I’ve subscribed to FH mag since it started, but this is my first time here so if I’m in the wrong pew, somebody clue me in. I spent 20 years in construction, twelve as self-employed builder in residential/commercial, but I’ve been out of the trade as an educator for 19 years. FH is all that keeps me up with what’s new.
My question: I’m helping the local library out here in west Texas as they apply for a grant to expand. Problem is, they share a wall with a two-story cut stone building (ca. 1900)that has been plastered over. To add on, sure, the ideal is a stepflash, but into plastered stone? Ugh! Into the plaster? Some is thick enough, but some is only 1/8 inch thick over the irregular cut stone. Any good new stuff to apply to bed the flashing? What about adding more plaster to bed the new flashing? I’m afraid it won’t bond. Help me, guys.
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Some pictures would be helpfull, but a deep reglet cut parallel to the roof would be my 1st suggestion. I'm assuming you're calling plaster what I call stucco.
copper p0rn
I'm thinking a reglet (groove?) is practically impossible in this VERY hard local limestone (maybe drill and shoot?---nah). If contractor could find the mortar joints behind the plaster (stucco made of PORTLAND and sand) he maybe could step flash, but man!, talk about man-hours and expense! I'm looking for the least cost possible, cause it's an all-volunteer library going for a small local grant. Makes me feel like a piker, but it's fact.
The least costly method will more likely than not lead to failure and water intusion .
Sure-if you just slap flashing up and caulk, but I'm hoping someone can point me to a LESS costly/invasive process than the reglet (new term for me) parallel to the roofline.
I'm hoping someone can point me to a LESS costly/invasive process than the reglet
For my next trick, I'm gonna pull a rabbit out of my hat................
View Imagecopper p0rn
I've never seen a rock or stucco that phased (fazed?) a diamond wheel in an angle grinder, and I've done scores of yards of that in all kinds of rock. You only need to go about 1/2" deep. Zippty zing.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
Edited 10/18/2009 7:42 pm ET by Sphere
Why would it be hard? Limestone is not considered a hard rock. I can't imagine it taking long with a diamond blade in a grinder.
You and Sphere both talk about diamond blades, which is what most of the posters my search here turned up. I've never used a diamond blade in a hand-held-- just in walk-behinds, so I'm willing to try. But guys, you aint never worked with Coleman County Limestone. Generically it may not be in the granite class, but it's shut down many diggers, including a multi-million dollar tunneling machine from England. They folded it up and went back so it was literally back to the old drill and shoot.
So, is it the considered opinion of my fellow craftsmen here that we should try the diamond wheel in a four-inch grinder to create a reglet?
You need to get a grip on reality and get off your high horse. The limestone around Brownwood is no different than the limestone around San Antonio, or any place else in the country, and I have cut more lomestone than I care to admit with a 4" grinder and a diamond bladfe. makes a hell of a mess, but cuts like butter. That old stucco is going to cut just as easily. Quit trying to impress us with your (not) unique situation and just go cut the damn thing.
Someone mentioned using an old beater circ saw. Go to Lowes and buy a $49 saw and a $15 diamond blade, snap a chalk line, and start cutting. Wear a dust mask. You could have been done by now."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So, um, how do you really feel?
:)
I lived in Texas for 29 years, so I know the attitude, and sometimes I get real tired of the braggadio and chest thumping. he was given reasonable answers several times, and he would not accept it. He was looking for the miracle cure cuz his situation was different."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Eddie, I'm surprised at you. The guy came to us for help, and is working as a volunteer. You coulda cut the guy some slack and let him in on a few trade techniques; who's it gonna hurt?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I was going to suggest Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN) detonating cord to weaken the limestone before detonating serial charges of C4 to create a channel for the flashing.
My deepest apologizies. "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Don't forget, West Texas doesn't see enough rain to worry about flashings anyways most of the time, but when it does rain, it goes sideways and will blow right thru any normal flashing;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Sounds like a good reason to have abnormal flashing.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
now yur gonna tell us there's a trench coat involved here some how....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I figure all the weird people are in Texas, and I hardly ever go there, so fine with me.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
the strange news column is dominated by folks from Texas...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
You need to read the weird news without noticing where the actual event happened and ask the following question:"Germany or Florida?"you'll be surprised how many times the answer will be one of the two.jose c.
--
"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
Actually he's in central texas, not west texas, but if he wants to stretch the definition a little and make himself sound better ...
