Footings for concrete (block) stairs
What would be the preferred size/type of footing to use for a set of block stairs with a landing at the top ?
A 3′ deep landing by 6′ wide, leading to two steps down to patio.
Block core (framework) with cultured stone facade, limestone treads and railings out of some sort of concrete product (yet to be determined).
I’ve already dug out a hole 34″ deep by 6′ wide & 6′ long. I’m located in Syracuse, NY area. This stairs and patio will be covered by a porch type roof (when done). Patio surface will also have “stone-tile” slabs of various sizes. Also I’m building an outdoor kitchen – built-in grill, cabinets with marble countertops and fridge. Will the cabinetry with the weight of equipment and the cultured stone on it require a footing ?
Thanks,
Scott
Replies
Having grown up in WNY, I would expect your footing depth to be at least 48"
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I don't know about the depth for your area, but normally a step pad for masonry steps is just a 8" thick slab, possible with rebar, depending on the soil, and the length and width being the size of the steps plus about a foot.
If the house footings are already poured and therefor the house and step footings will not be integral, I'd drill the house footers and put rebar dowels between the old and new.
That might be normal downyour way, but up here the steps would raise further at the outside every windter until after 10-15 years the far out would be 4" higher than near the house and the final step would not be right.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If the concrete step pad is below the frostline, why would that happen?
Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought that you pour a 8" pad only 8" below surface of the ground. If you meant to pour it below frost line, I'm with you.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think we are on the same page - it's just trying to communicate via a keyboard is sometimes a little challenging.
Maybe in the future, it will all be verbal - like as in via a microphone and presented through the speakers of the computer. Wouldn't that be different??
Just think, maybe in 20 or 30 years the lucky ones of us will be describing to our great grand kids what a keyboard is :-)
covered by a porch type roof ...equipment and the cultured stone on it require a footing ?
With what Piffin said, "in WNY, I would expect your footing depth to be at least 48"."
Yes, you need a footing and perimeter drainage and a coarse draining fill. The landscape should also slope away from the patio.
A couple of inches of foam insulation under the slab and inside the foundation walls can negate the need for full excavation and special fill. See your local expert.
Without putting any effort into an estimate, I suggest you budget on the order of ten grand for the foundation work. That budget should leave you pleasantly surprised when done.
This sounds like a perfect application for in slab (radiant) heat.
SamT
Praise the Corporation, for the Corporations' highest concern is the well being of the public.
Ok, I'm gonna answer again, based on that after reading the other responses I missed some things in your initial post and actually now that I carefully reread your initial post I'm more confused than ever.
My first answer really pertained to title of your thread and you Q in the first sentence of your post: is a footer needed for a steps? My answer - pour a 8" thick pad, which still stands, with the clarification that it needs to be at the proper depth which I thought I said the first time around and, the pad will actually be serving as a footing... anyway...
OK - so you said:
>>A 3' deep landing by 6' wide, leading to two steps down to patio.
Block core (framework) with cultured stone facade, limestone treads and railings out of some sort of concrete product (yet to be determined).
I've already dug out a hole 34" deep by 6' wide & 6' long. I'm located in Syracuse, NY area. This stairs and patio will be covered by a porch type roof (when done). << Still good up to this point, although Piffin says 32" isn't deep enough which sounds right, as I previous stated, I don't know the required depth for your area... Now the confusion: >> Patio surface will also have "stone-tile" slabs of various sizes. << Is that the patio at the bottom of the steps or the porch surface at the top of the steps? How about if we call the raised covered area a porch and the at grade?? area at the bottom of the steps a patio? So, it sounds like maybe the porch will have a concrete floor covered with some kind of stone work. Sounds like it will look nice.
>>Also I'm building an outdoor kitchen - built-in grill, cabinets with marble countertops and fridge. Will the cabinetry with the weight of equipment and the cultured stone on it require a footing ?<< All that stuff is going on a 3'x6' platform and there is still a walking area????? Or is the outdoor kitchen in the area at the bottom of the steps? Or, are there 2 raised areas??? - a landing (porch)with a few steps going down to a raised but not covered patio that will have the outdoor kitchen on it???
As an Aside, I'm having a little trouble picturing >> railings out of some sort of concrete product << Do you mean like kneewalls, or like actually railings with newel posts, concrete hand rails and maybe balusters? I mean I've seen stuff like that, but it would generally be on a mansion or maybe on the White House.
A bit of information for you - cultured stone is not terribly heavy - that is why it doesn't need a brick ledge to support it when it is applied to a wall. Regarding the weight of the kitchen equipment, homes aren't built any stronger in the kitchen area just because they are getting expensive appliances and granite counter tops, so no, as a general statement the loads you describe are nothing out of the ordinary. The main load that your footers must support are just the dead load of the structure itself.
OK, thanks for the info. I'll clarify some more info:
Patio will be at bottom of steps -area: 10'X22' - with cooking island at far corner "L" shaped. Patio surface when done will have "Stone-Tile" sizes: 24"X24", 18"X24" & 16"X24" (sopmething like that).
It will be covered with a roof, a continuation of roof-line from wraparound porch on house. As far as the footing goes it'll be 8" deep by 16" wide, but should I pour a solid square where the steps will be or just a perimeter footing ?
So as the kit. island goes I won't need a footing ? I can mount cabinets directly to patio surface ? Those will be constructed of metal 2X4's with backerboard and cultured stone on facade, and the grill, marble countertops and small fridge.
Thanks again to ALL
Scott
So, the landing, steps and patio will all be under roof? Any roof suporting structure needs footings under it.
RE >> should I pour a solid square where the steps will be or just a perimeter footing ? << masonry steps normally get complete footing support - a pad.
What is to be under the stone surface of the patio? sand/gravel? Concrete?
Yes I'm aware of the posts for the roof structure, need a deep footing 36"- 42".
Under the stone-tile will be stone dust about 2", under that is crushed stone/dirt about 6-8"
About the steps pad - rebar reinforced (a good idea ?) -
Thanks,
Scott