foam insulation on masonry,New idea?
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After 10 years of building we applied for our Occupancy permit and after 2 years of correcting minor safety issues the county has placed major demands on us.We went through the appeals process with a demand that we reengineer the entire house.Our retired engineer has been brought back and we have been working on that issue.Of the 4 problems on the NOV(Notice of violation) is one of the non-prescriptive procedure we used to attach our XPS insulation.The house is of steel and mansonry block and we used 3/8″ X 12″ galvanized steel spikes and 3′ washers as fasteners to hold the 8″ XPS.We predrilled 3/8″ holes and inserted steel siezing wire into those holes.We then drove the 12″ spikes into those holes creating a “siezed” fit.There are 10 spikes per 4 X 8 sheet.The spikes also hold poultry netting and stucco.The XPS also sets on its own footer at ground level.We garnered this indea from Breaktime many years ago and it works very well. The county says this procedure is non-prescriptive and requires documentation.All efforts throught trade organizations has not helped.Can anyone provide info as the county is trying to evict us from our home.Thanks,Teresa L. |
Edited 8/3/2009 11:49 am ET by Teresa40
Replies
Teresa, in your other post I asked about manu. helping you out.
Why won't they accept the engineers word that it is alright?
I really think there is something going on that they are requireing after the fact explanations.
M
Frammer 52;Sir,The Extruded polystyrene asso.did not return our e-mails,nor the portland cement assoc.There are no signs of failure in the system other than the occasional shrickage crack,typical of traditional stucco.So why they have ignored our engineers certification is puzzling.Teresa
Having read this post and the other, I am of the conclusion that something is up.
I really don't know what to tell you. In NY the BI around here love engeneers stamps on plans and ways to do things, limits their liability. I can't understand from what you have told us why they don't either.
Are you sure that the county hasn't got eyes on your parcial of land for somereason?
Hey guys, since she started the same exact thread over again, it is clear she wants to get information exactly answering the question, without her answering any of the background questions.Rather than run up the entire thread all over again, why not let it stand at that. Only answer if you can fix her problem. That seems to be what she wants.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It may be the background questions/answers that are most relevant in this kind of situation. She's at the wrong place if there are things she is hiding and we can't help if the story isn't fleshed out. I respect the need for a degree of ... uh ... discreetness, but by the same token, she's looking for help with something that maybe she is uncomfortable expressing.
But still can't help if we don't know the scoop. Help is limited, let's just say.
That's my point
She already had a long thread asking for pertinent info
by not ansering and holding back, she caused rampant speculation
so now she starts the same thing all over again.If that is how she deals with her AHJ, she is her own worst enemy.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What you said!
Yeah, I know. Your point is much respected. Not sure if the solution is easy, though.
It is always a matter of comunicating with the AHJ to grok what it is he wants or is looking for, then find a way to satify that desire.Methinks Theresa is just glaring at the notie of vilation instead oif trying to understand it.for instnce, three emails to the foam people have gone un-answered so she now rejecs anything thmight have, even the idea of talking to them.But there is a phone, and letters and a vehicle to drive right on down the the office.......If I want info from somebody who has it, I am going to get it.
There are a lot of outfits that do not o a good job of answering by one method or another, but are generally good places to learn pro-actively or to do business in general.See this thread is her seond one in this forum written the same exact way, but she has sidestepped any attempt in the first thread to actually comunnicate.Wanna bet same thing goes on with AHJ?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piffin,
See this thread is her seond one in this forum written the same exact way, but she has sidestepped any attempt in the first thread to actually comunnicate.
Wanna bet same thing goes on with AHJ?
You're right on fella. Maybe I didn't give it enough time but I had asked for the XPS manufacturer info.....thought I'd take a moment to pull a little pleasant grief with the company and get her the info she's looking for. Usually the right contact, persistance, and the right angle will get you anything you want.
I'm even more lost at the fact they're mag article showed pictures of a fully furnished house.....what'r they doing living there full time without a CO? No wonder the inspect dept wants to put'em on the street.....the inspections department has to be squirming from liability issues. I was given permission to move my furniture in 3 days prior to my temp power being connected permanently but not sleep there hint hint. I can't imagine they've been living there for what appears to be years and somebody not being understandably bent out of shape.....maybe I've missed something and for the homeowners sake I hope I'm wrong but.......
