On a given set of plans; these in particular are kitchen and bath plans, how closely should the floor plan and the views resemble each other especially in reference to scaled dimensions.
These are hand drawn, not CAD.
Given one set of plans with numerous dicrepancies from view to floor, what DO you rely on?
If the floor plan showed something a bit wacky or odd, would you go to the view and scale it?
Eric
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I only use the elevation drawings as a pt of reference. Often on computer generated floorplan layouts, a base cab gets "covered" by an upper's number, eliminating the code, but not the line drawing. I realize yours are hand drawn, but I would still not scale off of nor take for gospel any elevation drawing. I take the floor plan on all prints as the real deal.
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Repeat after me .... never, ever, scale off a drawing. Always use written dimensions.
I use the plan view for wall dimensions and general layout, and elevations for cabinet specifics. I figure the plan view shows that there are cabinets in a certain location, and the arhy took extra time to draw the elevation details, so they take precedence.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Stay tuned for part 2 of this.
I'm not sure how best to do it but I will post shots of the "plans".
Elevations that don't add up and differ from one side of the room to the other.
Hence the inquiry as to using the elevations as a reference.
If they're drawn correctly, elevations should be true .
And I guess that is what I was referring to as the drawings; the elevations.
EricIt's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
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Yeah, you have a real-world problem. If the dims don't add, and there are discrepancies, then you need to ask for direction from the plan maker and/or the HO.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I think all of the input I read is good.
I would carefully detail & list the areas that are in conflict, or unclear. I would then arrange a meeting with the HO, point out the problems and determine what they expected in these areas. "Redline" the plans and then go to the designer and ask for elimination of the conflicts, and further clarity.
If it gets complex, and / or the conflicts are major, I would require the HO sign off on the revisied plans.
Great things can come from problems like this as follows:
I was asked to bid on an 11,600 SF home. My superintendent and I reviewed the plans and found numerous errors, ommisions and need for detal. We arranged a meeting with the HO and architect. We had three legal size pages of notes related to the plan problems.
My super and I confronted the architect with our observances. He admitted the porblems were real and did not write us off as a couple uneducated ex-framer wannabe builders (probably a good description 15 years ago). Our HO sat silent in observation as the 3 hour meeting took place.
We were awarded the $1.5 million dollar job in the architect's parking lot after the meeting, and the HO then treated us to a steak lunch. The HO told me that the other builder's bid was lower, but after seeing my knowledge and experience in the meeting with the architect, he was sure I was his preferred choice. we built the home, and I am still amazed at the fine job we did. Glory to god.
I plan to post some pictures of this home on my website, as soon as my webmaster clears his schedule for me. Check us out at http://www.brotherscustomworks.com. The site is a bit dated with updated info, a picture gallery and more improvements to come.
The man who drew the plans usually has his ph. # on the plans for a reason. Call him, and leave it in his lap. I'd make an itemized list of all known discrepancies, and give 'em to him all at once. Tell him you need a decision ASAP to facilitate job progress, those guys are usually pretty accomodating when its their screw-up causing the loggerhead. Anyhoo, we've all made goofs, nothing new there.
>Call him, and leave it in his lap. I'd make an itemized list of all known discrepancies, and give 'em to him all at once.Absolutely. It's what I'd want done if my plans showed discrepancies. And it's a note that's on my prints. Also, these are the calls that get priority...the closer someone is to actually building something, the higher the priority. I never want anything I've done or am doing to hold up a guy who's on the job site trying to work.
Plans typically take precedence. Elevations are mostly for determining heights, also to provide info too jumbled for the plans (i.e., a bathroom elevation showing finishes, a base cabinet, toilet paper holder, grab bar, mirror and window all along the same wall).
The larger the scale, the more precedence it has (legally). For a 1/8"=1'-0" plan, a 1/2"=1'-0" blow-up will take precedence, even if there's a discrepancy. And specifications, if there are any, trump the drawings.
Call the architect/designer first, though, for a discrepancy question. NOT the homeowner. The homeowner may not know the reasons behind the issues, and building something on their direction may screw up something else down the road (i.e., putting base cabs over floor vents, etc.).
NOT the homeowner.
The builder has a contract with the HO. There is no contractural connection between the builder and the architect/designer. If the designer is going to charge more money to resolve the issues, the HO needs to approve the cost. The HO must be in the discussion loop from the very beginning.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The HO must be in the discussion loop from the very beginning.
Bingo. Especially if, as is the case for most stuff like Eric's project, he is acting as his own GC.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
"The builder has a contract with the HO. There is no contractural connection between the builder and the architect/designer."I don't mean the HO should be left out of the loop. The client needs to be kept up with everything since it's their project. Nor do I think changes should not be made. Changes in a project are inevitable.Just meant that IF an architect/designer was involved, they should be consulted first about any drawing mistakes since they did the drawings. Then the HO should be notified. As other posts mentioned, put the responsibility back on the person who created the drawings. CloudHidden said that any question of a project in construction is usually answered (by him) quickly and without hesitation. This is the way it should be. And it takes the burden of responsibility off the contractor. If there's any problem that's not documented and the contractor changes it, even at the client's request, the contractor takes responsibility for it. Contacting the architect is just to CYA, not to bypass the HO.Sorry if this sounds like some kind of a turf war (not intended). We're going through something like this now. Church in town is in the middle of a major addition. One firm did the design and another did the CD's. The church asked us to do some renderings, but changes were made and the client didn't notify everybody involved. As a result, work is not proceeding as the client expected, and everybody's mad at everyone else over a simple misunderstanding. A phone call or two would have resolved the whole thing.
Nope, no turf war issue at all. Many designers will easily work with builders to answer questions. Some won't. But the designer has an obligation to work with the person who paid the fee.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
This may not help much with what you have now, but for something like a litchen, I place all views on the same sheet, so that the floor plan is in the middle, and each wall lines up with it. For instance, the cabinets and appliances on the left wall will appear on the left side of the paper from the floor plan with dimension lines lining up.
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This may not help much with what you have now, but for something like a litchen, I place all views on the same sheet, so that the floor plan is in the middle, and each wall lines up with it. For instance, the cabinets and appliances on the left wall will appear on the left side of the paper from the floor plan with dimension lines lining up.
Great idea! What I'm dealing with are dimensional disrepancies from plan to view along with cabinets list dimensions that don't jive with the cabinet sizes on the plan.
Someone is not checking her math. For instance, I see a window with a RO of 6'-3/8" and the plans and view both show differing overall dimensions written or scaled and only about 6' WITH trim included! Ooopps!
Leaving 6 ' between the wall cabs with a 6 ro in between is suicide, and the she forgets about the finshed 3/4" end panels eating up more space.
I'll be lucky if I'm creative enough to find 2" to trim.
EricIt's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
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