I’m a DIY homeowner, and a plumbing novice for sure, so please excuse my ignorance. I’ve got a shut-off valve, located in the basement between floor joists, that is connected to the dishwasher, I think. It has developed a steady drip/leak. I’m assuming the best thing would be to replace the whole thing? What’s the easiest way to do this…can I ‘unsolder’ the unit, and slip a new one in it’s place? Or do I need to cut out the valve, and replace? If I have to cut-out, I now have a larger gap between pipes that I would need to bridge…
I don’t have much in the way of plumbing tools, so by the time I buy a torch, maybe it’s more cost effective to just call the plumber? I would like to learn something, so that I wouldn’t have to call next time!
Thanks! Always great info on these boards!
Replies
First is it copper piping? If galvanized or plastic the you might have different setups.
If it is copper then there might 3 times of ways that the valve is connected.
It might be soldered, It might be threaded onto a soldered threaded fiting or it might use a compression fitting.
If it is the later too then it is just a case of unscrewing and replacing. That is assuming the DW side is threaded fiting (usually a compression style).
But exactly where it is dripping? Dry it off and check. Most likely it is at the stem when the handle goes into the valve.
Close the valve slightly and then open it all the way. Then tighten the "packing nut" up. That is the nut around where the stem comes out of the valve. You only want to tighten it up about 1/4 turn or less.
That will usually stop the leak.
Where is it leaking?
If it is around the stem try to tighten the packing nut a little. That is the hex shaped nut around the stem.
J.
Where is it leaking? If it's leaking around the stem, tighten the packing nut (the nut around the stem that is closest to the handle) a little. If the little drain valve is leaking, and tightening it doesn't work (use a pair of pliers, but don't overdo), remove the nut and make sure the gasket inside isn't torn/missing.
Unless the valve has a corrosion hole in it or some such, it should not be necessary to replace. At worst you'd need to remove the valve stem and replace the packing.
If you do need to replace the valve (assuming the pipes are copper), you can either cut the pipe on both sides, or cut on one side, spring the pipe sideways a bit so the two cut ends don't interfere with each other, then unsolder the other end.
When replacing, use "repair couplings" to splice the cuts. These are regular couplings used to join two pipes, except that there is no ridge inside to keep the coupling centered at the joint. You (after suitable pipe preparation) slide the coupling over one pipe, move the other pipe into place, then slide the coupling back so it's centered over the joint. Then "sweat solder" the joint.
Pick up a beginner's plumbing book that will show you how to solder pipe joints. This book should also show you how to replace stem packing, etc.
If you buy a torch, spend a little extra to get a decent one. One with trigger control is ideal, but at least don't get a real cheap one that will sputter and make learning all that much more difficult.
If you have galvanized iron pipe it's probably best to call a plumber.
If you have plastic pipe then you treat it kind of like copper, only use the appropriate plastic fittings (and glue, if it's the glue-type plastic).
Forgot to add: If you absolutely DO have to change the valve, don't install another "globe" valve like the one that's in there. Install a lever-operated "ball" valve. Less flow resistance, much easier to operate, and much less likely to leak.
Edited 4/15/2005 11:11 am ET by DanH
Here's what I'd recommend.
If you feel helpless but want to learn, buy a basic book on plumbing. (Maybe something from one of those Time-Life series) It's an odd trade with a language all its own, but as I said, if you want to learn don't let that dissuade you.
The book will guide you as to what to do and which tools to buy. If you start to like it I've just created a monster, because the tool quest will only end when you stop breathing.
On the other hand, be realistic. If you're not "into it" just call a plumber. They can probably fix it in ten minutes and it may be cheaper than it would to buy the tools to do it yourself.
Good luck!
Great, thanks for the tips! It is copper piping...I'll take a look tonight and try to tighten the 'packing nut' as I think that's where it's dripping from
If you replace the valve, what I'd recommend for a DIY is to get a threaded brass ball valve and two thread adapters. Soldering is a skill that takes some practice. Ordinary tees and ells and thread adapters can take a whole lot of heat because they're just a single piece of copper. Valves on the other hand contain some plastic parts, and can easily be ruined if you don't have the soldering skill of a pro. You may also need a union to put this together, depending on where things are. But you want to lay it out so you can put it together by turning rather than burning where the valve is.
The threaded assembly will take more time and cost a few bucks more in parts, which is why the pros don't usually do it that way. But it has the advantage of making it easier to replace the valve again in the future if you have to. On really high quality work, I've seen pros use thread adapters and threaded hose bibs, to make the inevitable replacements easier.
When soldering in a joist bay, it helps a lot to have some scraps of sheet metal to protect the wood from getting charred. Also have a bucket of water and wet rags standing by.
