I have to do a 45 degree miter on a piece of laminate. I know how to over lap the two pieces to make a mirror image of the miter but is there a better way to make the seam tight , other than back filing?
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Bob, I have been working some crazy hours, so I missed this when you posted.
I use a Bosh laminate trimmer with thier under scriber base on it, and have had very good results for years. With the under scriber, you cut the two piece on matching 45 degree angle. I router cut mine with metal straight edge so I don't transfer any imperfections from a wooden straight edge to the laminate. You next glue down one of the pieces. The trick here is to mask off the angle, so you don't get glue in the area of the next piece. After you remove the masking tape, lay the next piece of laminate dry so that it overlaps the first by about 1/4 to 3/8 inch.
The Bosh underscriber has a lip on the bottom of the base that follows the glued down edge. The matching piece rides over the base and is cut by the bit. Any slight imperfection in the first piece are mirror imaged in the second. I use a referance mark on both pieces, so that when I glue the second one, everything matches up.
If you don't have a Bosh laminate kit, I think Dewalt make a similar device for thier laminate trimmer.
Dave
Thanks Dave- I do have a Bosh laminate trimmer so I will give this a shot thanks for all your help. I have no idea what happened to the book that came with the trim kit.Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Dave,
Well I have a Porter cable Laminate kit and just purchased the under scriber base for it. Now I am wondering how you get the laminate trimmer in the very inside corner of the "L" shaped counter? I'm thinking that I will have to mark , clamp and cut the two pieces off of the counter before gluing either piece. Does this make sense?
I've laid laminate before but never had to make a seam like this and I don't want to screw it up.
It seems like a lost art around here because I couldn't find anyone who knew how to do it. Everyone is installing Corian or Granite nowadays.Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
I was (and the term is "was") a certifide solid surface fabricator and I gave up on the material 5yrs ago. I found that it was too heavy, took up too much of my shop space and there were too many low budget, under qualified, butchers out there that really put a cramp on the market. When the MATERIAL cost was from approx. $10-$25sq', I decided that it was not a great value. Laminate was still running below $1.50sq'. When I was doing kitchens, if the homeowner/contractor wanted solid surface, I would steer them towards stone instead. I found that there wasn't too much of a difference between the the real and the faux. If I am on a tight budget, I go with laminate. I will be doing the same on my new house that will be built this summer . My budget will make me squeek when I walk. I would rather build a bigger home than spend it on olings like solid surface. But, If there is any money left in the end, You bet I will be putting in granite in the kitchen and marble in the master bath, even if I wind up fabricating it my self. I do know how, but my back keeps sending me messages against it in the form of pain signals :(
Bob, I build my slabs first and apply the back splash after I have laminated the slab. If the short leg of a top is less than five feet, I dont seam at all. If there is a sink cutout near the short leg of the L (within five feet), I place the seam as close to the center of the cut out as possible. This leaves only a couple of inches of seam visible, since most of it is cut out for the sink. If using particle board for the slab, I also laminate about six inches around the underside of the sink cutout, and prime/seal the edges of the hole when I cut it. I have also, lately, started laminating the under side of the front edge in the area of the sink. Either the particle board I am getting now is more absorbant than I got in the past, or my customers are sloppier. My only call back on any countertop was for swelling of the particle board under the front edge at the sink line. It was in a beauty salone where they used a hand spray hose to wash womens hair in the sinks. Anyway, after replacing that one top, I don't take any more chances, it is cheap and easy to add the extra bottom protection to all my tops .
Dave
I have found that in doing alot of tops for homes over the last 20 yrs is to keep seams away from Dishwashers, sinks and areas that are prone to having moisture or hot objects placed on them. This goes for solid surface material too. I do agree that any top that is less than 5'X12' gets build as one piece and then laminated. Why build a top and have to deal with a seam expanding and contracting when you don't need to. Plus 1sht of 5'X12' laminate, 2 shts of underlayment and adhesive is still less than $100 and the off-fall is usually large enough for another top and some splashes. I have started to not use laminate for splashes any more. There are too many other materials that make your tops a little bit more decorative.
Like you I try to avoid seams when possible. I have never had a seam fail in almost 30 years of building tops, no matter where I place them. I had the beauty salon job problem because they were spraying water on the underside of the counter overhang in front of the sink. The particle board looked like one of those cheap dry sponges that you get at the supermaket. It went from 11/2 inch thick to almost 2 inches.
Just for kicks, I coated a piece of particle board with two coats of contact cement on both sides and all four edges. Left it outside in all kinds of weather for three months. It only swelled up between 1/16 and 1/8 inch, and only in areas that were it was a little starved for glue. That was with the old high VOC contact cement. I haven't tried it with the new lower VOC or water based stuff. Most of the counters that I remove because of moisture damage I find the damage around the sinks, or at the backsplash joint. Almost 100% of those happen because the sinks were just dropped in and then caulked around. No caulking or plumbers putty under the lip. The backsplash failure were not glued or caulked properly. To me a properly built laminate counter top is like a roof. You know it is going to get wet, so you got to think like water to keep it from going where you don't want it.
