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Discussion Forum

Flawed Pennsylvania Contractors Law

Jake0358 | Posted in Business on June 23, 2009 06:37am

Contractors in PA: Your home address will be public information!

Short overview:
New Pa. law – Contractors have to be registered with the state.
– If no business address then it requires disclosure of your home address

Response: Contact your state Representative and Senator and complain.
Find them at: www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/find.cfm

Why: What about the security of your family, home, tools, right to privacy, etc.?

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Replies

  1. gb93433 | Jun 23, 2009 07:03pm | #1

    Mine has been posted since 1982 in CA. It has never been a problem. In all cases I have received some mail that has been welcomed that pertains to my business.

  2. Hiker | Jun 23, 2009 07:10pm | #2

    Your address is already public information-white pages.  What is wrong with having an address to correspond to a business?  Is there something to hide. 

    I usually invite most of clients to a semiannual party at my house to thank them for referrals.  They know where I live.

    Bruce

  3. MikeSmith | Jun 23, 2009 07:28pm | #3

    that ain't the only thing wrong with that law....

    don't you have a very strong  builder's lobby ?

    this is what happens when states don't have licensing or registration... they get both  licensing AND stupid counter-productive  consumer legislation

    do you belong to a homebuilder's association ?.... or a remodeler's association ?

    Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
  4. woodturner9 | Jun 23, 2009 07:39pm | #4

    Contractors in PA: Your home address will be public information!

    As a homeowner in PA who hires contractors, I have to say I think the licensing requirement is a good thing.  I really think it will help cut down on the many, many scams that are currently rampant in PA.

    I understand the concern over home address, even though it is already public record and is easy for anyone to find.  If you are using your home as your business address, you are already at risk in a lot of ways.  The person hiring the contractor has a legitimate need to obtain a physical address where some assets are stored, to provide recourse in case things go awry or the contractor turns out to be "shady".

    The better solution would be to have a business address.  If you are using your home address as your business address, your home is already at risk.  If you keep your business separate from your home and personal life, you gain some legal protections.

    1. KFC | Jun 23, 2009 08:17pm | #5

      That law also makes any cost plus or t&m work (including changes) illegal, iirc.

      Seriously misguided.  I can understand consumer protection, but to flat out ban any t&m work is stupid.

      k

      1. User avater
        Dreamcatcher | Jun 23, 2009 08:58pm | #6

        I don't care a bit about having address posted, mine is and no problems.But to ban T&M is ridiculous and unfair. On some difficult to discern remodels and/or working with indecisive clients I often have to make half the project T&M. For the most part, it's very cost effective for the client to choose T&M as it allows me to take my time on the details without having to bid to much excess to cover unexpected issues.I am generally disgusted with the state of contracting/carpentry regulation right now and unfortunately I only see it getting worse. oh well, I'll be retired in just 30 more years anyway! :-3DC

        1. brownbagg | Jun 23, 2009 09:08pm | #7

          here in mississipi there was a problem after the hurricane of contractor working out of truck with cell phone. they take your deposit and leave, no way to track them down. so any address be nice. as of date 217 contractors been put in jail for not doing the work.

          1. User avater
            Dreamcatcher | Jun 23, 2009 10:27pm | #12

            I have a low tolerance for ignorance. Whenever I hear about someone loosing money to a scam I just shake my head in shame on those who got took (not that I am a proponent of conning someone out of their life savings but at least that usually takes some intelligence).In the case you describe, shame on all involved, glad to hear they got some behind bars though.I would [seriously] have a hard time taking a deposit from someone who blindly wrote me a check before I did any work. I only take deposits on design work, subcontracting, permits, and materials anyway. Otherwise, I will do whatever it takes to prove who I am and what quality standards I have before taking payment.DC....nothing to hide here.

        2. KFC | Jun 23, 2009 09:21pm | #8

          Yup.  I do almost all my work t&m.  It costs what it costs. 

          I know plenty of folks have issues with t&m, and they're free to work or hire at a fixed cost.  Whatever works.

          But to flat out ban all cost plus or t&m is ri-farging-diculous.  Even the guys I know who swear by fixed cost bids still do most of their changes at a t&m rate. 

          k

      2. smslaw | Jun 23, 2009 09:21pm | #9

        I can understand consumer protection, but to flat out ban any t&m work is stupid.

        The MA home improvement law has similar provisions. It's stupid on a number of levels, as though some non-contractor business people and some clueless consumer advocates got together to fix a problem neither understood.  All contracts must be fixed price. All contracts require a provision that disputes be submitted to arbitration if the HO wants it, but then the resulting decision isn't binding on anyone.

        I did an arbitration several months ago for a clueless HO against an equally clueless contractor. It was decided by an even more clueless architect/arbitrator who ruled in favor of my client. The contractor got a lawyer, appealed, as he had a right to do, and we tried the case again, this time in court. We won again, for the most part, but it was a huge waste of time, money and court resources.

        1. MikeSmith | Jun 23, 2009 09:45pm | #10

          JLC , this  month, has  an  excellent  2  page  article  on  how   to  bullet-proof your contract  to  comply  with  the Pennsylvania  lawMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          1. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jun 23, 2009 10:21pm | #11

            FWIW, Pennsylvania has had a "theft of services" law, written to protect small contractors, for many years. 

            I used to hand a copy of it, with a smile, to anyone I did business with in PA, GC's and HO's, just before signing an agreement.

            I worked for some questionable people in PA but never got stiffed. Good law.

          2. Jake0358 | Jun 23, 2009 10:47pm | #14

            Mike,

            Where can I find a copy of it? Can you post an attachmen of what you hand out?

            Thanks

          3. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jun 23, 2009 10:56pm | #16

            Jake,

            I'm sorry to say that I don't have a copy of it on hand.  I haven't done business in PA for many years, but it should be available, somewhere on PA's web site. 

