Does anyone make a flat flex wire for use at home? This would be for surface mounting and would carry 115 VAC. I’d like to avoid surface-mounted conduit, even the decorative type, if I can. It’s a short run but I’d like it to look better (be more discrete) than conduit.
If I converted to low voltage AC or low voltage DC, the current goes up pretty high (~10X), so the 115 VAC seems like the better choice for power transmission.
15A @115VAC = 1725W
1725 W/ 12V = 144 A
That 150A figure is just too high to justify using the lower voltage, even for short runs. There’s the issue of fusing the circuit and also just internal heating from the 150 A.
Replies
Not sure what you're trying to do, but it sounds a bit scary the way to speak of converting to DC and back.
As for the flex, there is the everyday armored cable sometimes known as BX or Type AC. You can get it in 14-2 or 12-2 depending on current requirements. It's not exactly pretty though, so I doubt if it looks better than the decorative conduit solution.
There's nothing in the US that you'll find "listed" for general use fitting that description. In Europe (at least in some countries) they have at least some nice looking round wire that can be surface mounted.
I did cheat and run round appliance cord for exposed lights on our deck, but it wouldn't pass inspection.
http://www.flatwireready.com/
gfretwell,
That flatwire site is known to me and that is the exact type of product I am after. If you check their "Electrical" web page, you will read that they have applied for UL listing but do not yet have it.
I was wondering if any other maker has already made it to market with a UL listed product. I use these flat flex cables to transmit power in my work life but wanted to know if a commercial product was available for use in my home.
I mentioned going to low voltage and/or low voltage DC because I can get low voltage track lighting. I just don't think it is wise to transmit so much power (~1500 W/150 A) at low voltage, DC or otherwise.
Kapton-insulated copper foil (in any width you want) is available on a custom basis. Kapton insulation is good for about 5,000 V/mil, so a 2 mil thick Kapton insulator (0.002" thick) would hold off about 10,000 V. For home use at 115V, I think there are issues regarding future homeowners ignorant of the product. It would be bad news to drive nails through your power wires. Some sort of armour plate over the traces might be required or be prudent.
Keep in mind that there are various ways to conceal wiring, such as running it in baseboards or chair rail. Some of these techniques are fully legal, while others stretch the code a bit or are frowned upon, but maybe worth considering for limited cases.
OK, let's back up a sec here...
What exactly are you trying to power, and why can't you run a normal extension cord, or put in a new outlet?
I would just bite the bullet and do the job properly. Even if 120 volt flat wire was available I would never use it. I would rather staple an extension cord to the wall than have hidden wires on the surface.
+1 for doing it properly. Surface mount conduit is barely noticeable once painted. Pulling off the baseboard and cutting a slot also works well. Why leave a time bomb that could be a life or fire hazard? Or get noticed by the home inspector when you try to sell the place? Seems like way too much risk.
I live in Chicago, where the code says every bit of 120 VAC must be in conduit or armored cable. What you propose would be a big 'red flag' on inspection.
Good luck.
>>>I live in Chicago, where
>>>I live in Chicago, where the code says every bit of 120 VAC must be in conduit or armored cable. What you propose would be a big 'red flag' on inspection.
Really? No NMD anywhere?
re: "Really? No NMD
re: "Really? No NMD anywhere?"
Nope. Chicago's building code is designed to support the union electrician. Until Harold Washington became mayor, all low voltage was also supposed to be in conduit, along with any antenna or cable TV lines.
Of course, this was downright silly, and often impossible; which led to the inspectors issuing a 'dead president variance'. So lucrative is the position, I have heard tales of folks paying many thousands in bribes to become a building inspector (after you first have a huge chunk of clout to vouch for you). Most expected to make up the cost of the bribe in the first year of 'employment'.
While things have improved, things are still 'unique' in Chitown.
MarkH, I agree with this 100%.
I do not intend to kluge anything here. However, if there is a UL-approved, NEC-approved "system" for flat flex, I want to evaluate that system relative to my needs.
If you go to the web site linked to above, you will see that flatlflex is NEC-approved for 115VAC. The company does not yet have UL Labs approval, so their particular product is not yet on the market. Also note, they do already have 115 VAC lighting fixtures with flat flex wiring on the market but the wife wants track lighting, which they do not yet offer.
I think a "nail shield" is more than just prudent. A sheet of galvanized steel over the flat conductors would make them nail-proof and would be an obvious tip off to future owners that there is something special, something worth protecting beneath the sheet metal.
A sheet of galvanized steel over the flat conductors would make them nail-proof
You need more than a thin sheet of galv -- there have been pictures posted here of nails driven through some pretty thick sheet metal, including the beafy nail plates that are supposed to protect wiring.
In fact, the best protection that wiring has from nails is the ability to move a bit, so it can be shoved aside when a nail comes through.
I have plans for surface-mounted electrical outlets on the walls in the new sunroom (enclosed patio). As an after-thought, the wife and daughter say they want track lighting, too. I want a way to get power up the wall and across the ceiling to get out to the tracks.
Running conduit was my first thought but it would look a bit more "industrial" than the style of the room. So, I looked around and rediscovered Panduit metal raceway products. I was wondering if there is an even more discrete way than Panduit to get the power up there.
I think the surface mount would be a much better way of doing that. It will quickly fade to the background.
Why can't you fish the wires through the walls?