bucks or so. Hate to say it though, but BFD. I guess it's more the fact that you trusted the guy to drop it off when you weren't there and he took advantage of the situation.
When you say face chord, what does that mean? 4'x8'xwhatever length the wood is?
Yes. In this case the perfect size for my stove would be around 16" pieces, so 4'x8'x16" so more like 1/3 of a cord than 1/2.
In the end about the only thing I got out of it was a permanent tennis elbow from swinging the maul. Actually it's mostly "healed", I just have to know my limitations and take it easy with any kind of extended heavy hammering.
The older I get, the more I appreciate labor saving devices (ie ignore non-labor saving ones). So get the concrete premixed instead of bagged, use the power saw instead of the old manual ones, etc. So in the perfect world, I'd have enough wood stockpiled up in order to rent the splitter for a day (about $50) instead of swinging the axe. Although the current situation is even MORE labor saving in having other people do the labor. This current predicament was entirely my fault. I had a dude from last winter that provided a reasonable volume of very seasoned firewood for a reasonable price... I just waited too long to call him.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Man we're protected by law here by the "firewood by the truckload" by the guy whose truck has no working reverse and asks for a help pushing it out of the driveway. Or not.
http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/weights/curr/news/wght-nr-purchasefirewood-121304.stm
When we moved into NE PA, we used the "local yocal" for firewood, and he delivered a "cord" of oak. Then he said..."I just happened to have a few more cords we could have if we wanted them". And we were nubie enough to say sure!! (he sure knew a dummie when he saw one!!) I knew nothing about how they are SUPPOSED to deliver. Now I know, and now I do ALL my own...we go pick up wood ourselves, we cure it ourselves, we split it ourselves, and we burn ourselves..and we know exactly what we have. Not everyone can do that, but we force ourselves to do it. Otherwise, some of the worst ripoffs in the world go on with guys who give you "a cord". Sure.....
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Call him and order a full cord.
When he delivers, pay him for a half.
Call it even.
The last load I bought he loaded his truck and I drove it home. I had my daughter help me stack it. Ever since I've cut my own over the warm part of the year. There's no sense in buying it if I have trees falling over anyway that I have to clear.
Guy wasn't home ... and he never will be. He's got his money, he's done, as far as he's concerned.
Your primary recourse is to do business elsewhere. Maybe he doesn't care - for all you know, he's just a homeowner who had one tree to get rid of. Or he expects you to assume his competition is as bad as he is. Or that you'll need him more than he needs you. Or you'll forget, and answer the cheapest ad again next time. Or he's clever, and has his brother running ads for the same wood, with a different phone #.
The next step, should you decide to take it, is small claims court.
Next time ... BE THERE.
Your primary recourse is to do business elsewhere. Maybe he doesn't care
I was going to give him another call to really decide the issue, but then firewood guy#2 was too quick in delivering his load. Now I'm afraid to have crook-firewoodguy1 back for fear that he will try to load up my dry wood.
So it looks like I'm in agreement with you. My current best course is to take my business elsewhere and let anyone looking for firewood know not to go with crook-firewoodguy#1
for all you know, he's just a homeowner who had one tree to get rid of
Naw, he's got a supply. He'd supposedly delivered 4 loads the day he delivered mine. I think most of it is coming off his property though.
Next time ... BE THERE
AMEN!
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Edited 12/24/2007 1:53 pm by JohnT8
Even the Cub Scouts delivered short cords to me the one year when I bought from them.Seems the main rule of the business is that every supplier sells a 'load' of wood that may or may not have any relation to the standard measures for firewood even if they use standard terms to describe their load. The only way to evaluate it is to see it. These guys do really work hard for their money. I gave up cutting my own because it made far more sense for me to do my job for the 'skilled' money I make doing it and pay them their costs and 'unskilled' money to do it for me. It costs me quite a bit less in the end, takes a lot of pressure off (I can't do without heat) and means I can still enjoy it when I do have to dig the chainsaw out for some cutting around the property.
Edited 12/24/2007 4:42 pm by observer
Last time I went looking for wood southeast of DC I called on a newspaper ad:
Me: "Are you selling wood by the cord?"
Her: "Yes."
