I’m planning to build scissors stairs in a 2 story plus attic over crawl space. My draftsman has drawn footings to go in the crawl space to support the bearing walls in and around the stair well. Every house I have have framed before has had a basement, therefore footings have always been appropriate. On this house since the stairs terminate on the ground floor. I don’t see the need for the footings. any bearing should be able to transfer onto bearing beams within the floor system which will be picked up by the nearest footing. It’s not a big deal but I think a few short beams are a bit faster and cheaper then the extra footings. I’d be happy to hear any oppinions.
Edited 5/6/2005 10:51 pm ET by nails
Replies
Sure, but best have it engineered to be sure. I think your draftsman was just being safe and going with the obvious solution. Two stories of stairwell walls (that may be transferring other loads also) sitting on a couple of beams could concentrate the load at a couple of critical stress points, just make sure you've got it covered.
Huck, thanks for your input. Although I like to find simpler and more cost effective ways for doing something. I'll take 'making sure it's covered' as priority any day.
Any other opinions out there?
I'll bet you don't need footings. We're talking about a staircase within non-bearing walls, right?
Make sure to look carefully at how the stairwell opening in the upper floor frames and connects to any walls between floors. Often in staircases, a wall from first to second is picking up floor load from second and transferring it down to first, thus the need for some structural consideration in the first floor frame.
You an engineer?
"Often in staircases, a wall from first to second is picking up floor load from second and transferring it down to first, thus the need for some structural consideration"
This was my concern also. Since the stairwell usually requires a head-out situation, with joists hanging off a beam or a doubled header, there is usually some floor load transfer. Also, he mentioned an attic, hence the possibility that the stairs continue up to the attic, and pick up some ceiling joist load transfer there also, as well as any live loads from attic storage. Without asking a bunch of ques., I figure the safest course is to have a structural engineer double-check his proposed design. Cheap insurance.
Am I an engineer? No I am a framer. And yes there definately will be some load transfer. I don't mind putting the footings in, but my draftsman is having it checked out just for knowledge sake. Thnks for your input, Gene and Huck.
it be cheaper and quicker just install the footer, dig a hole fill with concrete, 1/2 of a day. instead of waiting a week for engineer answer
I'm in the plan drawing stage. Also more to it than just the footings - still have to frame the walls to go on the footings. as well as the bit of extra pour (i know it's not much) plus strip the forms. throwing in a couple properly size beams would take just a bit longer than stripping the forms - not long 15 - 20 minutes( around here we don't do trench pours )
Edited 5/8/2005 10:17 pm ET by nails2
why not do trench pours. one of the quickest and most cost effected method to get out of the ground. 99% are trench pours here.
Just not done around here. In fact I never even heard of it until I saw it in some print material. Also I'm already in a hole I don't want to dig another.
I don't think I've ever seen it done in these parts, not to say that it's not done at all. But I'd have to say that the high majority (99%) of footings are made with anything from 2x6 to 2x10 lumber.( whatever is specified).
every excavated sight I've worked in or seen around here, is one big hole, with no trenches. when we build our footings the footings are staked level. Not to say that you couldn't dig a level trench, or compensate for an unleveled footing as you build your foundation forms.
I'm sure there are plenty of areas where trench forms are the norm and i'm sure there are plenty of pros to that approach.( less forming material for one) But for the most part people tend to build the way they know and like building. around here. One big level pit. then throw up the forms, make em nice and level, and your off to a great start.
Also, once you pour your footing do you not then have to then form your curb wall to sit on top of the footing? sounds like 2 pours to me.
Then I still have to frame up the bearing walls. It's still way quicker to cut a couple beams and throw on a couple hangers.
But as I stated before, If structurally footings are the way to go, that's what I'm doing.Oh, and one other point. Where do you put your drain tile. Maybe in your neck of the woods soil conditions and amount of rain do not warrant that you place your drain tile at bottom of footing. Here in British Columbia we get mass amounts of rain for at least half the year. With a trench footing we'd have to dig another trench to place drain tile. But then again since we don't do em here, maybe there's something I'm missing. * see FHB # 170 pg 10.
Edited 5/8/2005 11:55 pm ET by nails2
Edited 5/9/2005 10:11 am ET by nails2
Edited 5/9/2005 10:14 am ET by nails2
was just thinking about your trench footings and the drain tile. perhpaps you lower your entire footing so that top of footing is well below the interior slab. Is this true? I guess that would work. So you would trade extra lumber ( it gets reused) for extra excavation in lowering your entire pit as well as the trench dig out. In any case I'm curious to know what you guys do. - I always like to learn.
Edited 5/9/2005 6:11 pm ET by nails2
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