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Discussion Forum

Foam guns?

JohnT8 | Posted in Tools for Home Building on June 20, 2005 07:18am

I seem to remember someone talking about using foam guns.  For projects bigger than canned foam, but smaller than a full-blown house foam job.

Anyone have a source or know what I need to search for?

jt8

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. — Sir Winston Churchill

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  1. gregb | Jun 20, 2005 08:58pm | #1

    Try Energy Federation. They should have what you need. Here's a link...

    http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=foam+gun&x=0&y=0

    1. JohnT8 | Jun 21, 2005 12:21am | #6

      greg, from your reply and csnow's, I'm thinking my foam education would start off with figuring out that there appear to be two different types of foaming gear:

      1. Gear for foaming cracks, around windows/doors, and adhesive (for underlay or drywall)

      2. Gear for foaming bays

      In my ignorance, I had not realized the same gear couldn't be applied to both techniques (just with different nozzles or some such).  That complicates the picture considerably.

      On type #1, I see several brands: Hilti, Dow, Pageris, etc.  Does anyone know if they all have the same threading on them?  So that you can use different brands of foam in any given gun, or do you need the Hilti gun for the Hilti foam, etc?

      On type #2, are you going to need hazmat gear in order to use it ?  I know the pro's are all geared up when they're spraying.jt8

      A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

      1. gregb | Jun 21, 2005 12:50am | #7

        John, to the best of my knowledge, the guns & cans are interchangeable. We have an Ilbruck gun & a Pageris gun, & they, as well as one of our guys Hilti gun all work fine on any can we've used.As one poster mentioned, you don't need an expensive setup, & DO keep your guns clean. We've found that if we leave the can attached to the gun, it's less messy & cumbersome than cleaning the gun every day. We've left cans attached for a week or more with no problem. Once you remove the can though, clean the gun right away.As far as the gear, you definitely don't want to get this stuff on you, or you'll end up wearing it for about a week. I haven't ever sprayed large areas like stud bays, but the guys who spray for a living cover up for a reason. BTW... If you're considering doing a large area, (more than 1 wall, or so,) it's probably more economical to hire it out to an insul. contractor who's got a full size rig, & buys the A&B components in volume.

        1. JohnT8 | Jun 21, 2005 12:59am | #8

          As one poster mentioned, you don't need an expensive setup, & DO keep your guns clean. We've found that if we leave the can attached to the gun, it's less messy & cumbersome than cleaning the gun every day. We've left cans attached for a week or more with no problem. Once you remove the can though, clean the gun right away.

          So the tube end isn't as prone to clog at the can-attachment area?

          Good advice, thanks Greg.jt8

          A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

          1. gregb | Jun 21, 2005 01:21am | #10

            By tube, do you mean gun barrel, John? The barrel has a needle in it that seals the opening as soon as you release the trigger. As long as air doesn't get inside the gun, it hasn't clogged on us.

            If you're referring to a tube that gets attached to the barrel to get into tight spots, we either clean those after each use, let the foam harden in them, & push the foam log out of the tube with a piece of wire, or just throw the tube away.

          2. csnow | Jun 21, 2005 08:23pm | #16

            "So the tube end isn't as prone to clog at the can-attachment area?"

            Have not clogged mine yet, but the instructions for the Pageris indicate that you should never remove the can without immediately swapping to a replacement can. 

            After swapping cans, you are supposed to immediately run enough fresh foam through it to clear out any moisture that may have snuck in during the can change.

            They also state that this gun (unlike some other brands) is not designed to be cleaned by flushing solvent through the gun itself.

            On the outlet side, they provide a solvent for cleaning the gun tip and needle tip.  I use the solvent and a large paper clip to clean out the needle tip.  Kit comes with 4 tips, but I am still using the first one.

            I have stored the gun for over 2 months with no trouble.

            On your question about can compatibility, I think there is a standard going here. I have used 4 brands of cans, and they all fit.

            The 'fill' foam is far more expansive than the gun foam.  Otherwise, they are chemically similar products.

          3. JohnT8 | Jun 21, 2005 09:20pm | #17

            The fomo looks expensive to use to completely fill bays. 

            In my case I might be better served to just use the gun/can to seal the cracks and to seal EPS in place.  While its more work to install, the overall cost should be less.

            I think I'll go ahead and pick up a gun.jt8

            A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

          4. csnow | Jun 21, 2005 10:42pm | #18

            "In my case I might be better served to just use the gun/can to seal the cracks and to seal EPS in place.  While its more work to install, the overall cost should be less."

