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foundation waterproofing opinions wanted

mmoogie | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 2, 2009 03:15am

What are the best foundation dampproofing methods these days?

Going to be having a foundation done shortly and am wondering about dampproofing alternatives to simple asphalt. Client is particularly adamant about dry basement. Upstate NY, 10″ poured concrete, non-ICF (she wants no foam in the house anywhere). Will do good perimeter drainage, but would like to go beyond asphalt coating if there is a benefit to doing so.

Steve

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  1. dovetail97128 | Oct 02, 2009 03:36am | #1

    Best I have ever used.
    WR Grace Bituthene 3000 or an equivalent.

    http://www.na.graceconstruction.com/product.cfm?mode=a&id=173&did=11

    Life is Good
    1. davidmeiland | Oct 02, 2009 04:49pm | #9

      Same recipe here. Footing drains slightly below level of footing, tight lines for downspouts on top. Prime concrete and apply Bituthene. Install Delta-Drain against bituthene. Fill with drain rock.

      1. Hiker | Oct 15, 2009 11:27pm | #15

        David,

        Was it you who installed the bentonite mats on a foundation? If so how did it go, if not sorry.

        Bruce

        1. davidmeiland | Oct 16, 2009 01:37am | #16

          Not recently, but we did that once on a house on a steep slope where about half of the ground floor was below grade. The material was spec'd by some engineer or other, and as far as I can tell it's a good system but not as easy to install and very expensive. The bentonite came in rolls and was installed by impaling it on hooks that stuck out from the wall (yep, holes right thru the membrane). One advantage, you can install it over existing concrete that was backfilled during original construction and then excavated for the current project, and is dirty. I would not attempt to stick bituthene to anything but clean 'crete.

          1. DaveRicheson | Oct 16, 2009 10:05pm | #17

            not as easy to install and very expensive

            You remember a ruogh sq. ft. cost?

            Had a foundation pitching it to me. He was high on his proposal w/o water proffing so I never got any more than his sales pitch.

            Glad to know it works well as a retro for old leaky foundation. Might come in handy.

          2. davidmeiland | Oct 17, 2009 02:18am | #18

            The job was done in about 2002, and I have long since forgotten what it cost.

          3. DaveRicheson | Oct 19, 2009 01:18pm | #19

            With me ,sometimes, it could have been last week.

            Senior moments rule :-)

  2. dovetail97128 | Oct 02, 2009 03:50am | #2

    Forgot to add that I use a drain mat and protection board as well

    Drain mat: Grace Hydroduct

    Protection board: PC2 Meadows protection board

    Not inexpensive but zero leaks in high water table areas and I have used some of this stuff for over 20 years.

    Life is Good
    1. User avater
      mmoogie | Oct 02, 2009 06:00am | #3

      What is the function of the drain mat and protection board? Do they go on top of the Grace? How expensive is this system?Can it be applied to an existing section of foundation that I will be excavating around?Steve

      Edited 10/1/2009 11:01 pm by mmoogie

      1. dovetail97128 | Oct 02, 2009 07:57am | #5

        Drain mat allows water to flow down the side of the foundation wall to the footing drain.
        Protection board will help keep sharp edged back fill material from cutting the Grace Bituthene, also helps keep "fines" out of the drain mat.
        Bituthene, then drain mat , then protection board.
        If you have clean , round drain rock and fill at least 12" wide by height of foundation wall with it then you can dispense with the drain mat and protection board.
        Product cost on my last job:
        Bituthene 2 sq. roll ( includes primer for concrete wall) $163 roll
        Hydroduct 2 sq. roll $160 roll
        Protection board 32 sq. ft. (4'x 8'x 1/8") $14.50
        Takes 2 laborers to apply the Bituthene as it is a peel and stick product. I didn't include cost for labor. Yes you can apply it to a previously poured or block wall. Clean it well first.
        Like I said , not inexpensive, but best I have found. There are competitive products that are copy cats.. most probably work just fine, matter of best pricing.

