Our copper piping system in our house is 32 years old. We believe we could increase our water pressure which seems to have decreased if we could flush out the inside of the pipes and clear out any calcium or other build-up, etc.
Could anyone suggest a method of doing this. We are on a private well with hard water and we use a water softener system.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Murr
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Replies
1) Do you know for a fact that your pipes have significant scale (mineral) build-up? Have you cut a pipe open for examination?
2) The water softener should be preventing scale. Is it functioning properly? Have you had your softened water tested for hardness?
3) Perhaps the reduced pressure is a supply problem. Is your pressure tank waterlogged? How old is the well pump?
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Hi Tim. Thanks for your questions.
1. No....not yet.
2. Water softener is working properly and we have had a hardness test that showed that our water is hard.
3. The well pump is 6 years old. We share with a neighbour and the pressure tank is in their basement. It is over 30 years old. I have a pressure tank that I am going to hook into the system along with a pressure gauge. That may alleviate our problem.
When I get it complete I will post the results.
Thanks again for your input. Your questions tell me I have to do some good investigating.
Murr
A pressure tank won't do anything for you as such.Now if the problem is that the pressure is too low when both of you are using water, but OK other times then a pressure tank with a CHECK VALVE can help.The pressure guage will be you best friend in help tell you what is goig on.But check to see if there is a sediment filter in the system, at either you house or theirs. It might need replacing.Also check the screens in your faucets.
I am interested in this topic as well. The last place I lived had copper pipe, and they were buried in the slab. The city had hard water - so bad that a whole house humidifier I set up gound to a halt from mineral built up after only a couple months.
The house also had a whole house filter that I replaced periodicly. When I did, I drained most of the lines via low faucets. After I repressurised the copper pipes, I had chunks of fine black and white gravel breaking loose and cloging nearly very fixture in the house. This would happen for about a month after changing out the system, but after a couple of times the system seemed to clean itself out.
I had asked an online plumbing board about using a low strength acid (like vinegar) to help clean out the pipes. There recommendation was to just repipe, I would only be risking causing pinhole leaks in my slab.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Paul, What type and brand of whole house filter do you have? Is it just for sediment or for other contaminents as well?Is the water pressure at the shower affected?Frankie
I've used both kinds of filters and noticed no difference other than cost. Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Yeah, but what brand(s)? I have not found a whole house unit that can keep up with demand - ie: 2 showers, 3 toilet flushes and washing dishes in the kitchen sink. Resevoir capacities are small and more importantly, the replenish time is long.I think I must be missing something. Has someone come up with a solution?Frankie
For less pressure drop across a whole-house filter, just get one of the large ones. These are about the size of a pool cartridge filter -- roughly twice the diameter of the standard filter. They have about four times the flow rate for a given pressure drop, and last quite a bit longer before needing replacement.
The brand I used was GE, but my house was smaller - only 1 shower. If pressure is a problem, you could simply connect two in parallel. This would eliminate having to find oddball big filters.
When you set them up, make sure you have the pipes on either side beefed up and atteched to a firm mount. Unscrewing a scaled on filtewr cover is a big pain, especially in confined spaces. I had to start lubing mine.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Any time you drain your water lines, you're apt to knock sediments loose. This usually occurs during the initial surges as the air is flushed from the lines. Shouldn't have anything to do with replacing the water filter per se, and it should be possible to replace the filter with a minimal amount of introduced air, if you have the right valve setup.A water filter won't prevent hard water deposits in the pipes or in the humidifier. A water softener will. Any humidifier on even softened hard water needs to be the self-purging type, however.
Copper pipe in a home that has continuously been using softened water shouldn't build up substantial hard-water deposits. The pipes can build up sediments of rust and silt, but usually not enough to cause any pressure reduction.
However, if there is somewhere even 6" of galvanized iron pipe, that can clog, and could be the culprit.
Beyond that, check that all valves are open, check strainers, and check that the softener resin hasn't worn out and gotten "tight".
What is your water pressure now? It's hard to figure out the problem without more information.
My house is 50 years old and I have recently opened up some pipe that I know is original. As some wise sage once said (probably on this list) "there ain't no stinkin' calcium or buildup on dem pipes" The galvanized drain pipes they put in are another story however. Dont think copper pipes attract that stuff...
"Don't think copper pipes attract that stuff... "
They can. I put a solar hot-water system on a POS mobile home in Western Massachussets. And we waited for the HWH to fill. And waited. And waited. Then investigated. The water service line was 1/2" soft copper tubing. And was lined with scale necking it down to an effective 1/8" or so. How they tolerated getting pissed on by the shower, etc, I don't know, but replacing it with new 3/4" fixed it. At least temporarily.
If I was going to try to clear those pipes in-situ, I'd buy a mess of Tang at Costco and mix up a pretty concentrated batch. Then run a garden hose from a sump pump in the bathtub to a cold-water hose bib (if an old, non-anti-siphon type) or laundry hose bib, etc. Turn on sump pump, turn on cold bathtub spigot so it keeps up. Let it run for an hour.
Then reposition the sump pump in each sink, etc. And run it for a while on each fixture (this will be providing lots of cleaning to the common trunk lines).
Easiest for the cold lines because of the smaller volumes involved. The hot lines would feed through the HWH, unless you can close it off and feed through a laundry spigot.
Yeah, it would be an all-day job, but mostly you'd be watching the tube or listening to the radio. And it would sure beat ripping into the walls to replace all the piping.
I'd use the Tang because 1) it is food-grade stuff, 2) citric acid is a weak acid but strongly enough to remove scale (great way to clean a dishwasher - put in tang instead of detergent once in a while), and 3) it is readily available "over-the-counter".
I would not, however, drink the resulting OJ. Yes it is high in vitamin C. And now it would be super-high in calcium (from the scale). But it also potentially have various heavy metals in it as well.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
That reminds me of what my grandfather used to say: You should never drink water, because look what it does on the inside of pipes. ;-)
-- J.S.
Check where the water main comes into the foundation. If its 30 years old, you probably have galv or copper. If the line coming in is galv, shut off the water and take a look at the fittings, especially if it is a 90 degree. If it is going to close in, it would there first.
We replace our water line due to a leak, the old was cement lined galv., the house was built in mid 1960's. The entire inside of the cement lined galv was like new but the 90 right inside the basement was a regular galv fitting and that was plugged 50%. The meter, and all the brass fitting were fine, nothing at all. When the new line was up and running the pressure was much better.
Like Hartmann suggested, a check valve would be beneficial as it would isolate your system from the other, allowing your new pressure tank to act only on your system, not both systems.
The check valve would also prevent contamination introduced at your end from being drawn back or syphoned into your neighbour's pipes, when the supply pressure is zero.
Are you completely at your neighbour's mercy, meaning if they need to shut their system, you're without water, or is there a bypass or some sort?
have you opened the bypass on the softner? problem could be in the softner.