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first “pellet stove” installed today!

Fonzie | Posted in General Discussion on September 27, 2006 05:25am

I hadn’t paid a lot of attention to these pellet stoves. The one we installed today is supposed to heat 1800 sq ft. We installed it in a 1400 sq ft mechanic shop.

The thing that catches your attention in the video is that 32$ worth of fuel oil equals 4$ worth of corn in BTU output. (I think that is somewhat misleading as to how efficient each furnace/stove is. The flu on this pellet stove was fairly hot so quite a bit of those BTUs are going out the flu).

This stove is called “The Big E”.

The directions stank of course. What a lousy presentation of what you were looking for versus where it was – why don’t companies get help with their directions from communicators?

The flu needed 2 more supports higher. The only one sent was the bottom one (see second attachment). It was very unstable from there up, and it had to be placed low to insure the flu stayed hooked to the stove.

There is a air intake for combustion air.

Inside, since we had such a thick wall (10 1/2 inches) we put on a piece of cement board, then furred with vertical strips of cement board, then applied another board on the furring strips leaving 1 inch for convection at the bottom.

It burns .9 pounds of pellets per day on the lowest setting. A 60 pound bag is about 4.50. A certain amount of corn can be mixed in with this stove. Corn burns hotter.

Thought some of you might find this interesting too.

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Replies

  1. Scott | Sep 27, 2006 08:21am | #1

    Cool. As an owner of a well-used wood stove, I'd say that these units should only be considered as short distance space heaters, at best. You're going to need to circulate the air somehow.

    Nonetheless, pellet stoves are great. I will definitely be swapping in a pellet stove when I'm too old to cut, haul, stack, split, and move wood to my stove. Maybe tomorrow...

    Scott.

    Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”

    1. junkhound | Sep 28, 2006 01:52pm | #19

      when I'm too old to cut, haul, stack, split, and move wood to my stove

      DW "suggested" I put in a heat pump 6 years ago, and she didnt even ever have to split more than 1/2 <G> .... 'too old' was about 55.

      On garages.  Have a normal woodburner in the shop where I rebuild cars; oil, gas, tranny fluid on the floor often.  I have the stove 3 feet off the floor and off to the side in a double walled sheet metal lined alcove... lots easier to load at that height also, maybe not so for pellets though.  CO detector also.

      1. Scott | Sep 28, 2006 07:48pm | #23

        DW "suggested" I put in a heat pump 6 years ago, and she didnt even ever have to split more than 1/2 <G> .... 'too old' was about 55.

        I hear ya. Heating with wood is definitely an 'active' pursuit, and if you really counted the time spent fetching, bucking, trucking, stacking, splitting and hauling the stuff, the economics are questionable. Nonetheless, I still get a sense of satisfaction out of it all, but that may change.

        Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”

        1. JohnT8 | Oct 04, 2006 06:12pm | #40

          I hear ya. Heating with wood is definitely an 'active' pursuit, and if you really counted the time spent fetching, bucking, trucking, stacking, splitting and hauling the stuff, the economics are questionable. Nonetheless, I still get a sense of satisfaction out of it all, but that may change.

          You want more satisfaction?  Just go find a neighbor without wood/corn/pellet stove and take a look at their utility bill.

          And when that storm goes through and knocks the power out for a week in the middle of January...your house will still be warm.jt8

          "Most of the shadows of this life are caused by our standing in our own sunshine." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

          1. User avater
            BossHog | Oct 04, 2006 06:38pm | #41

            "you might have a harder time finding field corn still on the cob."

            I think you're right there. Most people don't pick ear corn anymore - There's no demand for it, except for squirrel corn.

            I tried boxing up squirrel corn and selling it for a few years. But there's just no money in it.

            "when that storm goes through and knocks the power out for a week in the middle of January...your house will still be warm."

            With a wood stove that would definitely be true. But what about pellet stoves? If they have an electrically-powered auger to deliver fuel to them, can they be fired manually during a power outage?
            Men are Like copiers
            You need them in reproduction but that's about it.

          2. JohnT8 | Oct 04, 2006 07:00pm | #42

            I tried boxing up squirrel corn and selling it for a few years. But there's just no money in it.

            When i was a kid, we would just get permission from bordering farmers and go pick up ears that the combines missed.  Used it for birds though, not squirrels. 

            With a wood stove that would definitely be true. But what about pellet stoves? If they have an electrically-powered auger to deliver fuel to them, can they be fired manually during a power outage?

            That is one reason I prefer woodstoves over pellet stoves.  Plus, if you're willing to sweat a bit, you can typically get the wood free, whereas the pellets always cost you.