Me: "Is it a 4x4x8 foot cord, stacked?"
Her: "It's a modern cord."
Me: "What's that?"
Her: "Newer fireplaces are smaller so the cord is smaller."
Me: "A cord is a cord. A bushel of corn is the same whether you're buying it for a horse or a goat."
Her: Laughter
I moved on. She couldn't tell me how much wood I would get.
"Where will our children find their enjoyment when everything gets itself done by steam? Frederick Law Olmsted, 1850s?"
Her: "It's a modern cord."Me: "What's that?"Her: "Newer fireplaces are smaller so the cord is smaller."
don't ya love it...
only in polijive land..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I am surprised it wasn't being sold as a Viagra cord. Makes the wood last longer.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
offer to buy it as a sub-prime cordtakes longer to get paid according to how it's bundled.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yep, but they're still in business and selling to people who don't know better.++++++++++++++++++
"Where will our children find their enjoyment when everything gets itself done by steam? Frederick Law Olmsted, 1850s?"
I recently got taken by a wood hucker as well.(I usually go get it myself, but I've been busy and just recently took a rather painful drop off a ladder). Baught a cord of "seasoned" split and delivered.. Right size but it had more water in it than my well. Seasoned it in a puddle or something, I don't know.
A cord of wood stacked should measure 4x4x8
I haven't been here for a while, and since I just got firewood delivered found this thread interesting.
Just purchased 3 cords of wood from acquaintances who attend our church. They are honest and nice guys, but most of the complaints above are accurate. After delivering the first load we stacked it. They said it was two cords and I thought less. Tape measure showed it to be perhaps a bit over one and a half. I know they meant well, and didn’t argue. They said that they had measured a cord earlier in the season, they load their dump trailer with a front loader and had thought they had it figured as to how many loads equaled a cord. Around here (central PA) most don’t stack the wood after delivery, that’s up to the customer, but this being close after back surgery for me, and them being good Christians and friends, they offered to help me stack; so the short cords were revealed, much to their dismay I think. My only other complaint is that I asked for, and they agreed to, lengths 18-20 inches. What I got varied between 1 and two feet in length.
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I usually fell, cut split and stack my own wood, 6 cords a year, from my wood lot, just thinning trees. That way I get exactly what I want and i don't have to haul it far. My wood is marginal firewood: silver maple, white ash, American elm, some locust (honey and black) cherry and black walnut. The silver maple is marginal, but I have a lot of it. In quantity it keeps my home warm. The elm is fine, none of the complaints I read above. It burns well and is much better than the maple. I split using a home built hydraulic splitter with an 8 horse engine. It can go through almost anything.
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Newly felled and green elm is no match for the splitter. The elm logs complain, shred and come apart with little pause. There is no way you could do that with a maul or wedges. On the other hand, elm that has been dead for a month is still solid and splits much easier, with little or no shredding. If you are forced to hand split elm, let it age, also good is waiting until the temp drops in the teens, frozen elm can bust apart using a maul. With both the silver maple and elm, you can’t leave it sitting around too long, neither is very rot resistant, in my experience. I suppose any wood sunk in an oxygen free would avoid rot, but not silver maple, and elm aint much better. My white ash is my favorite, locust is heavy and sees to burn well, the cherry and walnut are also good.
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Silver maple has absolutely no rot resistance. We had a huge wind storm this early spring that blew down enough silver maple to supply me for more than a year. 3 months later, 80 percent of it was too spalted to bother with.
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I found out the hard way that my splitter is no match for willow. Found a willow log in a pile of pole wood I bought one year. One of the first pieces to go into the splitter buried itself in the wedge and stalled the engine. It took me an hour to get it out and I tossed the rest of that stuff out. Don't try to split willow. I hear it doesn't burn so well either.
make a statement here.think of how much wood. the wood hucker would have to store for it to be season. it take acres.around here they go to the landfill and cut the wood that the power company trim from right of ways. the landfill makes money and it doesnt fill the landfill.so you want season wood, buy it a season before you need it
If you are using a fireplace and have some wood not dry enough, one thing you can do is stand the 'wet' wood on end along the edge and/or back of the fireplace, while a small fire burns in front. It will dry the wood out, and as you need new logs, pull one onto the fire.