Replies

1. 
   DanH | Feb 07, 2011 08:02pm | #1

   Some of the cheap stuff is quite strong, and some of the expensive stuff is fairly weak.  But just about any tile will hold up to normal foot traffic if properly installed over a sound substrate.  Voids under the tile or a substrate that flexes are the problems that cause cracks.  (Well, those plus dropping stuff on the tile.)

2. 
   Mongo | Feb 14, 2011 02:03pm | #2

   Usually size is the issue...

   Problems with cheap tile (Cheap not meaning inexpensive, cheap meaning...cheap!) is consistency in size and variation in pattern.

   A lot of the garbage I've seen is Marazzi and Florida Tile. Take a box of 12" tiles, stand the tiles on edge like a deck of cards...and I've seen dimensional variations approaching 3/16ths of an inch, and tiles off on the diagonal. Instead of being square, they have a slight "diamond" shape to them.

   Marazzi has gotten better in their production methods over the years, not too sure about Florida Tile.

   Other than that, much sold at the box stores, if it's rated as a certain class of tile, then there it is.

   If they have screened prints, take a close look at the pattern. You can somtimes see the actual screen lines in the glaze. Not terribly attractive in my opinion.

   Also if it's a patterned tile either in texture or print, some less expensive tiles might only have 5 or 6 variations, so the repetitive print or textural pattern stands out when you look at a floor in its entirety. Better lines of tile might have a dozen or more patterns.

1. 
   DanH | Feb 15, 2011 07:56am | #4

   It's been my experience that you see the largest size variation on expensive "artisan" tile.  Some of the really cheap stuff is dead-on.

1. 
   Mongo | Feb 15, 2011 01:39pm | #5

   I'd expect that...

   ...as most "artisan tile" is either hand made or designed to look handmade. But it's a good thing to point out when discussion consistency in tile size.

3. 
   trinker | Feb 15, 2011 06:47am | #3

   Tile

   Some of the Italian sounding tile at Lowes is grade 5 and very thick and cheap too.  Some of the tile at the big boxes is pretty good.  You may want to go to the other big box and check out Schluter Ditra underlayment too.  It is much easier to install than that cement board stuff and is certified under tiles over 3/4 inch subfloor.  Normally, you need 1-1/4 inch under the tile unless you use Ditra (assuming you don't have concrete floors which requires no underlayment).  If you choose to use Ditra, follow the instructions for installation.  In some cases you use modified mortar and some cases you use unmodified (cheap) mortar.  Ditra is a decoupling membrane and is supposed to help prevent cracking.  If your floors have a lot of flex you may still want to use 1/2 inch cement board, mortared and nailed (use roofing nails) to the subfloor to stiffen them up.  If they bounce like a trampoline, skip the tile.  If the floors are firm, use the Ditra even though the price will scare you.  In the end, you will be really glad you did because it is so easy to install.

1. 
   Mongo | Feb 15, 2011 01:54pm | #6

   Excellent points on Ditra...

   ...but I'll add an alternative opinion regarding the cement board:

   Cement board really adds nothing structurally. So if the floor has excess flex, address the flex issue; is it the joists or the underlayment? Or both? If it's the joists deflecting long their length, then sister to them or add a carrying beam underneath them. Or whatever.

   If it's an inadequate plywood subfloor that is flexing/deflecting between the properly spec'd joists, then add more structure, which is typically done with underlayment over the subfloor by adding another layer of plywood. OR as you wrote, use a membrane like Ditra. The only place I differ with you is that cement board is not considered structural so it will not really stiffen the floor. 

   Ditra can overcome some subfloor/underlayment thickness inadequacies when we look at subfloor/underlayment thicknesses from the traditional point-of-view, but Ditra really can't overcome joist flex issues. It can to a certain extent, but it's not spec'd out in that regard.

   Trinker is spot on in terms of installing cement board. Thinset it down and use fasteners. Too many people omit the thinset.

1. 
   trinker | Mar 01, 2011 02:23pm | #7

   Thanks Mongo

   You are absolutely correct that deflection needs to be addressed first.  In fact, you need to account for the additional weight of the tile.