            With a corn furnace, you might still be out of luck during a power outtage, because they are basically like a regular furnace and you wouldn't be able to power the furnace fan.  The auger would be a minor thing.jt8

            "Most of the shadows of this life are caused by our standing in our own sunshine." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

          3. ebeveridge | Oct 05, 2006 12:59am | #43

            just a quick note. I have a breckwell pellet stove and love it. it is an insert for a fireplace and pulls combustion air from the room and has a fan to help the exhaust. the exhaust pipe is not hot which makes me wonder about the original post. in fact after burning for 8 hours you can touch the pipe and it is a single wall pipe. as for when the power goes out and it does here a lot. I have a small generator the runs it good. just my 2 cents worth.

             

          4. appaldog | Oct 05, 2006 05:58am | #44

            "If they have an electrically-powered auger to deliver fuel to them, can they be fired manually during a power outage?"No they can't, which is too bad, but their power draw is low - a small generator will easily keep them going. For my own system I'm scheming out a PV system to backup the blower and auger when the power's down but I haven't got it all figured yet and it may not work.

  2. gb93433 | Sep 27, 2006 08:42am | #2

    In IA some of the people I have talked with told me they had a hard time getting the pellets at times. Some folks burn corn because corn is plentiful. I burn wood because its free. All I do is have to cut and split it.

    1. JohnT8 | Sep 27, 2006 06:29pm | #8

      Article from January.  You shouldn't have a problem with fuel in your area.

       

       jt8

      "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success."  --Albert Schweitzer

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Sep 27, 2006 06:48pm | #9

        In that article, it says a typical home burs about a bushel a day or 56 pounds. That's a far cry from the 9# (or .9#) that the OP mentioned.
        Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. [Alexis De Tocqueville]

        1. rez | Sep 27, 2006 07:02pm | #10

          From Post #1:

          A certain amount of corn can be mixed in with this stove

          be you say tomato I say tomatoe

          but we both like potatos best of all

          We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

        2. JohnT8 | Sep 27, 2006 07:10pm | #11

          In that article, it says a typical home burs about a bushel a day or 56 pounds.

          That's a far cry from the 9# (or .9#) that the OP mentioned.

          I think they were talking about stoves, not furnaces.   Bu of corn $ doesn't seem to move much (unlike propane, nat. gas, etc).  So about $2.50/day or $75 in 30 days. 

          Although I don't know if non-Midwest folks have easy access to corn.  The initial pricetag is what keeps me from doing it.

           

           

          jt8

          "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success."  --Albert Schweitzer

          Edited 9/27/2006 12:11 pm by JohnT8

          Edited 9/27/2006 12:11 pm by JohnT8

          1. User avater
            BossHog | Sep 27, 2006 07:16pm | #12

            I didn't realize the OP was talking about a different type of stove. So sue me.(-:
            I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money."

          2. JohnT8 | Sep 27, 2006 08:13pm | #13

            So sue me.

            Would that get me enough to buy a wood stove or corn furnace?   ;)

             jt8

            "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success."  --Albert Schweitzer

          3. User avater
            BossHog | Sep 27, 2006 08:29pm | #14

            No - But I'll sell ya some corn.(-:
            They're funny things, Accidents. You never have them until you're having them. [Eeyore]

          4. MisterT | Sep 28, 2006 02:20pm | #20

            No but it will get you a nice spec house!!!Namaste

            "The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character." -Big Cal Stew 2006

            "There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into 2 kinds of people and everyone else"   -Gloria Steinham

             

          5. JohnT8 | Sep 28, 2006 07:41pm | #22

            No but it will get you a nice spec house!!!

            I'm already wasting enough $$ on stuff no one but me is ever going to see.  Don't need to start adding $8k items :)

             jt8

            'Grandpa used to say "know your role and shut your hole." '   --Stilletto

  3. rez | Sep 27, 2006 01:47pm | #3

    It burns .9 pounds of pellets per day on the lowest setting.

    Fonzie- Is that .9 or 9?

    We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.
    Forrest - makin' magic every day



    Edited 9/27/2006 6:55 am ET by rez

    1. User avater
      Fonzie | Sep 27, 2006 03:26pm | #4

      rez,I'm not sure, I thought it was .9, but now that I think about it that doesn't make sense. That would have a 60 lb bag lasting 6 weeks. I'm sketchy on my details here. I just hope I live long enough to see the day we can tell the camel guys to keep their oil. I didn't know until last night they have a pellet - type insert for fireplaces that sits right in (if calculations are right). The same customer is talking about one of those at the house.

