Can anyone tell me what is the proper way to refinish a 100 year old living room floor.
I have heard about a square refinishing sander and also a drum sander. What would be the big difference and without any experience with either I would like your help in knowing what to look for and how to get it done properly.
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Replies
What;s the goal? Sand it smooth and refinish, or just redo the finish?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I have a 100 year old house that has had the same rug over it for 40 years. Not sure yet what is under it so not quite sure yet how bad it is.
Also would I be cheaper just going with carpeting again? I'm looking into this before I start tearing things apart. Heard it is easier just to redo the finish. Am I right and what would your opinion be.
Just looking for whatever is best for the resale value is what I will do. Your opinion is welcome.
There's a world of difference between just redoing the finish and completely sanding/refinishing. If you're just removing the finish, the square sander/screener is ok. If it needs sanding, you have two options: drum sander or random-orbit sander. Since you've never done it before, I would stay away from the drum sander (or hire a pro). The random-orbit sander is much slower, but also carries much less risk of doing irreparable damage to the floor. Beware, though - with the random orbit sander you may need to remove the finish first anyway before sanding the flooring. I tried sanding without removing the finish, and just gummed up an incredible number of disks before finally chemically stripping the floor. Would probably depend on the type and age of the existing finish...
I guess a third option is a belt sander. I have a friend who did a dining room and large entry with a belt sander, and it came out great, but depends on your patience, skill with a belt sander, and whether or not your knees will hold up ;-)
Hire a pro! There are drum sanders that are a bit smaller than the normal drum sanders and are idiot proof pretty much as are those square ones but by the time all is said and done it pays to let the pro's do it.
Far as resale goes...wood floors have a lot going for them in nice shape.
Heres a cpl of floors in my own house I just sanded and finished myself.
325 years old.
Maybe try and do a 15 sq ft area with your belt sander and see how you like the look before you do the entire floor. You should be able to do that yourself from start to finish in an hour or so.
Good luck
a...
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Since you recommend hiring a pro did you do that? If so what did your average cost per room come out be?
I am trying to decide what would be cost effective -redo the floors or buy new carpeting?
Thanks
Yes, i did it myself but I've done a lot of floor sanding in the past so this was nothing new to me and I'm still far from a pro.
The drum sander and the edger come to about $80 a day. The paper came to about $200 and the poly came to about $80 for three coats.
My floors were a disaster so I needed the sanders for two full days and a LOT of sandpaper right down to a 24 grit in certain areas and that heavy grit paper is expensive.
For a floor with normal wear you should only need the sanders for a day for modest sized room and not nearly the amt of paper I used. You could probably get away with $50 or so of paper. You'd probably need two gallons of a good oil poly. You'll also need to screen after each coat of poly. Rather than going out and renting the buffing machine to screen the floors I used my palm sander with a screen on it.
A good pro would probably charge you approx $3 a sq ft with 3 coats of poly. Two is not enough so don't let anyone tell you it is!
All in all a nicely finsihed wood floor helps to sell a house in a big way IMO. Way more than carpet that the prospective buyer sees as something that they will definatly remove and change....or install wood?If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
How close to the wall without quarterround can you get with the square vibrating type of sander?
Right up tight but you need to do the entire floor with it otherwise if you just do the edges it'll come out with a different finish.
For the last pass if you do use it...use a screen to polish it up and get out all the scratches. Same screen you'd use for sanding sheetrock.If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
How close to the wall without quarterround can you get with the square vibrating type of sander?
Often, at least to the innermost layer of finish on the base. :-)
I have always paid $2 sq/ft for refinishing old floors. That is sanding it down until it is new looking and then having three coats of finish applied.There is no chance I would ever try and do it myself...and I do everything myself. ;)
andybuildz
I've gotta sand the floor of my billard room.. this is the first room I need to sand and it's also the furthest away from the entry so if things are a bit of a learning curve it won't matter as much...
Please don't say Hire a pro.. It's just not in my vocabulary or mind set.. (Plus I'm so cheap I squeak when I walk)...
Now the tough parts..
New floor so there are some differances in height between boards.. (dang and I thought I had the planner set at the same level) This floor is screwed and pegged. with pegs every 12 inches. Wide boards (up to 7 inches wide) have three screws per foot and narrow boards (2 inches) only have two. I chisled off the heads of all the pegs and even managed to get the grain in the right direction on most of them..