-- J.S.
tighten the nut under the handle about 1/8 of a turn at a time till it quits leaking with the valve stem at about half open position... you DO NOT want to over tighten that nut... only just enough to stop the drip...
that is if yur packing is what is leaking..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Harris - I'm a DIY HO myself - most of the time. Through experience, however, I've learned where my limitations are and when it's best to rely upon the professional to get a job done.
Couple of suggestions BEFORE you pull that valve joint apart:
1. Find out where the nearest shut off valve for that circuit is. May not have one, in which case it's the whole house that does without water till you're finished. you cannot solder when there is water in the pipes, so they have to be completely drained before you can try anything.
2. If it's not the packing that has gone bad, leave the thing alone for the moment. Put a bucket underneath to catch the drip. Go out and buy the BEST soldering kit you can get. The cheap ones (i.e., Sears and Master Mechanic) aren't worth the money you waste.
Don't buy propane torch kits. Buy MAPP gas instead. The pros use a mixture of acetylene and oxygen (I think), but that takes special training to hadle and is much too much to attempt without the proper training. Leave it to the pros.
The difference between propane and Mapp gas is heat. The hotter the flame that can be applied to the joint the quicker the job can be done and, generally, the better the result.
3. Practice, practice, practice. Before you start to pull apart you home's water supply, go down to the local hardware or lumber store and buy some 1/2" fittings and a length of 1/2" copper pipe. Get yourself a decent tubing cutter with a built-in deburring device (prefereably from a professional plumbing tool supply house), as well as wire brushes for cleaning the pipe, black granite paper to sand everything smooth and clean (i.e., till it shines), non-lead solder, flux, a non-flammable heat deflector, and a fire extinguisher, and a couple of cheap throw-away flux brushes, and a clamp or locking pliers to hold the sample to your workbench.
Then practice soldering while things are held in place clamped to your workbench.
4. Try out your new tools and keep trying till you get comfortable handling a tool that puts out 8 or 10" of flame!!! Keep practicing till the solder sucks right up into and around the joint and looks neat when you're finished. Keep practicing till your pipe fitting doesn't look like it's been "blued" from overheating.
5. Practice with at least one valve - they're generally made of brass and are thicker than copper pipe - so they take longer to heat up.
6. If you can, especially if this is your first attempt, solder on to one end a 45 degree joint and a male threaded insert so that you can attach it to a hose bib on the outside of your house. WHEN IT'S COOL, attach it to the hose bib and turn on the house water. See if anything leaks. Try the valve.
7. When you feel comfortable and have proven to yourself that you know what you're doing, get the wife and kids out of the house for the day (it always takes longer than you expect and there's no need to have them hear you cussing about), have everything ready and go at it.
8. Start early on a weekday, just in case you do have to call in a plumber before the end of the day. Weekends are a bitch of a time to find one.
9. Take your time. Good luck.
10. In the end, if you're not sure - call a pro and watch him do it. It's not that difficult, but there is a procedure to be followed. The ramifications of not doing it correctly is more than just a nasty headache.
Griff.
btw ... "between the floor joists" is an excellent place to start a house fire with a plumbers torch.
Think compression fittings ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I don't know if you have your answer yet, but this is my two cents. They make valves and fittings for plastic, copper, and galvinized pipe that are compression; you don't have to solder, glue, or thread anything to install them. If you are [not] going to use a torch often, buy a small propane rig. A so-called best rig will cost you much more than a plumber will cost. Lots of luck!
Pretty well what everyone said, plus:
If it's the stem packing (or the stem O-ring, same idea, they keep water from leaking past the stem when the valve is open), you may want to check (and service) the following components for damage, dirt, or wear:
First, make sure you've shut the water upstream of the valve you're working on, or at the house's main shut-off.
Then, pull the stem right out of the valve body by loosening the stem nut. Once you've backed the stem out, check the stem packing or O-ring for wear, flattening, distortion, or damage. The stem nut sometimes has a very thin fibre or heavier rubber washer that must also be sound; sometimes the latter is backed by a metal disk.
Now check the rubber washer at the end of the valve stem for hardening, wear, cracks or missing chunks. Check the valve seat (inside the valve body, where the stem washer bottoms to cut the water flow); it should be smooth to your finger rather than rough feeling. Check the valve bore - the part the O-ring rides in - for smoothness as well.
Most times, you only need brush and clean out any gunk or grit, then apply plumber's grease to the packing or O-ring, and to the bore the O-ring rides in, to the bore itself, and to the valve stem threads. Plumber's grease is a miracle cure imho.
A pro plumbing shop will stock replacement packings/O-rings, stem washers, and fibre washers should these components need replacing. If the valve bore or valve seat are damaged, usually you're looking at replacing the whole shut-off valve.
I hope you go ahead and give it a shot. Plumbing repairs can be frustrating, but if you are methodical, you will win and feel great.