      1. rez | Sep 27, 2006 03:31pm | #5

        I was just wondering about a minimum setting that could use that little and still continue to maintain a burn.

        be but we do live in a constantly changing world of increasing technology

        We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

      2. User avater
        PeteDraganic | Oct 02, 2006 04:59pm | #36

        that would be 9.5 weeks... roughly.

        The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

        No event in American history is more misunderstood than the Vietnam War. It was misreported then, and it is misremembered now. --Richard M. Nixon, 1985

         

    2. User avater
      Gene_Davis | Sep 27, 2006 03:50pm | #6

      I surfed around and found an article discussing pellet stove economy, which stated consumption came in at about 18 pounds per 24-hour period, for early spring and late fall usage.

      1. rez | Sep 27, 2006 03:56pm | #7

        So the number in question would be 9 then.

        Thanks.View Image

        We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

  4. woodway | Sep 28, 2006 12:42am | #15

    I could be off the mark here but is there some reason you didn't raise the stove about 18 inches off the floor of the garage? If they're a garage working on cars and trucks etc., chances are good that they may have dealing with flammable liquids and any spark generating device must be 18 inches off the floor to be legal by code. If a fire develops the first question of the day will be, "who installed that stove on the floor?" The second statement will be from the garage owner who'll immediately suggest your name and telephone # to contact for insurance coverage cause the shop owners insurance company will not be willing to cover the damages.
    It might not be a bad idea to check to see if a wood stove in a shop of that type is even allowed by code, just to be on the safe side.

    1. User avater
      Fonzie | Sep 28, 2006 05:13am | #16

      Thanks for the heads up on that. If his insurance man wants it raised we'll raise it. Nothing was said about that in anything we read.I don't think this is considered equivalent to a "wood stove". It is approved even for mobile homes for example.

      Edited 9/27/2006 10:44 pm ET by Fonzie

      1. jvhannah | Sep 28, 2006 06:09am | #17

        Nobody else has raised this yet so I will throw in my 2 cents.  Isn't that a standard exhaust flue of a fire burning device.  I know my chimney code knowledge is way, way out of date, but doesn't the top need to be 2 feet above anything within 10'.  Is that rule of thumb way out of date.  It seems to me your are just asking for some of the exhaust byproduct (smoke) to be drawn into the building.

        JV

        1. User avater
          Fonzie | Sep 28, 2006 03:25pm | #21

          There is a blower that forces the air out the flu. No draw is needed.

          1. jvhannah | Sep 29, 2006 06:10am | #24

            The area I am concerned about is that when the exhaust fan you mentioned is running. a negative pressure will exist inside the house and air from out side the house will be drawn in.  Thus exhaust product could be pulled into the house since it is being dumped out right a house level and not above where it will tend to rise away.

            Let us know how it works.  I have seen the same type of exhaust on space heaters, ptak units, etc.  It has always bothered me.

            JH

          2. User avater
            Fonzie | Sep 29, 2006 06:15am | #25

            jvhannah,No, the air that is being forced out the flu has nothing to do with the air inside the heated space. It is drawn in the intake.

          3. jvhannah | Sep 29, 2006 07:16am | #26

            Let me make sure that I understand what you are saying.  The stove/heater is a completely closed system which draws all its combustion air-supply from outside and then routes the air thru a firebox and then exhausts it back outside??

            I seem to remember a big door in the picture (my memory is no better than it ever was).  How good is the gasket on that door?

            I've seen it done before I just don't trust exhaust byproducts below the eave of the house.  I'm really impressed with Mike Smith's chimney.  Love the corbelled brickwork.

            Hope it all works out well,  JH

          4. Scott | Sep 29, 2006 07:51am | #27

            Hi Guys.

            There is a pretty good discussion of this issue here:

            http://www.woodheat.org/outdoorair/outdoorairmyth.htm

            Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”

          5. JohnT8 | Sep 29, 2006 05:16pm | #29

            Now I could be wrong, but that article looks like a big pile of doggie doo.  He keeps claiming there is no scientific evidence that providing make-up air helps... but he has no problem postulating AGAINST make-up air without any scientific evidence.

            That section on reverse air flow...where the exhaust is forced out the intake.  The conditions that cause that are independent of whether you have an air intake or not.  In the case of an intake, then it exhausts out the intake.  In the case of NO intake, then it is going to exhaust into the house (or simply smother the fire).

            And the very simple fact that overrides the whole thing is that a depressurized house is going to equalize... no matter WHERE it gets the air from, it will equalize pressure.  It is MUCH better to control where it gets the make-up air than just let it draw it from wherever it can (chimney, basement, etc.).

