Replies

1. 
   rez | Sep 01, 2007 11:13pm | #1

   Greetings groovedude

   and Welcome to Breaktime.

   Apparently it takes a length of time for some first time posts to make it here to the folders.

   This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again which will increase it's viewing.

   Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.

   Cheers

    

2. 
   Stilletto | Sep 02, 2007 12:10am | #2

   I like box newels,  for the most part they are easy to deal with.  All the rough mounting of 2x4's and other means of support are covered. 

   My box newels usually have an inside width that allows a 3"x3" post to be screwed to the side of the floor joists or bridging that I install from the basement.  I rip 2 2x4's to 3" and screw them together. 

   Sometimes the bottom of the landings and floor system are sheetrocked over,  in that case I cut the the floor sheathing back to the center of the nearest joist(s) and screw my 3x3 to the framing. 5" GRK's and gorilla glue are my fasteners of choice through the joist then into my rough post, this post must be plumb or the newel will also be skewed.   

   If fastening from above or below is out then I cut a 1-1/2" thick x3" square and glue and screw that to the floor where the newel goes.  Lots of glue and screws through the newel into the block no higher than the finished makes it work well.  Glue on the subfloor and around all mating surfaces of the block. 

   Make sure that if you want your stair skirts to die into your newel that you plan for that in your bottom cuts,  alot of the time that 1x side of your newel that hangs over is a great place to screw into some solid framing. 

    

    

    

    

    

   Matt

1. 
   groovedude | Sep 02, 2007 01:36am | #3

   thanks alot! It was great to hear back from someone i was getting a little worried that i might be done with the job before i received a reply. I will be starting the stair/guardrail system on sept.4th and all of your hints will be a great help. By the way I like your screen name.

1. 
   Stilletto | Sep 02, 2007 01:44am | #4

   Maybe someone else will be along here soon to give you some better advice.  But what I posted earlier works for me. 

   Another idea that I failed to mention earlier,  fastening rails to to newels.  Mine come with a seperate cap for the post.  

   I like to drill from the outside of the post through the face of the newel,   large enough so the shank of the screw passes through but not the head.  Then take a right angle attachment that Milwaukee makes and screw the rail to the newel from the inside.  With the screw pushed all the way through the hole it works very well.  Solid as a rock. 

   Good luck. 

    

   Matt

1. 
   groovedude | Sep 02, 2007 02:07am | #5

   I am pretty sure that these box newels do not have a loose cap. I will most likely end up using rail bolts because the client is using iron balusters. Luckily we only have one newel in a landing tread the rest is guard rail for catwalks and open greatrooms. Would there be any benefit to using oak or maple 3 inch stock. I do have a fully stocked cabinet shop with all kinds of wood.

1. 
   Stilletto | Sep 02, 2007 06:56am | #8

   Iron ballusters can be a pain.  Not all of the powder coating is the same thickness.  Sanding to fit and alot of patience is important. 

   As for your stock question I can't answer that.  Too many unknowns to me,  as well as personal tastes for the customer.  If you are talking about handrail species. 

    

   Matt

2. 
   Ragnar17 | Sep 02, 2007 11:53pm | #10

   My box newels usually have an inside width that allows a 3"x3" post to be screwed to the side of the floor joists or bridging that I install from the basement.  I rip 2 2x4's to 3" and screw them together. 

   Matt,

   I've had lots of trouble installing structural 4x4 cores for newel posts like you're describing above.  In nine cases out of ten, there are doubled floor joists/headers around the stair openings, and of course, the volume occupied by the doubled framing is exactly where I'd want to locate the newels.

   Is there a way around this problem that I'm overlooking?

1. 
   Stilletto | Sep 03, 2007 03:11am | #11

   The newels with the 3x3 cores are on landings,  framing is rarely doubled here on landings. 

   If I run into a case where the framing is doubled,  I still remove the subfloor in the area if access from below is not an option,  then  I cut my newel to fit the framing.  Might be a C shaped bottom of the newel or might be a half lap,  most situations are different. 

   After it's screwed and glued to the framing I install blocking where needed then put the subfloor back down.    

   Then there are the times where the landing has members doubled at a 90 degree corner both ways.  Then overlapping the drywall  far enough to have the skirt die into it is the best option.  This is usually an open stringer staircase.  Screws,  glue  and plugs for that type of deal,  along with the block screwed to the floor for the newel to slide over.   

   Very important thing I learned was not cut the bottom of the newel off until you've determined what that bottom can be used for. 

    

   Matt

3. 
   dovetail97128 | Sep 02, 2007 05:35am | #6

   groove,

   There are many ways to set the box newels.

   I am working on a place right now where the newels were supplied by a vendor who also supplied what must be 8" long double ended bolts. One end is lag screw threads, the other is machine threads.

   Look at this :http://www.stairservice.com/osc/lj3008-suretite-newel-post-fastener16-p-1500.html

   I have set newels by cutting a block 4" high and making it a snug fit inside the box newel , then glue and lag the block to the floor , glue and finish nail/screw the box newel to the block.

   Or angle iron run down along side floor joists and screwed off to both the newel and the joists, or large (1" +) dowels glued into a floor and up into the newel.

   You might want to go online to various stair part manufacturers sites and see whats out there to use as well.

   "Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca

4. 
   mathewson | Sep 02, 2007 06:23am | #7

   groovedude,
   I've set my share of newel posts and here are some things I consider for lay-out:
   For the upper landings post-
   relative to the bullnose allow enough room for the newel and any applied moldings.
   if the landing runs into a hallway will the half newel extend beyond the corner.
   if it is new construction box-out the joist framing & re-sheet the subfloor.
   if a remodel you may have to use a "sure-tite" and hit the rim joist (second choice)
   since you have a shop run your posts through the planer to get the right size for the newel.

   For the starting step- there was a code change in 2006. The newel can not be more than half the distance from the front edge of the first step.

   I've attached a couple of pics of a job I did a few weeks ago which sounds similar to waht your doing.

1. 
   groovedude | Sep 02, 2007 09:20pm | #9

   Nice pics looks very similar to the job I'm doing only I have no half newels. All of the railing terminates at the wall without rosettes,half,or full newels. That means railing to drywall! I've never seen or done that before but that is what they want. Thanks for all your help. KJELL

5. 
   gordsco | Sep 03, 2007 04:45am | #12

   By the time I come to set box newels, hardwood floors and nosings are already installed and finished. Inside of newel is usually 3"X3" so I slightly undercut blocks of 3/4" ply and stack/ screw/ glue them in place 4 or 5 blocks high to make a base for the newel to slip over.

    

    

   Gord