This seems to be ‘The Year of the Roof’, so I’m thinking hard about getting my own brake to do simple flashings, drip-edges, fascia wraps, and similar items. Especially as the 40′ of custom D-E I bought last week cost me double what it cost last year. Hmmm….
Thing is, duh, I don’t know much about brakes…but what da hell, that never stopped me before. 😉
What I do know is, it’s gotta be portable (I’ve got no space in my shop to set it up permanently), and I’d like to do 8′ but could get by with a 6′ machine at a minimum. Other than that, I need advice.
Most of the valley and step flashings I use are galvanised but I use mostly alu for D-E and very occasionally a rich client will let me sell him on copper (whoo-hoo!!).
What am I looking for? How much dough am I talking about?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice….
Replies
bump
Edited 5/18/2009 7:54 pm ET by frammer52
What guage Galvanized? A "light" portable brake will struggle with 24 ga. and get sprung bending thicker. I've sprung them with 16 oz copper. A "heavy" portable will handle 24 ga galvy and 16 oz cu, but I wouldn't bend anything thicker with any regularity.
Also, most portables won't hem much less than 5/8" and the reverse bends are 3/4" or wider.
Tapco and Vanguard are two good brands.
Top clamping is highly preferable to end clamping.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
you said Vanguard....did you mean Vanmark ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
you said Vanguard....did you mean Vanmark ?
Yessir - Vanguard makes scaffolding and truck racks. Ooops.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
TH.... 10' 6 is so much better than 8'
We have a VanMark... bought it in '82
bought a new upper bar for it 2 years ago so it could take the new assessories that run on it
new.... think about $1200 - $1600
go to VanMark & Tapco website and look at the pro models
the more things you can bend with it,the faster it will pay for itself
in this financial climate, you could pick one up used
or work a deal with your local dealer
i look at Tapco and find them a little less interesting than the VanMark....but Tapco has more dealersMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, you've seen my shop. Where the heck would I store a 10' brake when I wasn't using it? Yeah, I want a ten-footer, but it ain't gonna happen. Even an eight-footer will have to go up on the roof rack of the truck if I take it to a job; my new truck only has a 6½' bed.
I'll take a look at those websites, but I'm hoping like heck to find one used 'cause a grand is about the top end of the budget, I think.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
the new pro models have a slip-hinge nose, so they can hem less than 3/4
the top nose has special tracks so assey's can roll the length
you definitely want a top clamp, not the end cam clamp
try before you buyMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
An 8' brake is much longer than that, especially if it's an end clamper.
The 1st brake I had never went inside. It was either on the truck racks or on the job. The one I have now was mounted to the side rail of a flatbed trailer for a couple of years. There's little if anything to rust on them, so you could chain it up outside. I'd get a 10'.
Also, as Danski mentioned, look for a 19" throat over a 14". The 14" throat forces you to work outside the jaws rather than inside for a lot more bends which is hard to do solo.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I'm learning a lot from all the posts, but I'm also learning how much more there is to learn about these tools.
For instance, I thought I'd have to buy a separate slicer to cut my stock to width, but it sounds like some brakes come with a 'slitter'...?
19" Throat depth; yeah--it makes sense altho I would rarely if ever have to bend anything wider than 24" overall (12" per side). That being the case, would it be worth putting the extra dough into a deep-throat brake?
What else...?
Oh, yeah: what is the difference between a siding brake and a sheet-metal brake?
Thanks to all, and keep the info coming, guys; this is highly educational....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Always opt for the deep throat !!
I thought I'd have to buy a separate slicer to cut my stock to width, but it sounds like some brakes come with a 'slitter'...?
Those slitters are POS, IMHO.
If all you're using is coil stock, they're great. I don't think they'll cut galvy for very long without dulling and they ripple copper pretty badly.
I've had better luck just using a utitlity knife - score and snap.
Oh, yeah: what is the difference between a siding brake and a sheet-metal brake?
All portables are "siding" brakes, because siding contractors are the biggest purchaser of them. A "shop" brake is not portable, although nobody's told Walter that. He's got one hooked to a trailer and I've sent my 4' brake up on scaffold 6 or 7 stories tall.
th.... there are 2 types of coil slitters... one is a wheel that runs along the brake
we got one of those.... they don't work very well
we also have a 25 year old crank slitter, can take 24" coil stock, has adjustable cutting wheels...set the wheels for the width of the slit, turn the crank, perfect slits
they run about $200.... well worth itMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I looked at the add-on slitters on that website, and it does look about like you and Grant said. Kind of like a heavy-duty rotary paper trimmer; I can see how it would max out in anything heavier than alu coil. That crank slitter you mentioned makes sense.
I gotta be careful here, tho; my tool-buying hit a plateau a few years back when I managed to spend a whole hour in the biggest tool store near here without finding a single tool I wanted that I didn't already have. But as I start getting into specialised tooling for sub-trades, I can see me going nutz and winding up with an empty bank account and a shop so full o' stuff ya can't walk across it....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Those slitters are POS, IMHO. and they ripple copper pretty badly
I have a Tapco with a slitter and really had problems with it at first, had to learn to use it now I love it.
