FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Footing for concrete steps?

e2canoe | Posted in Construction Techniques on September 29, 2004 12:40pm

I’m asking for quotes to build concrete steps and landing for my front entrance.  Width of landing and steps is 6 feet.  Total length (including run of steps) is about 10 ft.  Depth of landing will be about 4 ft because of existing grade.  Total volume of the steps and landing is 7 cu. yds.  I’m on pretty high clay content soil.  Soil is undisturbed.

The first quote I got seemed pretty good to me ($2,500 Cdn or about $1,800 US) but didn’t include pouring a footing which I expected would be required for such a mass of concrete. which explains the good price.

My question: Should I insist on a footing (say 10 ft wide)?  Is compacted 8″ of GA enough instead?

 

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. e2canoe | Sep 30, 2004 03:15am | #1

    Can anyone help?  Footings or no footings?  How deep should AG be?

    1. AXE | Sep 30, 2004 04:45am | #2

      Canoe--

      I tore off a set of brick steps not quite as big as yours, but close, and it had no footing and had stood for 40 years with no problem.  It was on pretty good soil, basically compacted sandy type stuff with some minor clay in it.

      When I put the steps back on, I poured a footing 12" thick with rebar.  It was on top of 2' of gravel or so.  The reason I did this was because we had been digging around the house so my choice was backfill or gravel and then footing.

      I'd opt for the footing as it didn't cost much at all to form it and pour it.  Toss in rebar, #4 or #5 on 1' centers each way.  But you can more than likely get away with no footing.  Might be worth mechanically compacting before starting the first course.

      MERC

      1. dIrishInMe | Sep 30, 2004 05:17am | #3

        Right - and your steps were built in a part of the country that has no frost line to speak of.   Apparently, the guy who asked the question lives in Canada.

        To me the steps not only need to have a footer but needs to be pined to the structure that the steps will access.  Other wise, the steps will move up and down as the ground freezes.  On the other hand, I don't know squat about building in areas with serious frost lines. Matt

        1. User avater
          SamT | Sep 30, 2004 06:25am | #4

          Don't pn it. Either get a footing below frost or let it float.ICe exerts boucoup tons of pressure, it will break something with just pins

          SamT

          Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

          1. e2canoe | Sep 30, 2004 10:48am | #5

            Doh!  Yes, I forgot to mention that I was in Ottawa, Canada.  Frost line here 6 feet (according to city code but I've put fence posts to 3' and they haven't budged an inch in 6 years).

            Also, steps don't meet house so pinning to another structure is not an option.  The steps will stop in front of a porch.

            Is it common practice to go down 6' in this case?  If I don't I worry that the two wooden porch steps that I will have sitting on the concrete landing will get wrenched around during heave.

          2. dIrishInMe | Sep 30, 2004 01:29pm | #6

            Sam - did you interpret my comment to mean to install a footer that did not go below frost line?  That was not what I meant.

            Again, I don't build in Canada.  My thought though is if the steps are allowed to float, the step height between the building and the stair set will change over time and a gap may open up between the steps and the porch. To the original poster: A fence and 10 ton set of steps are probably not to similar. 

            Matt

            Edited 9/30/2004 6:37 am ET by DIRISHINME

          3. User avater
            SamT | Sep 30, 2004 07:12pm | #8

            I knew what you meant, I wanted to be sure he knew.

            No harm, no foul meant.

            Samt

            Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

  2. DgH | Sep 30, 2004 04:17pm | #7

    I just built a wood deck this summer and I live in Canada. I spent alot of time asking the building inspector questions and getting his permission for my ideas.

    I fastened the deck to the house on a ledge and put down 4 4' concrete footings with bulges at the bottom. The stairs off my deck (also wood) were required to be screwed into concrete; however, according to the code in Ontario (as approved by my local building inspector), regular concrete slab patio stones (18" x 18", or 24" x24" is what I asked about) are just fine. No footing required. I actually poured a 4" pad for it since I had extra bags of premixed concrete left. This was all approved.

    My front porch, which is really old, is built on no foundation at all and really scares me. I jacked it up and put some temporary supports underneath (also approved by the building inspector) since it supports an overhung roof... When you run across something like this in your own house you really appreciate building codes.

    I asked about footings etc... when I actually repair this. The inspector told me 4' footings beneath the frost line etc... However, he also told me that he classed this as a repair, not a rebuild, and not to worry about it being inspected. I will probably do the footings anyway, in a year or two... What is there now is much better than what was there before and the house has been around since 1910.

    There is my two cents based on an inspectors comments in South Western Ontario, right on Georgian Bay (Owen Sound, if it matters). Just giving you the exact location so that you can compare. My soil is fairly hard packed clay with gravel and stone mixed in. Good bearing strength.

    Last year I didn't know what any of this stuff meant.
  3. Tyr | Sep 30, 2004 09:16pm | #9

    Almost all concrete slabs used as porches around Denver are poured around several lengths of rebar that are buried in the foundation when it is poured.  Two different pours but I've seen many a porch slab actually in place with absolutely no support under them.  They just hang on that foundation rebar which goes below frost level.  Now I have installed some mountain decks and they have a 4' frost free depth.  Denver is 3'.  Remember, whatever the depth, the footing just goes to that depth--not below it.  Would I be looking for a footing when nothing contacts the foundation?  You bet.  Dig to the frostfree depth (It might take more than one hole), Slip a Sonotube into it (the one for the step would be in the center) bend some rebar (two to each side--like a "T"), form up the step, pour concrete for footing & step in one pour.  Or if you are going to have two or three steps, form them up and make one pour.  Probably you'll have two Sonotubes w/rebar.  Pressure treated foundations can hold up a house but I don't think you want to get into that.

    Almost sounds like the steps will be going up to a deck.  Are they?  One Sonotube with grade level "T" for the wood stringers to rest upon.  Recent weather (last few years) in Colorado have dried out the soil--sidewalks have cracked, then intruding water froze and things heaved.  Sometimes the first concrete steps of porches moved too--usually down.  If there is any way to pin a "surface covering" like a side walk or patio to the house foundation I would do it.  Hammerdrill a tight hole below the slab surface and sledge in the length of rebar in the hole.  Bend to fit. You can even epoxy the rebar in the hole and it will never come out.  Of course the guy you hire knows all of this.  Make sure it is in the specifications.  Not just "fix porch".  Renting does have benefits.  Tyr.

  4. DanH | Sep 30, 2004 10:08pm | #10

    Being in cold country, some sort of footing is needed to keep the steps from heaving relative to the adjacent structure.

    You really don't need to go down 6 feet, though, since the ground will never freeze that deep close to a structure. Three feet is probably sufficient, if you can tolerate a little "wobble" between structures.

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Podcast Episode 686: Brick Steps, Ground-Source Heat Pumps, and Greenhouses in Nova Scotia

Listeners write in about fireplaces affecting family harmony and bionic suits, before asking questions about brick steps, ground-source heat pumps, and building a dome greenhouse in Maritime Canada.

Featured Video

How to Install Exterior Window Trim

Learn how to measure, cut, and build window casing made of cellular PVC, solid wood, poly-ash boards, or any common molding material. Plus, get tips for a clean and solid installation.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 686: Brick Steps, Ground-Source Heat Pumps, and Greenhouses in Nova Scotia
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Efficient HVAC for a New Build
  • Affordable Scans, Accurate Plans
  • FHB Summit 2025 — Design, Build, Business

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2024
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers
  • Issue 327 - November 2024
    • Repairing Damaged Walls and Ceilings
    • Plumbing Protection
    • Talking Shop

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data