Replies

1. 
   ANDYBUILD | Apr 13, 2004 10:15pm | #1

   Sorry

            I don't have the answer for you but as long as you started this thread I thought I'd also ask why are pneumatic guns better than my Portanailer?

   You still have to hit the gun with the hammer plus you have to deal with hoses.

   I never understood the reasoning.....maybe because I never used an air gun for floors.

   Be floored

                    andy

   "My life is my practice"

1. 
   JohnTN | Apr 13, 2004 10:38pm | #3

   Andy,

   My experience is limited to putting down a few hundered square feet using a Bostitch Mark III which is a pneumatic floor stapler.  It worked very well on the 1 1/2" red oak I was putting down.

   Even though you do still hit the nailer with a hammer, the hammer blow is pulling the board tight while the staple is driven pneumatically.  A brisk tap is all that is required, not a full hammer blow.

   Sort of like automotive power brakes.  Your foot still pushes the pedal down, but the vacuum assist does most of the work.

   For the original poster - I asked the cleat/staple question myself before starting my job.  In this area at least, all the floor guys use the Bostitch Mark III stapler.

   John

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 13, 2004 11:09pm | #4

   andy... i've owned a Porta-nailer since '75..two in fact   ( the first one is actually a Rockwell, newer one is teh successor... Porta-Nailer)

   .. finally bought a Bostich flooring stapler last year...

   hard to know where it is these days.. all my friends ( that own their own hand -powered floor nailers)  come and borrow it... i don't buy staples any more.. they give me boxes of them.. and i can buy SS staples too... like for Fir porch decks..

   you will not believe how much faster, easier, and BETTER your floors go with a  flooring stapler....

   wanna buy a couple Porta-nailers cheap ?  all rebuilt.. in their steel cases Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   ANDYBUILD | Apr 14, 2004 02:34pm | #5

   Mike

      Yeh

             I have two Porta nailers as well and what I hate most is how often they jam.

   Do the air ones jam as much?

   Thanks

           a"My life is my practice"

2. 
   WorkshopJon | Apr 14, 2004 08:36pm | #12

   "I'd also ask why are pneumatic guns better than my Portanailer?

   You still have to hit the gun with the hammer plus you have to deal with hoses."

   Andy,

   Never used one of those specifically nor ever seen one.  (only flooring I've put down was 5/16" plank with a small Bostitch specific to that application)..

   But, if you think of the physics behind it all, more energy imparted by the hammer to get the planks tight vs. driving the nail.

   Jon

1. 
   andybuildz | Apr 14, 2004 08:49pm | #13

   see ya next week jon.be ready to roof.........kidding....actually, you'll be my excuse to stop other than rain.

   aMy life is my passion!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   m2akita | Apr 15, 2004 06:14am | #14

   Found a used Bostitch MIIIFS (thats the pneumatic stapler) that Im gonna buy off a guy that doesnt want it any more ( got lucky on the timing).  Hopefully itll all work out.

   ANDY- Ive never used the manual nailers, but Ive heard the horror ( or aching shoulder stories) from number of people who have.  Next chance you get, you should try one out.  Better try out two so you can have one for your helper ( since your gonna buy him his own Max framer to use).  :)

   -m2akita

2. 
   steve | Apr 13, 2004 10:31pm | #2

   used both but i'm no flooring guy

   pneumatic is easier despite the hose, with the pneumatic nailer, the hammer just tightens the joint and air powers the nail and with a good gun, more reliable as far as misfires are concerned

   caulking is not a piece of trim

3. 
   BenA | Apr 14, 2004 03:26pm | #6

   Go with the MIIIFS ,Bostitch stapler. IMO the stapler will hold better (two legs compared to one clete) and also a little thiner , less chance of splitting wood. Good luck

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 14, 2004 03:57pm | #7

   i have the same one as ben... no , it doesn't jam... it is one sweet machine  and the floors come out BETTER than they  did with the Porta-nailerMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   ANDYBUILD | Apr 14, 2004 07:15pm | #9

   Mike,

            Thanks, I'll remember that the next time I do strip flooring.

   I think I spent more time unjamming that fricken Porta nailer than installing the actual floors.

   Presently this house will be covered in wide eastern white pine planks and face nailed.....so all I need right now is my Douglas.

   On the subjects of nail guns (not to steal this thread).

   I'm not sure if I mentioned to you that I ended up buying the Max nail gun for my perfection roof and sidewalls.

   After trying it out for a few hours I ordered a second one. Completely awesome and so light weight.....not to mention real purdy.

   Be rained out...ugh

                                  andy"My life is my practice"

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Apr 14, 2004 08:19pm | #10

   after telling you about the N64 at Quaker Lane for $300... i went back over and bought it... so now we have an N63C,  and (2) N64C...

   tomorrow is Bostich Day at my lumber yard... the factory reps  tune up all the bostich guns you bring in... also special deals..

    i'll pick up another N88RH with the metal connector nose (sweet ).. and maybe one of the new combo brad/staplersMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   NSFEddie | Apr 14, 2004 08:28pm | #11

   Speaking as an amateur weekend warrior,

    I used a Bostitch stapler and laid 800 sf of oak floor

    without any jams at all.

