My boss would like to put his sign on my Isuzu npr box truck. Any idea what to charge him for ad space.
He has been talking magnetic so it would be removable if we part ways. Then I mentioned the problem of aluminum not being magnetic. Any ideas on removable signs or should I charge a deposit to paint over sign in the future?
I’ve also told him he should look into liability if I cause an accident as lawyers would surely try to get into company pocket if something bad happens.
Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Replies
I would not want to be in your shoes. This is exactly the kind of thing bosses should not do. You can't win on this one. If you say no and prefer to have your truck as is, he will resent it. If you say yes, you will scratch up your truck or at least will have turned it into an advertisement. Maybe that doesn't bother you. Once he pays you to do it, you will feel stuck with the sign and he will feel a small sense of ownership of your truck. Does he send you to the lumber yard with your truck to pick up things? I would say no and discreetly start looking for a new crew.
Your boss is looking for a "freebie". So, he pays for the sign and maybe even an advertising fee to you. But he gets an image that he has another vehicle in his stable making him look bigger than he really is.
THAT'S the advertising that he wants. If your truck would be the second truck to carry his sign/ logo, then he has doubled his fleet (as everyone else views him) but has only paid for a sign and avoided the costs and responsibilities of ownership. Brilliant on his part, foolish on yours.
F
one of my guys offered to put my signs on his truck.. but i declined
i want my signs on my equipment ..not on my employees... i have no control ovber where my sign will be seen or how they are driving with it unless it's on the company trucks
one of the local remodelers has an arrangement with his "independent contractors" thta they will display his signs.. but i don't know any of the details
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My boss hasn't exactly avoided the costs and responsibilities of ownership. He pays all insurance, gas, repairs, maintenance. I bought the truck. I don't feel foolish at all. It is to my advantage for the company to look bigger.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Mikey,Not to air all of your personal financial details over the internet, but could you elaborate more on the financial set up between you and your boss, if you feel comfortable?I think your situation could be great for both parties if it's set up fairly.
Jon Blakemore
I 've been hesitant to get specific over the internet but what the heck. Its not like I'm giving out account numbers or anything. I do know some posters will tell me I'm foolish and they're welcome to their opinions.
I was getting $22 an hour. I told the boss I was spending so much on tools I needed an allowance. He asked how much and I said $2 an hour off the top of my head. He agreed.
The company does have tools but they are in poor shape and are hard to find when I need them. Example: I asked for the 15ga trim gun and boss forgot to bring it. Three times. I bought a senco. It's in my truck, top drawer, first cabinet on the right. And the fittings don't leak and there is a small bottle of gun oil in the drawer next to it.
When I decided to buy the truck I shopped hard for it. Not based on price but on what I wanted. I wanted used less than 100,000 miles deisel, 16' inside length (very hard to find I got 15') It was looking like I'd spend $15 to 17,000. I found one for $9,000. And it has a lift gate which I love.
The company reimburses me 100% for insurance, registration, fuel, repairs, and maintenance.
I spent my money and time making it a work truck instead of an empty box.
The truck is mine and ONLY I drive it. I do use it to pick up materials. I decided what insurance coverage and deductible was appropriate. I decide what maintenance is needed. I decide what repairs to do. I try to be absolutely fair, he trusts me.
The company also gave me $3000 "Christmas bonus".
We have become freinds. I'm captain of a pool team. He's on it.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Sound like a straight shooter. Boss is getting a good deal. You are too for now, sounds like.
And, you'll be set up and ready for 'partner' or own your own when you get ready.
Reading your posts kinda renewed my faith that the principles or hard work, fair play and square dealing are still alive.
Thanks. Good luck and best wishes.
"A hard head makes for a sore a$$."
Edited 2/5/2005 12:11 am ET by intrepid_cat
I'm with you on this one... the deal you have is more than fair to everyone...why? because you're happy with it... period
those who can do.. the rest try to tell you how to... man i hate split'n hairs... and i hate argue'n over anything..really hate when it's money... of all the things we hold dear money is way down on my list because it's the easiest to replace..I'm not the most educated but i know how to work hard and I try to be fair to a fault... I hate see'n others get screwed but have taken quite a few... It's a big round world what goes around comes around... I might see things a bit differently than most since i've never had a boss... except as a customer
as far as people yelling "man your boss is save'n 20k..." thats a bunch of crap... one if he purchased it new and over 6000lb GVW he gets to take 50% off the first year... plus no one pays cash so whats he save'n ? $2-300.00 a month? man enjoy your truck and the relationship you have, I learned along time ago pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered....