I'm not purposefully attempting to be crass, but I don't understand how somebody could develop a home to that level for so little and not be able to follow through a little red tape. Now if it was a dump and ready to cave in, it might make sense.......aaa who knows.
Pedro the Mule - Even my stall had to meet code
I was wondering what was happening to the not so old thread and voila, here it is again...
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=122993.1
Hi Teresa,
You mentioned emails to the XPS foam company have gone unanswered.......who is the manufacturer you are attempting to contact and which location, etc.?
Also specifically which product did you use?
Pedro the Mule - Gonna see about gettin' an answer
Not sure I understand the materials you used. Sounds like a big overkill to attach XPS to the wall. 3/8" spikes?! Yikes!! I'll try to clarify and you fill in the gaps, OK? So the spikes hold not only the XPS, but the stucco exterior finish as well, right? Still sounds like a heafty system to anchor the XPS and support the stucco. The stucco industry is who to talk to ... what is appropriate method of attaching to CMU (concrete masonry units) through XPS underlayment. Most XPS attachment I've seen is glued on pins and (not sure what to call them) washers that friction fit over the pin. Done all the time for insulation systems in commercial buildings (both batt and foam systems). But that is for insulation only ... not another material as well.
So ... the structure is engineered ... no problem, right? You reinforced horizontally and vertically per requirements, right?
So ... if you want relief, maybe consult w/ an architect well familiar w/ materials applications. After all this is insulation and weather finish, right? It's not a structural thing.
How did you attach your 3 inch(?) washers?
I think most instances of holding a e.g. 3/8" steel rod in masonry/concrete requires them to be embedded in epoxy. That is typical when e.g. tying a new concrete structure into an existing concrete structure or in installing a new anchor fastener into existing concrete.
Generally, it sounds like the BO is not being very helpful. Maybe during your process, you may have been 'confrontational' (not sure that is the best word) with him. Don't mean to sound harsh, but it is easy to 'speak your mind' and polarize a relationship with a BO when ultimately you need him (whether you like his decision or not). Or maybe he's just the type to balk at anything that is different. Remember there is usually a way to challenge his decision, but you best have your ducks well in line to do so.
I don't know your specifics ... sounds a bit like the engineer isn't really providing good documentation that the BO may require or accept. Not a time to cut corners in this regard. Does the engineer have documentation that what you did is sound? Or does he just feel it is right? Not sure why you are asking an engineer anyway (structural, I assume?).
I know little specifics about your situation, so don't take my statements to heart. Just trying to provide some food for thought.
Edited 8/6/2009 9:03 am ET by Clewless1
After reading the article you posted in another thread ... It says ... "When something doesn't fit or work quite right, he figures out a solution."
Your efforts to use recycled materials is quite commendable. That doesn't mean, however that codes should be relaxed to accomodate your wants. The article doesn't say what kinds of things are holding your CO up.
Part of the problem w/ lay people 'doing it themselves' is that there are areas that they often don't understand very well and they try to cut corners (for lack of a better term). This can result in less than desireable results and problems w/ the BO giving approval.
You have not made it clear what problems the BO is having w/ your construction. Is it the materials and techniques you are using for the exterior wall finish? Your descriptioon is somewhat vague. You also haven't responded to my previous post trying to better understand the situation. You want help, but you need to provide the information if you expect us to be able to assist ... which these guys are generally over the top willing to do.
I can and have had many discussions about various aspects of the building codes and how 'ridiculoug' they are. We could have discussion as lay or professionals about these things. They aren't perfect and they can be very confusing; I think they make them complex intentionally to give someone some job security.
That being said, though, building codes are there generally to provide life safety to the people that occupy the building ... including the innocent young people that may occupy your house (in case you use the argument that you will never sell the house and/or that you and your husband are the only occupants ever to be in the house).
You need to provide more clarity if you expect support and feedback that is relevant. The lack of responses to your second post is maybe due to this lack of clarity ... or people that said they already tried to help ... and you didn't like what they said.
You want help, but you seem to not be willing to help us help you. I don't know.