flooring nailers–pnuematic vs. manual
BrianDerr
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
considering the high price of renting, I was thinking of buying a flooring nailer (or stapler, maybe?). I’ve used the pnuematic ones and like them, and I have a good compressor. I’ve never used a manual one, but they are so much cheaper . . . and I don’t mind swinging a mallet. For those who are familiar with both, any strong preference? and any preference between nails and staples? Thanks.
Brian
Replies
pneumatic, pnuematic, pnuematic.
Older pros will argue that you get a tighter floor with a non pneumatic. I would not disagree. but it will be a handful for a full day of work.
You say you don't mind swinging a mallet but some things to think about are like up next to walls (parallel with the nailer). you really have to put some force into a manual nailer and can often lead to a mar on the wall or in a tight space. With a pnuematic, you can get away with a lighter pop in a tight space.
Also when nailing up close to a wall directly in front of you the pnumatic assist lets you run a couple courses closr to the wall, because you can choke up on the mallet and kind of hit the nailer with a downward angle and get real close to walls. Much closer that a manual nailer.
Nonpneumatics are fine IMHO for sanded in place floors. If you get a stress crack or a gouge no big deal. YOu will sand it out.
IMHO pnuematics are the only way to go for prefinished floring. You get less stress cracks and blemishes to the finish which is important because you are installing the finished product.
As far as brand I would go for quality if you will be using it alot. Bostitch, Portercable, portanails, my boss has a duofast. http://www.tools4flooring.com
I have spent the past week installing about 400 sq. ft. of prefinished. I don't do it that much so I chose a ramsond nailer off of amazon. It has worked flawlessly so far. http://www.amazon.com/RAMSOND-RMM4-HARDWOOD-FLOORING-PNEUMATIC/dp/B001JT64U6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_8?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1232648300&sr=8-8
I reveiwed it. I took a gamble but I am not sure about repair parts. I looked at the other imported nailers on amazon, and as I have said, I noticed significant similarities in the ramsond, the akuzuki, the hardcore tools and the porter cable to suspect that they come from the same factory.
Not telling you what to buy just letting you know my recent experience.
As to fasteners, I have been using cleats, and have no experience with staples. The ramsond will shoot both.
Don't forget a good 15 gauge finish nailer for blind nailing in tight spots and up against walls. It beats drilling and hand nailing. YOu still have to hand nail some, but not as much.
Hope this helps.
Webby
Edited 1/22/2009 1:24 pm ET by webby
Edited 1/22/2009 1:32 pm ET by webby
Edited 1/22/2009 1:34 pm ET by webby
There is a face nailer that shots the T nails. A little better hold down than finish nails, and you don't have to carry two types of nails around.OTOH, if you have a finish nailer anyway...
Yeah I know about the face nailer. It probably would hold better. My nailer shoots the L cleats. I try to blind nail through the tounge with the finish gun up near the wall and face nail it again if I have to.
I have been using the methods my boss uses. May be pro installers would do it differently but he hasn't got any complaints. I am up against the wall know so I will be handnailing tomorrow.Webby
Pneumatic.
If you are going to be using it a lot, then get a name brand. Bostitch gets good reviews, but others have their favorites.
If you are doing a DIY job or two, then there are usually two schools of thought.
Buy a higher quality tool and then resell at the end of the job. If you don't want to spend for new the first trip, you may be able to find someone in your area selling at the end of their job. You sell again after yours.
Or buy something cheap use it while you need it and then don't worry about resale. Harbor Freight is currently selling theirs for $100. Most of the off brands appear to be Bostitch knockoffs.
I got a HF one to install about 600 feet of 3/4 hickory this past year and it worked fine. I did get the extended warranty though. It uses bostitch staples.
whatever you decide just make sure you can get the fasteners locally and if you go cheap you might want to use brand name fasteners.
Edited 1/22/2009 5:23 pm ET by rvieceli
Brian posted this before, I have a Bostich, but harbor freight has this one, some here have purchased one and have had good results, worse case you send it back. It is dual staples or nails. I do buy H F's staples and have not had a problem with them.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=99640
Wallyo
I have a bostich pneumatic and my buddy, who bought a harborfreight, had to borrow it cause the HF jammed on every strip of nails.