   E

2. 
   ANDYBUILD | Apr 15, 2004 03:04pm | #15

   Bought one Max loved it so much I bought another....so light its unreal...purdy too"My life is my practice"

4. 
   ed2 | Apr 14, 2004 05:18pm | #8

   bostitch pneumatic cleat nailer.... installed thousands sq ft wood flooring   i am the destroyer of forests    air power is the only way to go even w compressor and air lines involved    you concentrate on the floor install rather than beating yourself up w manual machine, better job when fatigue factors out

   demo only an individual board, staples are harder to remove than nails    across the field of the floor, neither is going to let go, be weak or noisier more than the other

   owned staplers since 1983, they sometimes break/often fracture the tongues. this can make succeeding courses harder to set, rarely have to dress them w chisel   you can adjust air lower for material being used which does help, but not when grain pattern inclined to break    doesn't occur w nails because of single point fastening

   staple will occasionally bend/break in jaw of gun, keep set allen wrenches around to loosen base and magazine to free up... doesn't occur w nailgun     both have to be rebuilt occasionally, parts for one teardown comes w new gun along w diagrams, not hard to rebuild either machine

   air guns are reliable, few drops oil at start and again mid-day.   try cat oil, a synthetic, guns run smoother    the jams i did have w staples were bad generic fasteners, haven't heard of this problem for awhile   repair guys told me same, and lack of oil, too high air pressure as other maintenance problems

   big help is to use swivel couplings and the new poly air lines, can't recall name   light and flexible, no weight to drag around      if using oil type compressor,  amsoil  and  red line oil  both have synthetic compressor oils, runs quieter in work space, doesn't thicken in winter    do compressor tank drain downs daily or even mid-day and keep water out of guns

   good tip-someone mentioned ss staples for exterior fir flooring     done this couple times, but seldom comes up as framers or deck guy usually does floor    can always rent or borrow stapler for this application

   for strong quiet floors, stagger end joints 8" course to course

5. 
   Piffin | Apr 15, 2004 03:13pm | #16

   after a day of pounding that powernailer, the hammer gets prettyheavy by about two oclock. I can run the same amt of flooring in a day as with the pneumatics but feel it more. Gotta get the cardiac workout occasionally somehow. The only jams I've ever had were from not striking hard enough.

   Mike, I always rented or subbed but I might be interested in buying one of those power nailers when I come down this summer. Omly use it once or twice a year but it'll make a good door stop meantime.

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   moltenmetal | Apr 15, 2004 06:07pm | #17

   My wife christened the manual cleat nailer as the "whack-F*CK machine".  What a bastard to use if you're not accurate and strong with the mallet!  As an amateur laying ~ 800 sq ft of red oak prefinished, I was on a good run if I delivered 5 cleats before I didn't quite hit the nailer hard enough with the mallet and didn't completely deliver the cleat.  Then it was out with the hammer and punch (if I was lucky) or the Dremel to saw the thing off (if I wasn't).  What a nuisance!

   Did an equal sq ftage of birch on the top floor with a rental Bostitch pneumatic stapler- half the effort and not a single jam.

1. 
   DustynLefty | Apr 15, 2004 08:24pm | #18

   I've got the Porta Nailer, bought it used from a rental place.  It was a lot of work for my first floor job and I eventually realized it was ok to swing the mallet with two hands and I didn't have to impress myself.  I didn't have a big problem with jams.

   Then I used a rental pneumatic for the next job.  An amazing difference, much easier.  It almost makes nailing flooring down fun, especially compared to the old way.

   Then I bought a very used Bostitch MIII floor stapler.  I'd read that cleats were better than staples, so I bought a conversion kit for about $100 and switched it around myself.  The cleats work well on standard oak, but still split some tongues on hard maple flooring.  I learned not to nail too close to the edge of the board, and to squirt a little wood glue in the tongue on the splits.

   My MIII is so old that it has a pull trigger in the base; DANGEROUS as there is no safety, but it lets me nail closer to the far wall when there isn't room to swing the hammer.  The nailer leaks a little and the pounding tends to loosen up the bolts holding down the shoe, but it still works fine.  Or at least that is what everybody who borrows it from me says (it just went out the door again on Monday).  I've got a replacement bag of O rings for when it gets too bad.

   Dusty and Lefty

1. 
   Piffin | Apr 16, 2004 02:51am | #21

   Dusty and Lefty

   LOL

   So you used two hands?

   Is the right one Dusty and the other one Lefty?

   or is Lefty Dusty too?

   ;) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   DustynLefty | Apr 16, 2004 05:54am | #22

   Hah!  No, I'm Dusty and my left hand is, uh, Lefty.  That can't be right.  Now I'm even more confused.  That means I'm Dusty, Lefty and Confused, especially this late at night.  But the cabinets are installed, the daughter has finished her math homework, the 1980 Volvo's driver's door is back on the car (a long story to go in a different thread maybe), and I'm about to put a bucket of assorted tools and parts away and feed the cats.

   DL&C

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 16, 2004 06:32am | #23

   Good night, Dusty, tell Lefty that he is All Right, except for when he is wrong, then he is Knot, you are still confused, and I hope the three of you got all your taxes paid!

   I was just thinking that an accountant's favorite bible verse must be "Let knot your right hand know what your left hand is doing"

   It sure couln't have been a carpenter's verse or we couldn't use a hammer and nails

   ;) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   toolinaround | Apr 17, 2004 06:58pm | #24

   Put me down for the Bostich air nailer, cleat.  LOVE IT!  One jam in probably 3,000sq ft of flooring.  (Bamboo).  I can install all day, and both arms are still the same length,as oppossed to when I've used manual porta-nailer.  When ever I wonder what my favorite tool is, I realize that it's the one I'm using at the time, so at this point, it is definatly my flooring nailer!  Beck

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 16, 2004 02:43am | #20

   I see why one could get frustrated over it. Sounds like you wife should have nick named it the Whack-diddle machine instaed of the "whack-F*CK machine" since you were only diddling with it.

   ;) 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   arrowpov | Apr 15, 2004 11:53pm | #19

   I have the porta-nails pneumatic nailer it has a face nailer shoe attachment, two minutes to change over. Much less effort to use than my regular porta- nailer. I bought the new pneumatic so the nails were the same for both nailers.