passion? sounds a little bitter to me....
stay happy and keep do'n what you're do'n seems to be work'n
pony
"The company also gave me $3000 "Christmas bonus"."
well ... that settles it ...
he's a bad ... bad ... man. Run away quickly.
sell the tools and truck.
find someone that'll let ya only use beat tools and pay the lowest rates going.
really ... be yer own man!
that way ... when ya decide to quit for real ... ya can't! Yer stuck ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff,
PERSONALLY-----that's just my opinion
I wouldn't consider $130-140 bucks a month to be " MORE MONEY"
If the original poster does---that's certainly his perogative, and I would respect him for it.
But from where I am sitting the" business " owner gets an outrageously good deal in exchange for pocket money, chump change, petty cash---however ya wanna look at it.
However---none of that is my business or your business----and if the original poster is happy---it's none of our concern.
BUT------I suspect on some level the original poster isn't all that happy about it----something is bothering him about it------or he wouldn't be HERE asking us what WE think.
BTW Jeff-----how's the kids preschool working out? I have been meaning to ask for some time.
Stephen
I'm happy. The original questions were what sign material makes sense, what liability concerns should my boss have, and how much do you guys feel is a fair rate for this kind of advertising. I've posted way more info because people asked.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
the daycare is still working great.
he just turned 3 this past T-Giving. He started there when he was 15 months old?
Somewhere around that.
as I said before ... it's at the Jewish Community Center.
I'd guess his "class" is half jewish and half mixed ...
he's one of the mixed!
so far as we know ... only the director os jewish ... none of the "teachers" ...
especially not the lady who he spent his first year with ... Tracy ...
unless she's related to Sammy Davis ... most black chicks around here ain't jewish.
So ... it's a jewish daycare ... in a jewish community center ... but it's not religous.
He goes Mon/Tues/Wed ... they have all sorts of "classes" ... by not going on Fri's he does miss "Judaics" ... by the time he's FT .. sooner or later ... he'll get a good taste of that I hope. The more exposure to various religions the better.
It's a real structured ... firm ... yet loving atmosphere. My wife actually worked there as a temp for one week per an interview process ... at the last minute she was offerent her current job. Nice thing was .. she worked that week with "Tracy" ..
so we went in knowing the staff just a bit better.
The center has an outside play yard and play ground ... plus ... a full size indoor gym.
winter has them running around full speed thru the gym for an hour or so every day.
They bring in an outside "reading/singing" lady. She comes in once a week for "music time" ... had instruments ... teaches them songs ... he's always singing something new that we don't knwo the words to.
That too is structured ... everyone get's their own "mat" ... a colored bath mat ... and they must sit on their mat for the whole time.
Even gym time is regulated .. as we learned at home ... he's always teaching and Cathy the "rules" ... gotta line up ... then .. he yells .. "Everybody ready?" ... then ...
"Take turns" ... run up and kick the ball ... "Wait till Mommy is done, Daddy" ...
"U ready Mommy" ... "OK, Daddy, it's your turn ... be careful" ...
This ... from a 3 year old! He's more structured than we are!
We do "please/thankyou/your welcome" at home .... and they cover it big time at "school". He's still a typical fit throwing maniac 3 year old ... but when he remembers ... it's please and thankU ...
One of his best little friends moved out of the area and was pulled from the school ... we still try to get the kids together ... his Mom said she looked everywhere .. again choose the tops in the area ... and finally saw just how advanced their teaching was compared to other placed. She said her boy is years beyond the other kids in the new place .... it's just set up to be "safe fun and play" ...
while the JCC is safe and fun ... all they do is play ... but it's all educational play.
at home ... one of his favorite games is "story time" ...
I'm still getting up on the rules ... we all get our "mats" ...
he's "Kathy' .. the new instructor ... we pick 3 books ... and he reads 2 of them.
There's a little hand clap wiggle yer fingers deal then a spider runs up yer shirt and tickles your ears ... deal that happens before ya settle down to the actual reading ...
Gotta be worth something if the kids favorite game is reading!
I also like their attitudes with both the kids and parents .... kids aren't ever hit .. or even yelled at. No voices are ever raised. But they are very firm and don't let anything get even close to out of hand.