Someone mentioned weird news coming from Texas ... I guess that doesn't include the balloon freak in Colo?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
others are intitled to have their own version of strange going ons...
but just the same nobody seems to be able to hold a candle to what leaks outta Texas...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
common now guys, texas is a darn nice place to liveWest Texas anyways
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought you would have said "Texas is a good place to be from"."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Whale now, I enjoyed my sojourn theyare.You know how folks like to say of some places, "It is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there"?I used to say "Texas is a nice place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit there"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
didn't say it wasn't....
just that it's the control center for a lot of strange stuff/people/happenings......
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
> but just the same nobody seems to be able to hold a candle to what leaks outta Texas...Of course not --- they'd catch fire!
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Be ccareful there - eddie leaked out of Texas too
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No one would have noticed if it had happened in Texas.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
"'All workers need to wear full breathing gear and HazMat suits at all times; that goes without saying."LOL, U just don't know what you are talking about!
the boys in West Texas breathe more dust in every spring than you do in your whole life up in the north country! Evolutionary adaptations have equipt them to handle this ut without so much as a cough
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
But you have no problem with the rest of the procedure?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
If he does it on a sumer day. the excess heat will never be noticed.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Would a $49 saw from walmart work?
For a few minutes. If you didn't want a straight cut. (But probably plenty fine for this duty.)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Hey, my first circ was a $19 Skil from Canal Hardware. It worked exactly like you said....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I read too fast, saw that as "Carnal Hardware"."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You've never experienced lust in a hardware store?
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Yes, use the grinder and diamond wheel. a guide like a 1x6 laid against the wall will help you keep a straight cut parallel to the roof.You know marble is a hardened compressed limestone? It uts like butter with a diamond wheel - well, almost like.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Have you ever tried cutting butter with a diamond wheel? Makes a real mess!
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
no but I once cut a cake in west Texas with one. Those cooks are tough down there, having been raised on rattlesnakes and pinto beans
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This isn't a suggestion per se, so much as to just get the juices flowing with regard to "thinking outside the box" (so be merciful, folks):
Have you considered skinning that one side of the rock building with something, so that you have something to place your flashing behind? I'm thinking maybe HardiePanel, stuccoed to match the existing.
That's kind of what I was going at with overlaying the existing plaster. But this building is 70 feet long and 18 feet tall ABOVE my existing building----soooo we're back to that old expense thing as far as the hardie board idea.
I’m with Sphere -- this is done all of the time, and limestone is pretty soft as stone goes.
But I like beater circular saws for these cuts -- their tables make handy guides for straight cuts a nice distance above the roof, and it’s easier to set the 1/2” depth-of-cut, so I find them to be the best tool for the job on a long roof slope like yours. On a chimney, a mini-grinder is easier to reverse, cut upside-down with, etc.
If you can find a saw whose base extends out past the motor housing, it’s a no-brainer -- run the saw directly off of the roof to achieve a groove about 5’-6’ above the roof surface. Otherwise, a strip of wood set on the roof, or tacked to the wall, will help guide the saw.
Used tools abound these days, but even if you’re buying brand new, you should be able to buy both the saw and the blade for well under $200. Throw in a few extra bucks for goggles, earmuffs, and a dust mask, and you’re good to go.
Since I take it your labor is pro bono, that makes for a pretty cheap bottom line.
AitchKay
I've been cutting limestone all day today and what Sphere said about diamond blades is correct. And while Oolitic (Indiana) limestone gets harder with age (but not THAT much harder) other limestones don't.
And I've used a diamond blade on an angle grinder to cut our local Jurassic diabase rock, which is waaaay harder than just about anything else.
Jeff
My understanding was that exposure to oxygen will cause limestone to harden - that it is very easy to work with when first quarried, b ut after a couple hundred years it stiffens up considerable. No person experience over a timespan, but that came from some arheology tidbit from the Middle East
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hello?
Tinck, Tinck, tinck You still there?
Have you considered therapy?
It might be necessary after this.
I 'tink' we scared the poor bastid off. According to his OP, he's been outta the trades for 20 years, but has been reading FHB for all that time.
If he thought we'd be like what he's seen in the mag in the last little while, he's probably still shaking his head in disbelief.
Either that, or he's drilling seats for nano-nukes in that limestone....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Good evening all you friendly fellow posters. I went to bed too early last night. Just got in from work to find superficial banality, personal attacks and general Texas-bashing. Didn't really expect all this from a FH discussion, and since I'm only 62 years old, I don't need it. So this is two posts: first and last. Thanks to you guys that offered help. You others can piss up a rope
shucks, the Texans I knew had a sense of humour
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yup, I like ya already. PS
No easy way to flash stone.