Other than changing tops as a part of kitchen upgrades or remodels, the other most common complaint was " it looks dull and worn out". Some of them were really worn out after 20+ years of service, but many others were scrubbed to a premature death by abrasive cleanser and bleach. I give a countertop care brochure by WilsonArt with every top I build and or install. Don't know if they are heeded, but I have never replaced one of my own tops if that means anything.
Dave
Dave here is a drawing of the counter I am doing. The only way to get the laminate around the center post is to cut a long 45 degree miter.
I think I will set up a large triangle and clamp the mica and make the cut with an underscriber, then clue and cut the outter edge.
How does that sound?Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
The top slab is already built in place isn't it? For that situation, your long miter method is about the only way to go. I would mock it all up on the floor or large benchtop, dry fitting and scribing in the two pieces one at a time untill I got the perfect fit. Glueing them in place would still be the same except you won't be underscribe cutting the second piece to the first, because of running into that post in the corner. You still want to mask off the glue line at the first miter piece and clean the edges of both before making the final laydown. With those post at the outside corners and in the miter, you have a real challange ahead of you. I would show up on your job with at least one extra sheet of laminate for the inevitable "ah shucks" that job would involve.
Are you laminating the edges, or doing a wood nosing? The drawing looks like a wood nosing/edgeing design to me.
Dave
Yes the counter is in place and and the oak edge is on and prepped for the mica. I only have two pieces of mica so I'll try and do this right the first time. Thanks for all your help...........I'll post pictures later. Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
It worked! I just made a clamping table out of some deck boards, laid the mica on the table square, clamped and cut. The seam turned out great. I'll trim the opening tomorrow. Thanks you mica pro's for all your help. Here's a few shots of the job.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Nice job Bob. If you ever decide to stop building decks, you now have fall back skill to market.
Beware of friends that would not dare ask you for free deck construction. They won't hesitate to ask for help with a counter top. Charge'm, after all you just paid your dues with fret and worry!
dave
You Have no idea how worried I was. I was dancing and singing after the last piece was glued down.I normally won't tackle a job like this but it was my wife's sisters place and I couldn't find anyone to do it. Now I get to do the fun stuff- trim. I like the trim part because it makes everything look so classy.
Thanks again for following along.Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Pro, that came out sweet, but you knew it would, just a different type of deck. ;-)
Thanks Qtrmeg, by the way, have you got any more Meg for that dinosaur yet?
Here's some shots of the trim work I did today. I used a plinth block design to cover up to the edges of the counter.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
...Psssssssssssssssst.... ya forgot to fill the nail holes
Looks nice.View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Hehehehehehehee- I didn't forget to fill them I just forgot my "Onetime" Man is my index finger nice and smooth from caulking though.
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
I also like the return on the casing under the cabinet, I can't stand seeing where it either just dies, or is simply tapered off, screams hack.
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
I only build counter tops when i have to (laminate). I outsource that to a saw shop and still double my price.
JMHO, but this looks like a place to fabricate a pattern first. Take about a 2ft square of scrap lam. cut into two triangles, notch one to fit loosly around post. glue more scraps to fit tight to post. use the other scrap triangle to test pattern. Miter the final pieces first, then apply pattern. The inside corners on the test cut will be rounded cuz the pattern bit is round, undercut the outside corners of the post just that much.
"The devil's in the details."
This looks like a fun job, hope the HO appreciates the effort and research.
SamT
Miterfold it.
Chuck a 45 degree veining bit in your router. Cutting from the back side, set your depth just shy of the surface. (You should be just barely cutting into the color.) Heat the laminate with a heat gun, bend into a 90, and you're set.
Syd
One thing I forgot to mention was keeping the contact cement off of the edge of the laminate. I generally clean both edges with lacquer thinner before I place then. That little bit of glue on the edges prevents a really tight seam. Clean it off and you get a hairline seam that is hard to see in the darker colors. On lighter colors I try to use a solid color core laminate. The phenolic dark edge dissapears alost entirely, but the cost really jumps for material.
dave
This is maybe the "anal" way of doing laminate, but it has worked for me for the past 10+ years and it involves a vacuum press. I press ALL my laminate with a vacuum press, Titebond glue, and a cheap phenolic backer sheet. You can do you edge build ups, laminate them and the do the face and back at the same time. When done cut your miters and drawbolt them together using Titebond glue. You can do the same butting two sheets together. This makes a seam almost as "invisible" as solid surface. Plus when laminating gloss laminate, you don't get the glue surface imperfections telegraphing through. A small oil-less rotary pump(~$125), a vacuum controller from "Vacuum Pressing Systems"($250 I think), a homemade "patio vinyl" bag ($50) glued at the edges and each end clamped with two sticks and 3 spring clamps. All of this would cost less than $400-$500 and then you have another tool ;) You can use it later for an amazing amount of things