One little girl bit him on the arm. It was the girls second biting in that week.
The teacher seperated the girl for the day ... then pulled the mother aside when she came in. Told her they'll only give one more chance ... she she'd better ste the kid straight. The Mom was told this the first time .. and the teacher reminded her that they already had this conversation. The mother said it was no big deal ...
so the teacher said ... if the mother doesn't change her attitude first ... that the little girl wouldn't even get that second chance! Made her go over and talk to the little girl right then and there.
This is one of the most expensive daycares around ... it's not like this was some teenage mom ... this was an executive woman driving a $50K SUV. It's nice to know the staff has that freedom. They really care about the kids individually, and the kids as a group.
There have been minor issues ... mostly with the old and new director ...
But seeing as how the teachers tell me and the wife everything, and we're not afraid to walk into the directors office ... things have been fine. We're already known as parents that they better keep informed ... the director, that is ... so everything is going great. The teachers like the fact we'll go fight their battles for them.
There was one minor issue of the slightly older kids in the toddler group being put with the babies in the afternoon ... to sit and get bored ... "we" all decided that the better option was to spend that money we'd been paying and hire the afternoon teachers some help. Now ... if the older tots move anywhere ... it's up to the next age group. Which is what all the parents wanted.
Ya don't want any regressing when it's potty training time!
He'll be there up till kindergarden unless we move out fo the area.
btw .. the other 2 weekdays ... Thurs and Fri .. he's at my Mom and Dad's ... terrorizing grandma and pap pap.
he uses Thursday to catch up on his naps ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff ,
that's great.
I bet your kid is gonna benefit from this his whole life in ways he will never even be aware of.
Stephen
I now remember about 10 years ago I return to a job site after lunch and 3 of my employees are sporting new T-shirts with the logo of the GC I was subbing from. When I approached the GC he threw me one and said that from now on he wants my crew and I to wear his shirts when working on t]his job sites. Balls of brass!
I thanked him for the shirt and told him that when he pays my bills, takes on my liability, provides all the tools and provides me a cabinet shop - we'll wear his shirts. But, until then, I have my own dress code. Then I told my guys that if they ever wear another trade's shirt while under my employ, they will be fired.
I can't beleive I forgot about that earlier. I no longer sub from that GC. Out of sight, out of mind - I guess. Thought of it while insulating. Idle minds...
F
there a dump truck company in town that rents the side of his bodies as rolling billboard. He claimed $100 a month per truck. Has over 60 trucks. So you see " Moms seafood" or "Joes auto repair" on the side of his trucks.
I'd do it for free gas.
or that same value.
what's it cost .... $35/week?
that's $140/month.
either add it into the paycheck ... or just give ya a gas card.
what's to lose? More money is more money.
Vinyl lettering peels off ... hand painted comes off safely with brake fluid ...
don't see how he's "trying" to look bigger than he is either ... your truck is there lettered or not?
me ... I'd do it ... but then I don't live a very complicated life.
Money is money ... the more the better.
U get paid extra for showing up every day ... what's not to like?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
If you choose to, vinyl does come off easy, and today its the way most go. The only problem is that the paint may shadow, UV will be uneven, over time, probably quite a while though.
Magnetic signs look like a fly by night operation, so thats the image you will be portraying.
Thanks, shadowing wouldn't bother me at all. I've had the truck a year and since I work residential I get lots of scratches from trees. I just don't want a billboard if we part ways.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
My boss pays us $4.50 a day to put his signs on our vehicles.
Not a lot but better than nuthing.
I figure if someone sees a sign on my truck and we get more business that can only be good for me.
I rather have a sign on my truck than sit home all winter with no work.
I've had signs on the doors of my truck for 6 years and I can't see any damage.
besides a truck is just another tool and if it can be an advertisement it's no skin off my nose.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Mike,
I would do it in a heartbeat. You're not in the market to compete against him, right? So what's to lose?
Ask him to buy you gift certificates to tool places or help with vehicular expenses. I would try to avoid taxable income but I'm sure you two can find a way to work it out for both of you.
BTW- you own an NPR? And you're an employee? Do you supply a full complement of tools? Do you currently get reimbursed for vehicle expenses? Not trying to be nosy but it's a rare occurrance that an employee has his own NPR.