            Do it all the time.  Was up late last night foaming foam in place.  Rigid foam is much cheaper than fill foam.  I would suggest extruded polystyrene though (not expanded).  I just cut the rigid foam about 1/4" inch short in each dimension (1/8" gap all around), then inject foam around it.  If I did not have the needle tip, I would want a 1/4" gap to get the gun tip in.

          5. JohnT8 | Jun 22, 2005 01:00am | #19

            I use XPS for exterior and EPS for interior.  EPS is usually cheaper, but can be harder to find.  Some time I want to try some of that R Control stuff.

            What is your preferred type of foam for foaming the foam?  Are you using adhesive foam or just the regular stuff?

             jt8

            A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

          6. csnow | Jun 22, 2005 04:20pm | #21

            "I use XPS for exterior and EPS for interior.  EPS is usually cheaper, but can be harder to find.  Some time I want to try some of that R Control stuff.

            What is your preferred type of foam for foaming the foam?  Are you using adhesive foam or just the regular stuff?"

            Expanded may be cheaper, but it is harder to work with, and has a lower R.

            Regular low expansion foam is the stuff you want.

      2. User avater
        BillHartmann | Jun 21, 2005 01:16am | #9

        That fomoco site listed earlier has 2 part foams also. That is much closer to the "type 2". You might use it for something like patching a few bays or rim joist. But still not practical to use for a house.

  2. csnow | Jun 20, 2005 10:02pm | #2

    You will love using a foam gun.  So much easier and neater that straw foam.

    The Pageris gun kit from EFI (other poster linked it) comes with a set of needle tips, which takes foaming to a whole new level.  With this, you can use foam to fill even very small cracks and voids that you would never have considered using foam for.

    Even if you do not buy the Pageris gun, I suspect that the needle tips (they sell them seperately) would fit most other guns.

    Another advantage to a gun is that it can be used for small projects without wasting a partial can.  I have never had much luck getting a partially used can of straw foam to restart.

    BTW, one (not all) local HD recently started carrying 24oz. gun cans (with firestop as a bonus) for about $9.  This is about the same as my best mailorder price after shipping.

    The best mailorder deal on foam I have found is $8.07 per can + ship:

    http://www.masondrywallsupply.com/sunshop/index.php?action=category&id=43&subid=&PHPSESSID=3742e0fcefa24579344c3edf1a5433b4&currentpage=&firsttime=yes

    Re-reading your post, perhaps you are looking for 'fill' foam as opposed to 'sealant' foam.  For that, have a look at http://www.fomofoam.com

     

    1. ronbudgell | Jun 20, 2005 11:07pm | #3

      IVe never seen the needle tips for a Pageris gun, which would make them more useful, but I've owned a couple of Pageris guns and find them far too fussy and delicate for real life. If you get the tiniest fleck of dirt in it, it's screwed and it's trade-in time at half the cost of a new one.  My last Pageris didn't have two full cans of foam through it and it was toast.

      I have an Italian version which is made to be completyely dismantled and cleaned by the user in case of trouble, but there hasn't been any trouble. It doesn't have a brand name printed on it. It just says "Made in EC" and there's some numbers. The handle is blue cast aluminum.

       I strongly recommend it over the Pageris.

      Ron

      1. csnow | Jun 20, 2005 11:31pm | #5

        "IVe never seen the needle tips for a Pageris gun, which would make them more useful, but I've owned a couple of Pageris guns and find them far too fussy and delicate for real life. If you get the tiniest fleck of dirt in it, it's screwed and it's trade-in time at half the cost of a new one.  My last Pageris didn't have two full cans of foam through it and it was toast."

        The needle tips came with my kit from EFI (http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/21_28_1268).

        Just curious- how do you get dirt in it?  Do you mean around the tip?

        I may be doomed eventually, but I have passed at least 36 cans through the Pageris so far.

        1. ronbudgell | Jun 21, 2005 12:04pm | #12

          csnow,

          given my experience and the experience of a couple of friends, I'd say you've been lucky with the Pageris

          If I knew how dirt or maybe hardened foam got into the gun, I could probably stop it and not have a problem. I assume it gets in when changing a can. Be as fussy as you can bear to be with keeping it clean.

          Ron

    2. tab1 | Feb 26, 2006 09:34am | #29

      <The best mailorder deal on foam I have found is $8.07 per can + ship:http://www.masondrywallsupply.com/sunshop/index.php?action=category&id=43&subid=&PHPSESSID=3742e0fcefa24579344c3edf1a5433b4&currentpage=&firsttime=yes>Can you still get this from masondrywall? I can't get the link to work, and can't find it on their website.
      Thanks.
      Thon

      1. csnow | Feb 27, 2006 03:22am | #30

        Appears to be gone. 

