I will be pouring the new slab in my existing basement later this winter and installing radiant heat for what will become my office. It will be about 450 sq ft.
The entry way from the below grade terrace will be covered with stone or ceramic tile, but I need a floor covering for the rest of the space. Acid staining the concrete is one option, but I’d really like hardwood. Is this advisable? Will the wood act too much as an insulator? Is an engineered wood floor (argh) a better choice than hardwood, in terms of heat transmission?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Edited 2/7/2007 5:01 pm by pino
Replies
How much heat will your basement require? If it's well insulated there is no limit to what you could use as flooring.
If you want hardwood, I'd be the first to say you should have it, but it has to be factored into the overall heating plan for the space.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Would hardwood have any appreciable effect on the efficiency of the radiant floor?
pino,
properly designed with adequite insulation under the slab there should be no real loss in warmth..
True. I've seen no end of speculation about how different floor coverings don't work over radiant, but if the perimeter of the building is well insulated, then you can even use carpet. It works.
Yes. But it's relatively small and easy to calculate.
Thanks to you and the others for your input.
Would hardwood have any appreciable effect on the efficiency of the radiant floor?
Efficiency, no. Effectiveness maybe. It could still efficiently heat the room, but not reach the temps you want.
The hardwood, and whatevery you choose to attach the hardwood to, have an insulating effect that won't matter unless you are stretching the design to the max or beyond what it's capable of.
We build basements with ICFs, which provide great insulation, so we don't typically have to put much thought into floor coverings since the btu demands are low.
Even if the radiant covered with hardwood wouldn't be able to keep up with the heating demands during the coldest periods, that doesn't mean you can't have hardwood, but there may be other heating methods needed to take up the slack. Radiant can also be run in walls or, less desireably, ceilings to produce enough btu's.
Good heating
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
less desirably?no one puts entertainment centers on the ceilings, and there is nearly no puncture risk, and output is very similar to wall.I'm curious as to why you would say ceiling is less desirable? It's a great method.-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
less desirably?
no one puts entertainment centers on the ceilings, and there is nearly no puncture risk, and output is very similar to wall.
I'm curious as to why you would say ceiling is less desirable? It's a great method.
I say it would be less desirable because we've actually installed ceiling radiant and while the room may be brought up to temp, having the slightly warmer temps higher in the room is simply less comfortable than if all the heat came from the floor. Ask 20 people and they would all agree.
As a suplimental source of heat paired with floor heat it's much more tollerable, but we would prefer to insulate well enough that the floor heats the entire space.
Good heating.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'd have to question how you are doing it. I have lots of ceiling heating happy people. Granted, floor is superior in most cases. But, in super low load situations when floors are cool anyway and ceilings are likewise not blazing hot... not much difference *in most cases*.You need to watch the water/surface temps though, for sure, especially with lower ceilings. Hot heads are not fun.-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
A buddy of mine did the exact same thing and has had no problem. He used real hardwood (oak or maple I believe).
You know there once was a guy named Pino who hung out at the tavern alot, but one day a couple of neo-cons took him out back and we never saw him again.....
edit: or you might look into this, it's all the rage now. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/08/garden/08dirt.html?hp&ex=1170910800&en=0a5bcd76589202de&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Edited 2/7/2007 9:46 pm ET by TGNY
i just had read that times article.
seems like an interesting high mantanance floor.
BUTif they use lime it is no 'greener' than concrete.
maybe lessgreen than wood, with its carbon
storing aspect.
espalir
"You know there once was a guy named Pino who hung out at the tavern alot, but one day a couple of neo-cons took him out back and we never saw him again....."I too have heard of the brave and noble "Pino", although we have never met in person. And while he may no longer frequent the Tavern, I hear tell that his spirit lives on in those he has touched, even more so in those he has pizzed off. Viva la Pino!
LOL. Did you have to request access to get out of the Tavern?If you need any specific info. on the radiant floor system, I can query my buddy about his.
I'd be curious what species of hardwood he chose and if that selection was in anyway based on radiant heat performance, wood movement, etc.I'm tending toward white oak, as it will likely be what I use on the raised panel wainscoting that will surround the space. It is early enough in the process that ?I'm open to suggestions.
Then get hardwood. Just A) design the tube layout for the R-value, B) choose very dimensionally stable wood and stay away from wide planks OR get engineered, and C) get a three-thermostat (water temp, room temp, ext temp) "setback" set up OR, even better, a four-thermostat setup (those plus thermo in floor to make sure flooring temp never gets above 85 deg.).
If you're going wood over slab radiant, a couple of things need to be done first.
If the slab is 60 days old or older turn heat on for about 72hours prior to wood installation.
Or if concrete is newer than that turn heat on for about 3 weeks prior to wood installation.
Have to get that moisture out of the concrete before the wood goes down or the moisture ends up in the wood----- not good unless you like expansion cracking cupping & bowing.
“Well, the election campaign in the country is picking up speed... All the candidates are talking about health care now. Don’t they realize that it’s their campaign speeches that makes us sick?” —Bob Hope
We have radiant heat in concrete in our home. Some of the flooring is a floating floor cork. I love this floor because its very comfortable and easy to maintain. Other sections of the floor are engineered wood floor which I have to admit I really dislike. I simply hate the sound of these floating wood floors as you walk on them (very different from the cork flooring). When the time comes for us to replace this flooring it will most certainly not be a floating engineered wood floor again ( unless something dramatic has changed in how these floors end up feeling underfoot). I guess I just like the feel of a very solid surface that does not have the hollow sound that happens with many floating floors. We have ceramics in other areas which are also great.
Why does the floating cork floor perform differently underfoot that the floating engineered hardwood floor? Please explain.
I am looking at an engineered floating hardwood floor-- nowadays-- you done't even use glue-- they 'snap' together.
Did your cork floor also 'snap' together?
Thanks very much-- Rick
Yes both of the flooring materials we have are the type that "snapped" together and neither the wood nor the cork are glued down. The construction of both flooring materials seems very similar however I think with the cork because it is a softer material and has more sound deadening characteristics than than the wood, it ends up behaving differently as you walk on it (the cork is in our kitchen and family room). It does not have the hollow sound that many other floating floors seem to have. I have had mine for about 2-3 years so perhaps there are newer ones which are perhaps heavier that would not have that hollow feel.
Obviously there are many people that buy these floors and dont mind the sound or feel. See if you can find an installation of the type of flooring you are considering and see if it is compatible with what you are looking for.
*oops edit* I do have one floating wood floor in the basement (oak) that snapped together while the wood floor on the main floor did require glue between the boards. Both are floating..and feel the same underfoot. No real difference between the two that I have noticed in terms of performance.
Edited 2/9/2007 2:30 pm ET by Kivi