Yep! random width plank flooring.
Oh and it's black walnut! so it's softer than the usual white oak, hard maple..
Given all of that, would you reccommend I rent a drum sander? One of those DA sanders? where would you start with grit? Should I attempt to remove the differances between board thickness with a belt sander first? Use a finer sander to finish off everything?
The real kicker, I've got a house full of floors to do. about 3500 sq.ft off the top of my head will be hardwood . It's part time work for me, so I may only be able to spend an hour or two a night. Should I consider buying my own sander and then reselling it once the house is done?
A floor sanding set up is extremely expensive unless you can find the machines used somewhere and even still...
If you have that many floors to do I can't see how a pro can cost you much more than you doing it yourself. I would think he'd work out a good number for quantity but if not...
Renting the set up is about $100 a day for the drum sander and edger then the cost of the paper.
I start off with a 60 then go to an 80 and see where that leaves me at that point...then I'll usually go 100/120...its up to you.
You won't be able to rent sanders though if youre only working an hour or two a night/
Hey...hire a pro!
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
andybuildz,
It's really a matter of pride.. I've done virtually everything so far my self (and with the aide of novice helpers) The sole exception was pulling the power thru the meter and connecting it to the circuit breaker. Trust me I spent a long time on that one before I finally admitted defeat.. Darn power company!
I agree with larry, find one on ebay or craigslist, and buy a pile of sandpaper- I mean a lot, you'll go through it.
I think after you do a few floors, you'll decide that you'd rather do a lot at once anyway- with a good belt or drum sander, the sanding doesn't take that long, and everything in the house will get dusty whenever you do it, at least if you get an older one. It's nicer to make a bunch of dust at once, then get every speck of it out of the house, and finish a lot of floors at once.zak
"so it goes"
Zak,
Ahhh! Dust!
You guys simply do not understand dust.. I mean years and years of constant dust.. Run the planer for 6 to 8 hours and the dust that flies around coats everything!
the shaper, the jointer, the tablesaw,etc.
I bought one of those giant dust collecting systems and have an air cleaner and still the dust is so thick that a surface wiped clean one day later can have dust thick enough to write notes to my wife, and she reads them! Fourty thousand bd ft. of hardwoods and every piece needs to be planned and jointed and shaped etc.. Mortice and tenions need to be cut and other work needs to be done!
Trust me a little dust from sanding a floor is no big deal!
Andy called it right down the line.
But... If you are doing this yourself because you want to try and see if you can, I totally understand that and by all means have at it. I hope it really turns out well for you. It will if your careful and take your time. But...
If you are wanting to do this because you think you are going to save money. Forget it, you won't.
Floor sanding is very hard because you have to be very careful with a feather like touch and yet you are manning these big heavy machines. It is brutal on the back and I recomend wearing a back brace alon with a mask and hearing protection.
Then there's the finishing. It's not as brutal, but there are things you should know. Maybe you could get someone just to sand the floor for you and you could finish it. You might (I say might) save some $$
Good luck.
Jer,
Crazy as it sounds I would be willing to spend more to do it poorly myself than pay a pro to do a nice job.. I won't accept a poor job so I'll have to learn to do it well myself.. Hopefully I'll run into a pro in the next few days and pick up what points he may offer... As a Kid I used to run the floor buffer for my grandfather and got pretty handly with it so if the technique applies at all I should be able to quickly remember it..
So far other than part time help it's been all me..I did have to pay a pro to bring the power into the house thru the meter but that's been it.. (and if I could have figured out a way to avoid that I would)..
With varying plank thickness, you'll want to use a drum sander. The square pad sanders and the R/O will take forever.
I finally quit renting drum sanders when I found that the rentals were 8" wide, where as the pro finisher I now sub out to finish floors I've layed has a wider drum sander, has the needed experience with an edger and has a screener which was not available at the rental yard, but is really necessary for a fine job. AND, he keeps his equipment in excellent condition, a matter of risk when you take out a rental machine.
And to get a good finish, you have to maintain some real anal dust control in the building ALL THROUGH the finishing process. The off-gassing of each coat of finish will actually roil any dust on the walls, ceilings, countertops, handrails etc., and make getting a top notch finish really difficult unless every surface has been made dust free.