        They may have had trouble shipping them.

        I had one that burst!

        1. FrankDuVal | Feb 27, 2006 09:29am | #32

          The best price several years ago was from Arlene at :
          S.F.Products
          P.O. Box 18215
          Atlanta, GA 30316800-235-2094
          404-378-2203http://www.sfproducts.comI bought EnerFoam.My Pageris gun was bought from them 5 years ago and is still working great. I leave the foam can attached for months and just clean the tip opening with a pocket knife when I need to use it. I sometimes run some of the cleaner through it when changing foam cans.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

          1. csnow | Feb 27, 2006 05:15pm | #33

            "My Pageris gun was bought from them 5 years ago and is still working great. I leave the foam can attached for months and just clean the tip opening with a pocket knife when I need to use it. I sometimes run some of the cleaner through it when changing foam cans."

            Just thought I should mention that the instructions for Pageris guns (at least the one I have) state that you should not run solvent through the gun, or use anything made of metal to clean the tip.

          2. FrankDuVal | Feb 27, 2006 05:34pm | #34

            Very interesting. The cleaner is sold in cans that screw onto the gun just like the foam.
            I can see where putting something into the barrel of the gun will damage the ball at the end. But if I do not pick the hard foam off the tip then the foam doesn't come out after a long idle time (months).
            It is wiser to run cleaner through it if not going to be used for a long time. Just like taking batteries out of equipment tha is not going to be used. How many flashlights have I lost not doing this?
            My Pageris is made of metal for the foam handling parts. The handle is plastic, even the adjustment knob.Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

          3. csnow | Feb 27, 2006 05:50pm | #35

            "Very interesting. The cleaner is sold in cans that screw onto the gun just like the foam. "

            According to the documentation, the internal seals can be damaged by the solvent.  Many other brands require that the gun be cleaned by flushing it with solvent, but Pageris says no go.  I do worry about the foam hardening up in the gun, but it rarely sits more than a few months, and it has not failed yet.  I do try to store it in a dry area, and I always wrap the tip with plastic and tape.

            "I can see where putting something into the barrel of the gun will damage the ball at the end. But if I do not pick the hard foam off the tip then the foam doesn't come out after a long idle time (months)."

            They say to pick it off with something soft like a fingernail or a plastic tool.  I think the issue is that if the plastic "plunger" in the tip is scratched, it will no longer seal tight at the tip.  If air gets in there, it's all over.  I use a knife when I have to, but I carefuly avoid the plastic tip.

  3. djj | Jun 20, 2005 11:30pm | #4

    John,

    My local yard (united building center) carries this stuff:

    http://www.touchnfoam.com/pro.htm

    The gun is about 20 bucks and the cans are about 9 bucks. It works great and for a single project the cheap gun is all you need. I have ran about a dozen cans through mine so far and even with minimal cleaning, it is still working like the day I bought it.

    Regards,

    Dennis 

  4. JonE | Jun 21, 2005 01:28am | #11

    I use Wind-Lock foam and their foam gun.  It comes in 24 ounce cans which screw on to the gun.  My local masonry supply place had a few cans in stock when I ran out on my ICF job, but it's probably easier to mail order from a stocking dealer.    They also sell a gun cleaner - basically acetone under pressure.  Cured foam does NOT dissolve in anything (well, maybe a year's worth of direct UV rays), so if you unscrew a half-used can, clean the gun immediately.  They do come apart for cleaning but it's tedious - I spent an hour with an X-acto knife on mine after I left it too long.

    You can leave a can on the gun for a few days, maybe even a couple weeks, with no ill effects.  I wouldn't take any chances past that, though.  Also, I hear that other makes of foam are interchangeable with most guns - heven't tried that yet.

    I would bet that a bit of some kind of teflon spray would make the foam stuff much easier to get off a gun once cured.

     

    1. moltenmetal | Jun 21, 2005 02:41pm | #13

      I have the same experience with the WindLock gun.  I bought the cheapo one for ~$40 CDN and it's great.  Way more user-friendly than canned foam. 

      I've left the gun for a month with a can on it in the vertical position with no plugging.  I cover the tip with one of those little glue bottle condoms that Lee Valley sells as a back-up seal.