As for copper, I had the same problem with the ripples.
I sold a job, bought alot of copper, set up & nothing but ripples, can you say panic?
I called the dealer & he called the rep, they called me right back & told me to remove the cutting wheels from the slitter & remove the paper thin shim washers that were behind them & reinstall the wheels without the shims allowing a small space between the wheels, worked like magic,
No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
The brake doesn't "come" with a slitter, but it is an accessory. If you get the Tapco coil holder, the slitter works on that, too.
Here is a link to the Tapco slitter: http://www.amazon.com/Tapco-10379-Pro-Cut-Off-Case/dp/B00002252F/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1242774092&sr=8-14
I would get the 19" deep brake... like this: http://www.amazon.com/Tapco-10558-10-Foot-6-Inch-19-Inch-Portable/dp/B00002252C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1242774092&sr=8-1
Here is a "straight sheet metal brake" for comparison: http://www.amazon.com/Jet-754222-HB-2248N-Bench-Model/dp/B0007M6H6C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1242774417&sr=1-1
"Box and pan" sheet metal brake: http://www.amazon.com/Jet-754122-BP-2248N-Bench-Model/dp/B0007M6H58/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1242774417&sr=1-9
http://gulfport.craigslist.org/tls/1174568739.html
http://gulfport.craigslist.org/tls/1174291299.html
That guy is dreaming.
Don't need more stuff. Thanks :)
The galvanised I've been getting from the big box is better than a few years ago. Used to be they carried 30ga only; now I can get 24 or 28. This week I've been looking at some 30ga flashings I installed 15 years ago and they're still in good enough shape but won't last another 15 so they're gonna get replaced with the shingles.
A 5/8 hem is the smallest I can get out of the tin fabricator here in the village, so that's okay. He can do a ½" reverse for the nose of my drip edge, tho. He's using a 10' bench brake; I don't know what brand or model, but it's way too much machine for my space and budget.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
What kind of brake?
A siding brake like a Tapco or Van Mark... or a typical sheet metal brake?
Smallest Tapco seems to be 8'-6" and depending on the model, a Van Mark can be had down to 2'. Both are mostly aluminum and won't rust away.
I have a 10'-6" Tapco Pro model with a 19" throat. It has a hard time hemming 16oz copper, and in order to do it, you have to rest the part you want to hem on the nose and hinge, then bring the bottom up to close the hem. You can't close the hem with the nose of the brake... not 10' at least.
Both Tapco and Van Mark have slitters designed to run along the top of the brake as a guide. Not gonna get that with a typical sheet metal brake, although at least one German manufacturer offers that as an option (Schechtl). You can also get coil holders for the siding brakes, and the slitters usually work there, too.
You can buy Chinese made 4' straight apron brakes for around $500, usually rated at 20ga galv. These weigh around 300#. Box and pan versions run around $700. Proformer offered a 6' version, but I think they went under. You don't have the throat depth limitations with a typical sheet metal brake.... hems are usually easier. These brakes are steel, so they will rust. Bending edges normally can't be replaced, unlike siding brakes.
I would hate to have to work with stuff in short lengths. Chimney flashings... sure, but not valley and drip edge. Being able to slit material down to size might be important to you... maybe not.
It would be nice to have a 10' at the shop to make up what you need, and a 4' to have on site for small stuff. I can physically move my 10' Tapco by myself, but it isn't easy.
Lately, there have been many siding brakes on Craigslist.
Edited 5/18/2009 11:48 pm ET by danski0224
Hey, If I was gonna be doing much fascia wraps, drip edge, etc, I'd spring for at least a ten footer. In this size, I like the Van Marks myself, but the Tapco are good too.
That said, for the little bit of bending I do, I bought a Tapco Windy last fall from a distributor in Michigan. It makes a nice square bend & is easy for me to move alone. I think it goes to 8' 6". I think it was about $650 shipped to me here in Minnesota. I told the salesman what I wanted & what I was gonna be using it for & he said that was the one for me. Been real happy with it so far. If you're interested, I can get you the contact info for them.
Mike
articat,
I have been using Tapco windy's for 21 years now. am on my second one( the first was stolen) I would not want to side and wrap house after house after house with it but--- it does EXACTLY what I want it to do, it has been durable and I have bent copper on it sometimes, good enough-- really is good enough---- it is suited to the tasks I assign it.stephen
...Tapco Windy last fall from a distributor in Michigan. It makes a nice square bend & is easy for me to move alone. I think it goes to 8' 6". I think it was about $650 shipped....
That sounds like a possible. If you could e-mail the contact info for that guy to [email protected] I'd appreciate it.
Thanks, bro.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I sent you an email. Good luck shopping.
Mike
I think I flushed it by accident. Was cleaning out spam earlier and not paying close enough attention. Can you re-send? Sorry....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Sure - on its way
Anything less then a 10' machine, I think will disappoint you.
Since you want to do long runs (DE, valley and fascia ) the extra joints needed by a small brake can be frustrating.