Jon Blakemore
Yep, I'm an employee and own an NPR. The boss was going to buy a company truck for my use. In fact we drove to the place he bought his NPR on September 12,2001. On the way back to the job he said he was nervous about the investment not knowing how things might work out for the business with the upheaval of the Trade Center attack. I said I understand and he said he would pay all expenses on my van since he would have paid that on a company truck.
Last year I was running out of room in my van and told him it was up to him to get me a box truck or I'd buy one myself and keep the deal we'd had on my van. He didn't buy it so I did.
I also provide a FULL complement of tools. I share but the other guys respect and care for my tools so I'm o.k. with that. However since I was the guy providing so many tools I told the boss I needed a tool allowance. I get a generous allowance and try to spend about the full amount on tools. When we started the allowance I took over the cost of replacement and repair on my tools (at my suggestion) and it has worked out well.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
"Last year I was running out of room in my van and told him it was up to him to get me a box truck or I'd buy one myself and keep the deal we'd had on my van. He didn't buy it so I did... he said he would pay all expenses on my van since he would have paid that on a company truck... " Why would he buy? You already told him YOU would buy. HE just SAVED $20K, maybe more. So, he pays the expenses, when they arise. Big deal. He is still ahead because HE SAVED $20K! He has a VERY sweet deal. HE gets the best years out of the van and when/ if you leave, you'll have a used van that YOU paid for new."It is to my advantage for the company to look bigger."Sure, but if you leave, the co will still have benefitted from that image yet you won't have the credit for it - your name is not on the sign or on the ownership paperwork of the co. It's to your advantage that the company have nice company sweatshirts and jackets with logos. Does that mean you should pay for them?"I also provide a FULL complement of tools. I share but the other guys respect and care for my tools so I'm o.k. with that... I get a generous allowance... I took over the cost of replacement and repair on my tools."I wish I had even one employee like you. This way I would have to invest less capital in MY company. He has you providing the tools for HIS employees and for that YOU get to pay for repairs. All HE has to do is buy you a tool every so often. In business, it is not whether or not you feel foolish doing/ offering something. It's who should have the responsibility for doing or offerring and who steps up to the plate. All my guys have to provide their own hand tools, I provide the power tools. This is basically an industry standard. Your boss can do whatever you allow him to do. That's a private deal. I'm just writing about industry standards. They have been defined by years of experience. No single individual determined them. They evovled. Do a Search on this topic. It is discussed frequently at BTAs I see it, you are not an employee. You are a partner. You are sharing the burden of the co. Empoyees don't/ shouldn't do that.It sounds to me that you have no problem working in a team enviroment, accepting burden/ responsibility and understand what is needed to make the trade side of the business work. Now you need an education regarding the business side. Cool. One way to do this is to PARTNER up with someone who is business oriented (you'll complement each other) or go off on your own and learn from your own mistakes. Each has its benefits and liabilities but you are ready to handle them. Start thinking of Mikey & Assoc.F
Hey Frankie ...
U sound bitter ...
maybe you should quit working for Mikey's boss?
I heard the same BS when I swicthed from self employeed to employee ...
from the other employees ... I was "being used" .. what with me having a van of my own and all the tools I needed ...
Guess what? When time came ... and I went back to self employeed ... guess how I started .... hit the ground running ...
the other guys .... showed just how smart they were by not having any of the tools and transportation they needed.
Nothing wrong with investing in your own future ... get off this guys back.
I guess you missed the part about the boss already paying vehicle costs and tool allowances ... yeah ... the guy's a crook? Everyone out there does that .. sure ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Buckaroo -I never told Mikey to not have his own transportation or tools. I don't think I discouraged investment in his own future.I never called anyone a crook.I am not bitter; though I'm appearantly a bit too passionate for your taste.Everything he has now, he would have anyway, but it would be at his boss's expense. Trucks and tools are part of having a construction co. His boss would have to pony up or loose work and employees. However, in Mikey's zeal to do the job right, he has taken on the boss's burden without a share of the profits. He has shorted himself while the boss has received a bonus - from an employee - to the tune of $20K and counting. I was offering my help and opinion. I have no agenda regarding Mikey's career nor any intention of cluttering these posts or Breaktimer's minds with BS. It is unfortunate that this is your interpretation.Gotta go now. The Daily Show is on now.F
Frankie,
I would say that I agree with you entirely.
Well written post.
Personally---if I was an employee ----I wouldn't be interested in the original posters "deal" at all.