             

            jt8

            'Grandpa used to say "know your role and shut your hole." '   --Stilletto

            Edited 9/29/2006 10:28 am by JohnT8

            Edited 9/29/2006 10:29 am by JohnT8

          6. Scott | Sep 30, 2006 05:32am | #30

            Durn, now you're going to make me re-read the article (it's been a few years). I'll post a reply tomorrow; but from what I recall your point on equalization is good. I think the main point of the article was to refute the need for a combustion air wall projection (which the code had required and which the 'scientists' had recommended); it was all since been repealed. Nonetheless, the article provides food for  thought. I'll give it another look.

            Scott.

            Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”

            Edited 9/30/2006 12:49 am by Scott

          7. JohnT8 | Oct 02, 2006 09:37am | #34

            Scott, I have never understood why folks get so worked up about the concept of replacement air.   That link you provided is similar to others I have seen.  Some of those folks act like Satan is behind the make-up-air movement. 

            I'd really like to see a site with a ".edu" do a real study.  All we get are woodstove sites telling us it is good and anti-make-up-air folks telling us it is bad.  I for one would like to see some REAL science on the topic.

            Until then, I just have my common sense.  And as I sit here sipping my icewater through a cheap straw, I notice that the water level in the cup goes down as I suck it out the top of the straw.  A straw sealed at one end isn't going to work very well. 

            Just my $0.02.jt8

            'Grandpa used to say "know your role and shut your hole." '   --Stilletto

          8. User avater
            Fonzie | Sep 29, 2006 03:33pm | #28

            I don't have a complete understanding of this pellet thing either. We installed it what we considered better by far than the crappy instructions. It appears that all the air that is involved in the burn (all happens in a little firebox just behind the glass door) comes from the outside air which is sucked in through the 2 inch intake. The fire happens, then the exhaust is blown out through the double wall pipe. The pipe is fairly hot outside, so the thing isn't terribly efficient. I did smell a little smoke when the thing was starting up. My nose either tired or things got better when it got going.

          9. User avater
            PeteDraganic | Oct 02, 2006 05:06pm | #37

            question...

            When you guys say it burns corn, do you mean cleaned corn cobs or kernels or both?

            The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

            No event in American history is more misunderstood than the Vietnam War. It was misreported then, and it is misremembered now. --Richard M. Nixon, 1985

             

          10. appaldog | Oct 04, 2006 06:25am | #38

            kernelscobs etc, along with about anything else, can be ground up a made into pellets, but not burned on their own because of the feed system for the fuel, usually some sort of stoker arrangement.

          11. JohnT8 | Oct 04, 2006 05:49pm | #39

            When you guys say it burns corn, do you mean cleaned corn cobs or kernels or both?

            Field corn kernals.  I think the pellet stoves and corn stoves are similar in that they have hoppers that can augerfeed the fuel in.  Cobs would complicate the issue.  Plus, you might have a harder time finding field corn still on the cob.

            Corn is running about $2.65/bu right now.  Typically averages around $2.50/bu.  Doesn't move much.  Been about $2.50/bu for quite a while.

             jt8

            "Most of the shadows of this life are caused by our standing in our own sunshine." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. bushman1000 | Sep 28, 2006 09:46am | #18

    A friend installed one last year in his 1920's house.  In the fall and spring a bag of pellets would average 3 or more days.  In the coldest part of the winter, January and February, when temperatures drop to -40 for a week or more at a time, he would burn a little more than a bag a day.  He experimented with corn mixed in the pellets and found he could turn the feed setting down one notch for the same heat output.  His stove vents out the wall, with incoming air pipe through the centre of the outfeed pipe.  I was impressed.  My neighbor now sells exterior water heating corn stoves for infloor heating.  They are impressive too.

    1. appaldog | Sep 30, 2006 07:51am | #33

      I just ordered an outdoor hot water furnace that burns barley, rye, wheat, and other small grains, or corn or pellets if you want to cough up the $. For those in farming areas with access to screenings and low quality grain that otherwise has no use, there are no downsides that I know of.

      1. JohnT8 | Oct 02, 2006 09:39am | #35

        For those in farming areas with access to screenings and low quality grain that otherwise has no use, there are no downsides that I know of.

        Tut, tut, tut... and it will be on your head when the utility start laying employees off due to reduced demand!   And all of them with families to feed.   ;)

         jt8

        'Grandpa used to say "know your role and shut your hole." '   --Stilletto

  6. User avater
    BruceT999 | Sep 30, 2006 06:03am | #31

    If the flu is very hot, wouldn't it make sense to run it vertically INSIDE the building before penetrating the wall, as stoves were ducted 80 years ago. Some of the excess heat would radiate into the room that way.

    BruceT

    1. User avater
      Fonzie | Sep 30, 2006 07:19am | #32

      Bruce T999,Yes, I think you have probably come up with next year's improved model.

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