As far as transporting. I can carry my 10'6" brake around in a 6' bed no problem.
Working with the typical siding brakes can be frustrating when you have thicker material.
With my Tapco I can bend a full lengh of 29ga. , 6' of 26ga. 'D' coil or 3' of 'E' coil 26ga. And about 18" of 24ga.
I've only done short pieces of 16oz. Cu., and the literature claims it can handle it. BUT I think it might be a stretch of the brakes capability.
Sphere has a Tapco, but I see that Grant still bent up a bunch of pans for him.... maybe he'll chime in.
Bottom line IMO is get as big as you can or you will have "brake envy" for the life of the tool.
I've got a used side handle brake that I would give you a good deal on... but the drive may not be worth it.
I also have a top handle brake that I don;t want to part with.
both are 10'6"
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
If things go as planned, we're gonna see you guys this summer at some point so I'll keep that in mind.
When you say 'side handle' do you mean an end-clamp brake? I don't know the difference myself, but the advice posted here so far seems to indicate that front-clamp is much preferable.
??
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
When you say 'side handle' do you mean an end-clamp brake? I don't know the difference myself, but the advice posted here so far seems to indicate that front-clamp is much preferable.
TH - there are two types of locking mechanisms. The control handles are either on the top or one end.
The problem with the end clamp is you have to go to that end to clamp it. If you have a 10' work piece, you have to let go of one end to go to the clamp end. The work piece will often move before or as you clamp it.
With the top clamp mechanism, you stand near the middle and can more easily hold the work piece in place while clamping.
But, I wore an end clamp brake out, bending with it every day. I'd never used a top clamp, so I didn't know any difference. I don't think they make many end clamps anymore. I seldom see one.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
yes a top clamp is preferable. my extra brake is a side clamp model. The side clamps were the norm for MANY years until the top clamp was invented. I did pretty well with my old side clamp until the new top clamp model came out and I couldn't do without it. It is far superior in abilities and operation.nonetheless, the old style still works and may be plenty for as often as you would use it.
<!----><!----><!---->
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Thge windy that someone mentioned in a prior post is a side clamp.
If you are cutting and bending much copper and steel, you will find that the portable brakes are not what you would want.
Again, thanks to all for all the good info. I'm gonna be checking with the guy Arctic Cat recommended, and I'm also gonna be in touch with Pete about the extra brake he has. Next week I'll probably have to head down toward Montreal for a day and there are equipment suppliers down that way I should stop in to see.
Obviously, for my purposes, a good-condition used brake is more than sufficient. I'm not planning on going into competition with my local tin guy, I just want to avoid those annoying 'emergency' runs to his shop in the middle of a job when something comes up unexpectedly....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
dinosaur, if you are just looking for occasional use ,the "wind" may work great for you,
however-- if you could pick up a decent top clamping model ,used, for the same money--even better. I had a windy that rode on my truck for 20 years--- bent miles of W valley with it and every scrap of chimney flashing for probably 18-20 years of it. I have bent copper with it--- but i wouldn't want to bend many sections of copper W valley with it regularly---- the last few years I have done quite a few copper back pans as well with it--- up to 6 feet wide--- bends it fine. I don't normally do a hem with it--- but i generally do a little kick with it that stiffens things niceley.stephen
Thanks, Stephen.
All the good info you guys have been feeding me is making me more and more certain getting a brake of some kind is a good idea. It's going to boil down to availability and budget, but it's no longer one of those 'maybe someday' kinda things....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I see alot in pawn shops
Not too many of those in this area, but also I'm not sure at all I wanna go that route. I'd want a very solid paper trail on any used tool I bought from a hock shop.
Too many free-lance socialists in the world as it is; don't do no good to encourage 'em....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I'd want a very solid paper trail on any used tooOh yes of course its stolen, not too many people going sell the high dollar tools in a pawn shop. that why anything I buy from a pawn shop. I keep the reciept in my truck
Please tell me I've misunderstood your comment, Bro--sounds to me like you're saying you'd buy something you kinda figure was maybe stolen...as long as it came with 'good paper.' I hope I'm wrong about that.
Maybe my own comment wasn't too clear, either. When I said I want a good solid paper trail on a used tool, I meant I want a trail of clean receipts right back to the original purchase from the dealer when the item was new. Just like on a vehicle.
I've always had a lotta respect for you. I'd really have thought you'd be more likely to use a tool thief as foundation filler than to become part of his income chain.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I noticed the following in todays Ottawa Citizen 10' Port -O - Bender aluminum
Timesaver Pro II $575 613 290-9168: 613 761-3340
I rarely see a brake for sale around here & i bought mine years ago for $500 cash & even though i rarely use it its great to have around when needed
Im not familliar with the one for sale but if you take a piece of alluminum about 3" wide and 6' long and do a minimum bend of 1/2" it should tell you if it has any life left in it without adjustments i have found
That is a good one! Used to own 2 of them.
I have van mark trim brake 12’ 10’ and 8’ for sale. But their in san angelo tx