            There are several PA contractors, here on BT, who should have it too. 

            BTW, my name's Peter.  Or HVC here.

          4. User avater
            Mongo | Jun 24, 2009 12:14am | #18

            If you're looking for the JLC article, it's available online.http://www.jlconline.com

            Edited 6/23/2009 5:15 pm ET by Mongo

          5. Jake0358 | Jun 23, 2009 10:46pm | #13

            Mike,

            Thanks, I'll look at the article.

    2. unTreatedwood | Jun 24, 2009 10:05pm | #27

      do you honestly think this will solve the "perceived" problems? I seriously doubt it. Most of these regulations have consequences that are never intended. The restrictions on this one will not solve the "scam" problem, as you refer to it. I moved to PA 4 years ago. i've been called in over and over to fix messes others have left. I don't think this will correct that by any stretch. All it does is allow the state to get its "fair share". That's it. Mark my words.
      At its most basic level, capitalism offers people the freedom to choose where they work and what they do … the dignity that comes with profiting from their talent and hard work. … The free-market system also provides the incentives that lead to prosperity -- the incentive to work, to innovate, to save and invest wisely, and to create jobs for others.” -President George W. Bush

      In other words, free-market capitalism is the best path to prosperity.

  5. Oak River Mike | Jun 23, 2009 10:48pm | #15

    Heck, my whole life history is online thanks to the State of Florida.  My resume is even posted on the state web site.

    I guess it could be harmful but honestly criminals had that information long before it ever became public anyhow.

    1. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jun 23, 2009 11:00pm | #17

      Heck, my whole life history is online thanks to the State of Florida.

      You too huh?  Whad dhey get you for, Bubba? 

       

  6. runnerguy | Jun 24, 2009 12:52am | #19

    Home address is easy to find anyway. I recently had a problem with a subcontractor's second in command. Didn't want a letter going to the office (fearing it might wind up on the second in commands desk and from there into the trash) so I looked up the head honcho's home address and sent a letter there.

    Very easy. And very positive results too!!

    Runnerguy

    1. User avater
      PaulBinCT | Jun 24, 2009 01:13am | #20

      Maybe it's me but I just don't see the big issue.  Seems like a stretch to think some low level criminal is going to research your home address online and then knock off your truck while it's parked in your driveway.  I'd be much more worried about other easier ways to get ripped off...PaulB

      http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com

      http://www.finecontracting.com

      1. sledgehammer | Jun 24, 2009 03:48am | #21

        I work in northern Maryland, a few miles from the PA line. We have needed licenses for ever, with all personal information available to everyone. It has never been a problem for me as I run a legit operation and have nothing to hide.... and as an added bonus the jackleggs from PA now have no where to hide.

  7. robert | Jun 24, 2009 03:54am | #22

    PO Box?

    I'm not against licensing........This place was like the wild west of building when I bought my first house.

    But the state has lost it's collective mind in the last few years and none of the Homebuilders and/or remodelers associations have done anything to  help you guys.

    I think it's because the state was so regionalized before that they never bothered to coordinate much on a state level.

    1. JeffinPA | Jun 24, 2009 05:18am | #23

      I welcome the law.

      It is far from perfect but there will be quite a few "contractors" who will fly under the radar and the registration might add a little credibility to some of us.

      Oh, and I have been giving out my home address for years.  If someone wants to find me, come on by.

      Oh, and by the way, by registering with the state and paying the $50, the townships can't require us to register in the township anymore, which probably costs me about $2,000 per year ($50-$75 in most of the townships I work in)

      Some of the townships will try to strong arm contractors into paying the annual fees, but the State says it is not enforceable.

      Yippee. 

       

      1. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jun 24, 2009 01:01pm | #24

        Jeff,

        I mentioned the "theft of services" law in PA, earlier in this thread, and was asked to provide a copy.  Can you attach a file for that, or provide a link or even the state regulation numbers?

        I agree that registering with the state is a good idea.  When I worked in eastern PA, during slow times in NY State and the region, I was surprised at the framing crews who underbid me, when I was already down to the nub. 

        The ones I met were back woods family members and their neighbors, guys who would jack deer or poach, as their main winter food source.  Not great carpenters but passable.  Certainly unlicensed as contractors.

        As there are lots of rugged mountains in PA, I suppose that makes sense for families who have lived that way for generations.  Same as parts of the Appalachian mountains and other places in the eastern U.S.

        Edited 6/24/2009 6:17 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter

        1. JeffinPA | Jun 24, 2009 01:15pm | #25

          I've never run across it before.

          I read your comments and plan on researching but was unaware till now.

          Thank goodness I have not had to mess with any of that stuff before!!

           

           

          1. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Jun 24, 2009 01:33pm | #26

            I met a PA sub who told me about that law and gave me a copy of it, suggesting that I put it to good use.  I did and it was worth it's weight in gold to me. 

            I wished, at the time, that New Jersey had a similar law.  When it looked like I might get stiffed there, I had to mention my friend and neighor who was a member of a well known crime family.  That worked well too, but it wasn't my perferred way of collecting payments.

            Edited 6/24/2009 6:40 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter

          2. JeffinPA | Jun 26, 2009 04:01am | #29

            I was in So Jersey for 8 years.  Did not love it.

            Worked for corp america then.  it was ok but I am a pennsy boy and like the left side of the river.

             

            I'm gonna research this and see what I can find.

  8. Dave45 | Jun 25, 2009 12:54am | #28

    I'm not all that thrilled about it, but my home address has been in the CA Dep't. of Consumers Affairs data base since I got my PE license in '81, and has been in the GC database since I got the GC license in '04.

    Except for a bit more junk mail, it's never been a hassle.

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