        Life is Good

  3. migraine | Oct 02, 2009 07:18am | #4

    Try looking into Miradrain.  it is a great product, epecially when used in conjucntion with other sealants and/or rubber membranes

    1. dovetail97128 | Oct 02, 2009 08:01am | #6

      Miradrain is a good product, I have used it before. I used the Grace product because the supplier had it in stock , same concept .
      Life is Good

      1. migraine | Oct 02, 2009 08:13pm | #11

        miradrain is a product that has a plastic material waffle pattern that is stamped into the plastic to keep a drainage barrier against the wall.  The plastic is then covered in a  fabric to keep silt deposits from building up.. 

        This whole process is laid against the wall and drains into a french drain system at the base of the footing.

         http://www.triumphgeo.com/products/miradri.html

        View Image

  4. Piffin | Oct 02, 2009 02:22pm | #7

    Waddyawant, opinions, or a dry basement?

    ;)

    Some thing I have seen a few times at trade shows is a green rubber sprayed on in place. Can't recal the name of it.

    Back in 03/04 we had a basement in wet ground. When I excavated, the uphill side of the hole walls was a steady running spring of water from about 30" up the bank, above the footer location. I'm doing some more work on that house this week. Still dry as a bone. You might find that thread titled "Where's the Cannonball?" with search.

    For that one, I used an out fit that sprayed a black bituminous product that cured quickly, but had some flex to it. They gave a long live warrantee. The install included a dimple mat drainage sheet. I used Formadrain at the footers and clean stone fill

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. DaveRicheson | Oct 02, 2009 04:41pm | #8

      http://www.rubrwallbc.com/

      I just had my foundation wall done with it.

      Good stuff. Suppose to last 100+ years

      My cost was $1.69/sq.ft. with 1" rigid foam applied over it. (R-7 exterior foundation is required by local code)

      One cavete is that the product doesn't like sunlight. Needs to covered or backfilled asap. 

    2. User avater
      mmoogie | Oct 10, 2009 02:46am | #12

      What the local yard has in stock here is a peel-and-stick called subseal 40 that my engineer recommends. The dimple mat they carry is Platon by Certainteed. The yard also informs me that they know the guy who is doing my foundation (whom I've not used before, but comes highly recommended) is an old-schooler who looks down his nose at these fancy new products and swears by asphalt. I'll probably have to twist his arm to use these products.Steve

  5. User avater
    SamT | Oct 02, 2009 05:38pm | #10

    I used the system Dovetail talked about.

    Here's some pics

     

    View Image

    Perimiter drain on bottom. You can see its' cleanout at the end.

     

    View Image

    Here's the gravel form. Whack the Hinge sides of the folding standoffs firmly with a big hammer. A framer will bounce!

    I used two 10' 2x12's with three 10 1/2" standoffs each. Two cheap hinges per standoff. Lasted till the end. Never use em again.

    View Image

    The Supervisor checking out how to use 'em.

    Lay filter fabric down, set G-forms on it, throw slack over and in the G-forms. Backfill and compact a lift almost to the end of the second form. Remove and reset forms. Repeat around the perimiter. Fill resulting trench with Drainage gravel. Clean 3/4" to clean 1 1/4". Repeat to grade.

    I topped the gravel with filter fabrtic 6" from grade and finished with 3/4 clean gravel so I wouldn't have to weed eat next to the house. You can top with sod or whatever.

    SamT
    A Pragmatic Classical Liberal, aka Libertarian.

    I'm always right!
    Except when I'm not.

  6. MikeSmith | Oct 10, 2009 05:01am | #13

    steve... here's my strategy... successful for 30 years...

    1... you can't build a boat...it's a foundation... there will be opportunities  for a leak... so assume it will leak and redirect the leak

    2... even if it doesn't leak... a rising watertable can defeat the waterproofing.... so again ... redirect the water

    3... if you pour with a footing... best thing to do is pour the footing on a sub-footing of crushed stone... so water  can run under the footing instead of the footing acting as a dam..