And---as a business owner---I can't imagine in a million years suggesting such a thing to an employee.
just my opinion---but the whole thing doesn't smell right
I can see NO actual advantages to the employee-----but there are very real( read spendable) advantages to the "employer"----who is actually asking the employee to subsidize the "business" substantially-----say 20K plus.
BTW---my hat is off to the original poster. He seems like a pretty bright guy. I suspect that once he starts FULLY thinking things through------he is going to be running his OWN business.
Very best wishes to him,
Stephen
"I can see NO actual advantages to the employee"
uh ... More Money?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Tell him you will gladly drive his sign around town if it comes on a truck he supplies!
Have a good day
Cliffy
Have the Boss buy you a truck with a sign.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
MrT says $4.50 a day. that's about $135 a month. Jeff Buck thought about $140 a month. Brownbagg suggested $100 a month. I'm thinking I'll ask $100 a month. He's generous as it is and I do have a financial interest in helping the business so $100 sounds fair.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
4.50$ a work day.
45$ every two weeks.
WTF is an NPR
National Public Radio??
that seems like a large investment !!!!!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
An NPR is a box truck. Think Ryder truck. My box is15' long and almost 8' tall inside dimensions.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Mikey, you sound like one heck of an employee. If your boss doesn't love you, he should.
Find out what your boss is thinking. Let him make an offer to you, if it souds good, take it. but....explain that your concerned about possible damage to the paint job. Get him to reimburse you in the event that you part company and have to have a new sign painted on it. That will be good for you, because when you leave, you'll probably be starting your own company.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Tell him "Yeah sure ya can, run to the sign maker and get an aluminum magnetic sign made and stick on....." That should take care of everything.
GB
You need to consider a painting charge if you go magnetic cause that'll leave lines.
SCRIBE ONCE CUT ONCE!
As long as you're being compensated to your satisfaction then I say why not use it as you do but you may want to rethink the signage. There are a couple of issues here that no one has brought up and those are the state motor vehicle law and your automobile insurance policy.
In my state a commercially registered vehicle is required to have signage and a contractor should have his state reg # on the vehicle.
If you get stopped by law enforcement and you have a billboard on the side of the truck that says "bobs cheap advertising/carpentry business" and the police find out that the vehicle is actually registered to you personally, some one is going to pay a fine!
Then if you have an accident and your insurance company finds out the truck they were insuring to you personally was actually being used as someone elses business entity your claim may be denied and any subsequent claim against you by others involved in the accident will not be covered and may result in them suing you and taking your personally held property/realestate to cover.
Thats fraud against the insurance company actually. At least doing it without the sign you are not sending up flares. There is good reason why insurance companys charge more for business auto and your boss knows he is getting away with something.
Once that ball gets rolling you will have no choice but to sue good 'ol Bob to help out with damage claims and Bob's lawyers are going to advise him to distance himself from you as far as he can get, and I dont mean just quit the pool league!
Very interesting post. I'm in Washington and any advertising must have contractor's license number. This sign will.
I don't understand why I'd get a ticket for having the sign on my personal vehicle. Taken to the extreme that would apply to bumper stickers that say "lose weight fast, ask me how". or even license plate frames that say "Bob's cheap used cars".
My insurance man knows how I use the truck and I actually do have a commercial policy. Thats the only way to insure it with dually tires on the back and the gvwr it has. I forget the wording but rvs and pickups are ok without a commercial policy. I do know that I'm not supposed to carry hazardous materials.
I'm going to have another talk with my insurance agent to talk these issues over. I just realized I'm not sure what he said about picking up materials for the company.
As a side note I drove without insurance the first day I had the truck because usually your existing insurance covers a vehicle you buy for a short time to give you a chance to add it to the policy. My policy specifically doesn't cover medium duty trucks as it was not a commercial policy.
Thanks to you and everyone else for your input. I appreciate hearing opinions and am considering them all even if don't agree. Everone's post has value to me.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
Just a heads up mikey
You need a USDOT number on your truck. And GVW. And domicile (sp?)
I just got a renewal but it doesn't have any info on the initial registration. Maybe USDOT.gov ?
I have a gvwr on the truck. It's 16000. I've driven it a year without a problem. My understanding is stay under 20001gvwr and I don't need commercial driver's license, don't stop at weigh stations. I'll look at the dot site.Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
No scales 20,000 and under. No CDL under 26,000 GVW.