      I did have one freak-out session though.  I got a bad can of foam- not enough propellant I guess.  I put a new can on the gun and pulled the trigger and got no foam out.  I figured I'd plugged the gun by not switching over quickly enough, so I ran and got the gun cleaner, cleaned out the gun completely and put on the same can again- no joy.  Put on a new can without re-cleaning the gun and everything was fine.

  5. User avater
    G80104 | Jun 21, 2005 03:31pm | #14

     We have been using the Hilti Foam Guns for the past 10 years with good luck. Keep it clean & it will last along time. Will post a picture of the gun, foam & cleaner in the pm.

    1. JohnT8 | Jun 21, 2005 05:19pm | #15

       

      Like this model CF-DS1?

       

      View Imagejt8

      A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

      1. User avater
        G80104 | Jun 22, 2005 04:38am | #20

         Now your talking! Here are the rules.... Always have a can of foam or a can of cleaner on it. I get 2 years on a gun if the rules are followed. The insulation company Hooks me up with the products. I think you can get the same stuff @ the Grande Big Box stores.

        1. JohnT8 | Jun 22, 2005 04:58pm | #22

          Geeze, that's quite a barrel on that black gun!

          On the shorter barrelled Hilti, can you jam some plastic tubing on the end of the barrell for those hard to reach areas?

           

          jt8

          A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

          Edited 6/22/2005 10:06 am ET by JohnT8

          1. User avater
            G80104 | Jun 23, 2005 03:51am | #23

              I have never tried to put a tube on the end, will give er a go this week & see what happens. We also like the long neck for the high spots. The part I dont get is, they want us (the building dept) to fill all voids & holes with foam for fire protection. You ever put a flame to the foam? The smoke will make you sicker than a dog,& burns real good.

          2. reinvent | Jun 23, 2005 04:34am | #24

            There are special fire retardent foams that are made to be used as fire blocking. They expand and char when exposed to flame. I dont know if they can be purchased for the Hilti and Pageris guns though. They might only be available as stand alone cans. Had the fire dept tell me that it was a good idea because it prevents heat from traveling up walls and soffits and causing flash fires in higher elevations in a building.

          3. User avater
            BillHartmann | Jun 23, 2005 04:38am | #25

            There is DRAFT blocking and FIRE BLOCKING, which are different.Draft blocking is designed to reduce the area that can burn and build up a big fire. It has to block drafts not fire.Fire blocking is used a fire resistant assembly together for a known time period.I may not be using those terms correctly, but that is the concept.

          4. User avater
            G80104 | Jun 23, 2005 05:25am | #26

            10-4 on the draft & fire stop, we know all so well. I think the foam is a week link in the fire protection chain. Now fire caulk, which we use on all party walls vs. foam. The fire caulk is Da Bomb. We buy it by the truck load.

               I like the foam for weatherization, but for draft or fire stop I dont think its all that great. 

          5. User avater
            BillHartmann | Jun 23, 2005 05:02pm | #27

            BTW, fomoco has some fire foam.Have not looked at the specs to see what it does.

          6. JohnT8 | Jun 23, 2005 08:46pm | #28

            I have never used it, but noticed it during my search:

            http://greatstuff.dow.com/greatstuff/pro/fireblock.htm

             jt8

            A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. -- Sir Winston Churchill

  6. BoJangles | Feb 27, 2006 06:07am | #31

    I found this thread interesting because I have spent more time trying to keep my foam guns operating than I do to keep my backhoe running!

    I use the gun for a day or so and then I may not use it for weeks.  This has always caused me problems when I went to use it the next time.

    Finally I tried the gun cleaning canisters that you screw on to the gun after use to blast it out, and these work alright, but are expensive and seem to lose their charge if you leave them on the gun for a longer period of time.

    So...Here's what I do now, and it works perfectly!   Take an empty can of the gun cleaner and drill a 3/8" hole in the bottom of the can (right in the center).  The bottom of the can is concave, so it acts like a funnel.

    When you are done shooting foam, remove the foam can from the gun and screw the empty cleaner canister to the gun.  Hold the gun so the bottom of the can is facing up and pour in a few ounces of acetone through the hole you drilled.

    Take an air hose with a blower nozzle with a rubber tip, and slightly pressurize the can (by blowing through the hole) while holding the gun trigger open fully.  This will clean every speck of foam out of the gun in a few seconds.

    Then I take an oil can and shoot a little oil into the ball area of the gun to lube the trigger mechanism.

    A little dash of acetone on the top of the foam can will clean it right up.

    Next time I go to use the gun, it always works!!

     

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