My finisher does all that and essentially "owns the house" until his work is complete.
He's worth every penny.
Like you, I built my entire house by myself EXCEPT for the rough plumbing which I turned over to a plumber friend who knocked it out in short order and passed inspections with no problems with a notoriously cranky inspector.
But I sanded and finished my own wood floors and, while they turned out OK, they're certainly not on a par with my timberframing and log joinery.
Don't let your pride over ride good sense....hire a pro finisher. (Are you also laying your own carpet?).
Notchman,
Carpet? What's that? some new fangled kind of floor covering? <G> I might use rugs in a few spots but I'm proud of my work I want everybody to notice it so most of my floors are either hardwood or marble.
Actually to the less is more crowd I'm a contraian. Hardwood floors, timber frames ever 4 feet, coffered ceilings of hardwood and darn little sheetrock!
Since you have done so much work to make all of your house the way you want yourself and aren't afraid of some more, why don't you hand plane the floors? Stanley made a '#74 Floor Plane' that was used for leveling wood floors. Blade was 2 5/8" wide in 10 1/2" sole, with a 45" handle attached to the cast iron plane so that the work could be done while standing. They aren't cheap if they can be found, but with a bit of skill and work you could make your own.
If you don't sand after the planing is done the floor will have a surface that no one is going to mistake for anything else. A scraper plane version could be made to take it to the next/final level if you prefer.
The advantages would be; no dust, no noise, and you'll get big arms that you're wife will like! (Unless she favors scrawny guys.)
QCInspector,
Well I could have gone the all hand tools route but I have nearly 5 years into the project thus far not counting the year I spent accumulating timbers and stickering them to dry. I have about 5 more to go before the house is fully finished..
This is with every single power tool I can find.. (including an electric pencil sharpener!) I can imagine doing it with hand tools it would change from a 10 year project to a never get done project.. In a few days I'll be 58 I had big arms and six pack abs when I was younger and ladies didn't seemed impressed so I doubt too many would be excited about a 58 year old guy with big arms..
I wonder how much work it would be to hand plane all 3500 bd ft of hardwood I'll be doing? How would that stanley work on the Burl I'm going to be laying?
Edited 7/8/2006 10:14 pm ET by frenchy
The title of this thread led me to believe that you wanted options.I gave you an option.You didn't say you wanted a good option. :-)I have no idea how long it would take to plane a floor to the finish stage, especially the 3500 square feet you have. When I saw the drawing of a #74 in a book years ago I became intrigued with the concept because I had never given any thought to the way floors were finished before sanders came on the scene. Makes you wonder how long they were planed from the kneeling position, before someone got the notion to stick them on a pole. Were they made of wood before Stanley made them in cast iron? Was he the first to put them on a long handle? Someday I may take a stab at it to satisfy my curiosity. But just a small room to start with, you understand. ;-)If all the floors are burl.......then...... never mind. ;-)
QCInspector,
I suspect that floors were planned sitting on a work bench and then installed back before sanders. Minor little differances in thickness could be kept to an absolute minimum with using one board as a standard and comparing each new board to that first boards thickness. then installing all of them.
The sharpening of tools back then was a constant and ongoing process so what we today would tolerate and just shove harder wouldn't have been acceptable back then. Today much sharpening is sent out, back then part of every apprentices job requirement was to keep the bosses tools sharp..
" Crazy as it sounds I would be willing to spend more to do it poorly myself than pay a pro to do a nice job.. I won't accept a poor job so I'll have to learn to do it well myself.. "
I know exactly how that is. I was that way for about 25 years, and I don't feel that way anymore. I know I can do it all because I have, and now I won't. It's only been in the last 5 years or so that I gave up on all that. In fact there are days that I could care less if I ever pick up a hammer or trowel ever again. Most of the time I feel good about what I do though.
You can't buy contentment, follow the heart.
check out ebay you can buy a belt type sander for around 650. i bought a 11x18 square pad sander from home depot that had been a rental for 650.the reason i want to own one is just like you i only want to run one a couple hours,not 14 hrs straight ,so that i only get charged 24 hours. i figure when i get rid of it someday it will still bring 4-500,so the cost of ownership will be a couple hundred dollars.larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.