    4... fill  the footing area with crushed stone and run a 4"perf-pipe  around the interior of the footing.... all leading either to a drain-to-daylight.... or a sump

    5 ....put poly or foam against the inside of the wall and make sure there is a continuous path so any water that makes it thru the wall will flow down and into the drain field

    6...  the strategy is the same as when developing a flashing strategy... think like a drop of water.. and makes sure you figure about all the things BESIDES gravity that can make water by-pass your flashing system ( capillary action.... negative pressure.... wind driven water, etc )

     

    that's the belt... i forgot the suspenders..

    we do all poured concrete foundations... so we snap the ties below the surface ( don't let any bozos  cut the ties ... they are designed to SNAP below the surface..

    fill the holes with roofing cment... then one good coat of asphalt based  foundation coat

    Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore



    Edited 10/9/2009 10:06 pm ET by MikeSmith

    1. DaveRicheson | Oct 15, 2009 10:26pm | #14

      3... if you pour with a footing... best thing to do is pour the footing on a sub-footing of crushed stone... so water  can run under the footing instead of the footing acting as a dam..

      I use to do that two but my BI turned down the last one. Said our 06 code changes doesn't alow it anymore. With a 4" gravel infill beneath the slab and drain to daylight or sump pump, you have a heck of a good drainage plane IMO.

      I once did a wet basement repair by simply drilling releif holes in the foundation wall just below the level of the slab on a walkout. About 8, 1" holes along a 60' wall drained into a gravel bed and drain tile to daylight outside. HO says that my fix will drain for a week after a good soaking rain and he gets no more water coming up through the slab perimeter.

       

  7. User avater
    BossHog | Oct 19, 2009 01:47pm | #20

    I used a foundation wrap once rather than a spray on product and was very happy with it:

    http://www.cosella-dorken.com/

    When you were in the basement after installation it didn't have the same damp, cool feel that most basements have. It was noticeably drier. If I ever build another house that stuff is going on it.

    1. User avater
      mmoogie | Oct 19, 2009 02:27pm | #21

      Going to go with asphalt covered with Certaintied Platon HDPE drainage membrane because it's what's available locally. Plus aggressive bed of stone. My foundation guy doesn't like the peel and sticks. Particularly this time of year he says they just won't stick.Steve

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Oct 19, 2009 09:07pm | #22

        Glad ya picked something out, but - Just for ther record - Dorken isn't a peel 'n stick. It's a dimpled plastic roll.
        The difference between marriage and prison is that at least prisoners occasionally get to finish a sentence.

        1. User avater
          mmoogie | Oct 20, 2009 06:18am | #23

          I clicked through to your link and saw that. The certainteed product is the same concept...waffled HDPE sheet. It was my engineer and someone else at the beginning of this thread (dovetail?) who was recommending the peel and sticks.Steve

          1. dovetail97128 | Oct 20, 2009 08:01am | #24

            Yea I said peel and sticks.
            They are my preference. The drainage planes are just that , they do not prevent moisture from entering the concrete, they allow a drainage channel to keep excess water from building up against the walls. Used properly and installed properly they will replace a rock curtain the depth of the foundation.
            Having said that , peel and sticks do require clean concrete as do rolled on or spray applied barriers. One other option is cross linked polyethylene ( ie.: TU-TUFF ) hang a sheet from the sill plate and then use the drainage plane to keep water flowing past it.
            Life is Good

          2. User avater
            Metaxa | Oct 20, 2009 10:15am | #25

            Back a fair ways we had a piece of waterfront with an existing boathouse. Now (and then, actually) you can't build right on the water (ocean) but old stuff you could keep in repair. No additions, no tear down and rebuild.We wanted to turn the boat house into a bunkie, a sleeper cabin for visitors but it was wet, wet, wet. All the rain, run off and ground water was almost home by the time it hit the back side of that boathouse.I didn't have as much money as I thought I did either...so we used the black goop, pressed heavy poly onto that and another layer of black goop. Drains as per and once it got into them they went around the back and down both sides exiting onto the beach.Sorry for the length here...visited the new owners a bit ago and they had occasion to dig it up again for another under the radar improvement (add running water and improve the electric) and found the whole thing intact and still working well. They did what they did and added the dimpled stuff and back filled.Except for digging the rock and whatnot out of the way it was fast, it sure was cheap and it worked well and I'd do it again if I was on my own home, especially with the dimpled overlay stuff available today.

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