Wonder if the staples work any better in the H F, but usually there pneumatic stuff is not too bad not meant for daily use, I have a small HF stapler have not had any problems. Could be he just got a bum one.Wallyo
I have the HF flooring stapler and it has never given me any problems with staples. I've used it a lot, and the only jam I ever had was once when I directly hit a nail in the subfloor. I can't speak for how well it would handle cleats.
I've only shot bostich staples with mine...
"I've never used a manual one,"
"and I don't mind swinging a mallet"
you may change your mind!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
As stated in another post, the manual nailer, I feel, gives a MUCH tighter floor. Gonna use it alot, you'll probably be happier with the air nailer. Plus your 15 gauge finish nailer, near walls or cabinets and I sometimes predrill holes and secure the flooring with trim head screws.
Brian,
I install hardwood floors occassionally (average one per year). I've always used a manual floor hammer. I've never justified the expense of a air hammer but have thought about it. You know how it is with always wanting to buy another tool. There is always a different one which has been at the top of the list. I have always liked my flooring hammer and often charge $10 a day for rental. You do need about 2 feet of swinging room so the need to use other tecniques in tight spots.
I'd buy either a new or used brand name unit off eBay, and sell it on eBay if I wasn't going to do flooring for a while.
If you get a decent deal, you can always sell it for what you have in it with a used one, and probably 80% if what you will spend if you buy a new one.
I dont mind a manual at all, they really arent bad for someone that doesnt do them all day everyday, cost wise it made no sense for me to spend the money on top of the line tool for flooring I do 2 times a year.
I bought my manual nailers from a rental yard, the wall nailer and, 3 manual blind nailers and a concrete blind nailer for $50 out the door, i couldnt pass that deal up.
Just like ceramic tile when I do more of it ill buy a kick #### wet saw, until then my grinder and a score and snap is all i need to look like a big boy. Woods favorite carpenter
You will hear compelling reasons for both on this forumn.
I have a manual bostich and free access to the air bostitch. I prefer the manual because we crank the tunes when we do floors and as I age I get a little jumpy when my compressor kicks on. When I can't swing a hammer for a floor it will be time to retire.
A related story. I was in the Crepot the other day and the dude in the apron tells me that the air nailer will result in a much tighter floor. I ansewered "Why don't you explain to me how that is possible, because I'm pretty sure they both use 2 inch l nails." He didn't know if he should #### or wind his watch.
Have a good day.
Wouldn't the air nailer be considerably faster?Seems to me the manual might require more, um... care in alignment... whereas the air nailer... bap - bap - bap.Just thought I'd interject that into the conversation...
Here's a strange angle on the discussion. I took Taekondoe with my boys so we could spend time together. I found the TKD interesting in that its a study of body mechanics. A good kick is a chous of muscle groups.....I'm getting to something..........I got a manuel nailer and found its not how hard you hit the nailer but how you hit the nailer. I found I could pound a nail to china if I used my hip twisting instead uf just my arm. You'll figure that out if you buy one. I can't imagine tripping over air hoses all the time
Go Cubbies
If you watch Nolan Ryan throw a fast ball, he uses every muscle
I have studied kung fu off and on for the last ten years and definately have done similar on the job experiments. Not the hip in particular, but you are right to some extent you do have to let the arm GO. I work on it with a framing hammer, usually, though not much framing lately. I'd like to take my daughter to kung fu someday--enjoy you taikwondo experience! Brian
Thanks all for the honest opinions. I think I can find something to agree with in each one. Brian
Until I used an air nailer, I was convinced the manual was better!Another plus for me with the air nailer, I can get tighter boards closer to the wall, with a lot less effort.http://www.tvwsolar.com
I went down to the lobby
To make a small call out.
A pretty dancing girl was there,
And she began to shout,
"Go on back to see the gypsy.
He can move you from the rear,
Drive you from your fear,
Bring you through the mirror.
He did it in Las Vegas,
And he can do it here."