Archy shows on drawings, and clients want, no-jack corners. What I mean is this: windows come to the corner with their R.O. sides right at the corner post. A plan of a corner is attached. What is your favorite way of doing this?
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Simpson has header hangers. I think what you need is called HH6.
Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
The Simpson header hangers would have to overlap each other for that to work.Al Gore smoking marijuana. Now if that doesn't prove to young people that drugs aren't cool, nothing will. [Jay Leno]
I thought about using those, and whacking off the interfering parts, but it looks as if that would greatly compromise the resulting hanger's efficiency.
It is easier to understand how there is an interference when you look at the hanger. With another header coming into the corner, right there in the "F4" direction, the part of the hanger that applies to the face of the jack would need to be whacked.
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I wonder if you could use a solid piece of glulam, and miter the corners of it over the corner post.I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president. [Hillary Clinton]
Why would a glulam be necessary? I have always handled situations similar to this with butt joints over a corner post, favoring the side that will have a higher load.
Jon Blakemore
I never said it was necessary - It was just a thought.We're kind of like the Simpsons on crack. [Axel Rose]
I guess I should have gotten the catalog from the truck and looked at the picture. I also wouldn't cut up the hanger. My next thought is a HUC66. (I still didn't look at the catalog).Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
A simpson concealed flange (special order) hanger would work with a corner post.
Note that a couple of manufacturers sell windows designed for corners -- with no corner post. If you can locate the installation instructions for one of those then it might give you some ideas.
In fact, since you have two windows on each side it might make the most sense to use a single header across both, so that you're cantilevering the ends. You could still have the corner post, but wouldn't have to worry about it carrying the entire load.
It's likely to be some funky interior trim detail going on there when the extension jambs run into each other unless an extra half inch is allowed
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Sets going into corners are bought without extensions, and we do our own. Here is one corner in my house. I cannot remember how we framed the 5-1/2" corner, but I know it was done at 5.5. I recall the framer screwing up once before getting it right, though. I wanted to plan ahead for the next one.
I'm just a DIYer but have a Simpson catalogue handy. Check out the RTCH connector. Would that work?
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You can frame the detail without any jacks or metal connectors. It's the trick used to frame the seamless glass outside corner windows. Run a very long headers beneath the top plates of the walls back 3x the distance from the inside edge of the window RO to the outside corner. Essentially you'll be framing in the wall with a bunch of 'studs' cut to 'jack' length. The load of the floor or roof (or wall in the case of a gable end) will resist the uplift as the headers centelever over the last jack. Your corner post can serve as additional suppport but would be unnecessary structurally.
Some framers are scared of this detail but it's been used for a hundred years or more (I've torn apart some old baloon framed buildings using the system - though it was a cantelevered let-in ledger rather than a header supporting the corner.)
You may want to get some engineering on the detail if you are in a wind or siesmic area.
MG
You are right. A lot of these ones here have stud walls with a beam for the top plate, rim joist above, and header all rolled into one. Sometimes as big as 12 x 12 with ust 2x4 studs under it, and continuous for as much as fourty feet, but then they never worried about headers, just a 2x4 turned on the flat.
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I would frame the outside of the corner with a 4" full stud and a 2 1/2" full stud. I would frame the inside with jack studs 5 1/2" and 4". I would leave the center hollow and fill (after wiring) with insulation. The header would bear on the jack studs.
3/8" angle iron brackets and 4x6 headers. Inset the bottom ones into the headers and the post. Off set the bolt holes into the post, ie, one pair of brackets has one set of holes 3/4" from corner, the other, 1 1/4". 3/8"x3" lag screws. The inset on the bottom brackets offsets them from the top ones.
SamT
Thanks for all the input, folks.
The house to be built has seven of these window-corners, all with the following characteristics:
Windows each side of the corner are 29" R.O. width
All have roof load coming down from above. No upper floor.
All have hip truss or hip rafter bearing on post
All have small tributary roof load transferred down through single hip jack truss or hip jack rafter above header.
I sketched out a model of SchellingM's method of studs and jacks, but ended up with a hollow-core post I would have to fill with insulation as I built it.
I might try a solid post, cut as shown, and fit single 2x10 headers to the post, with 2x6 sub-headers beveled and going into bevel-cut seat notches. I was thinking of doing the "timber" work while the foundation is being finished up.
Rather than using a solid-sawn 6x6 (expensive and rare), I might make up post stock from 3 2x6s and one piece 1" x 5.5 resawn and planed down from a 2x6. Glues and nails everywhere, but glue only on the section I'll make the cuts on.
Why not just a 4x4 king stud in the outside of the corner, with one jack stud of 2x6, the other of 2x4. That would yield a 5"x5" corner, so shim the jack studs away from the king stud post with continuous 1/2" plywood.
The header doesn't need to be structural across its full 5-1/2" depth, so just consider the outer 3-1/2" structural. One header will be done typically, with all members (assuming built-up headers) extending to the king stud. On the other header, cut the inside member of the built up header 2" short, so its end aligns with the jack stud (not bearing on it). The remaining 3-1/2" depth of this header would extend to the king stud.
Better yet, just use headers 3" deep with 2-1/2" insulation. Refer to the headers article in FH a few issues back.
Or- offset the headers from each other vertically. One of the smartest framing tips I ever learned at this forum is to place all headers directly under the plates, with cripple studs below instead of above the header. If you have the room, one header could be under the plate, the other above the window. That way they wouldn't interfere with each other.
Not much point in worrying about insulating the corner, given the windows on each side.
I thought this through some more, and came up with what I think is the final solution.
While I love timberframe work, I though my idea foolish of doing that notching in solid timbers. Expensive wood, and way too much labor.
And Pif, I know we have done 5.5x5.5 before in corners, but I think we crowded the windows in their openings, tight to the side away from the corner, in order to trim out the way we wanted. This time we will do it as a 6x6 corner, that assembles up with a 1/2 x 1/2 "rebate" in the inside corner. We'll center the windows, use factory-applied jamb extenders, and align the corner units carefully keeping trim in mind. The trim element in the corner where the extension jambs will almost kiss, is a single 3/4 x 3/4 strip.
Thanks to Mike Smith for his info on stress-skin plywood box headers. My design here uses them, with one at a reduced thickness, to simplify parts cutting and assembly. The pic shown here doesn't show the inside face skins of 1/2" ply . . . they will glue and nail on after insulation goes in.
's been a good thought provoking discussion on this one
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wat detail did the archy give?
I'd be asking for a real details detail ...
let them do the work ...
then decide if it'll fly.
architects and engineers ... they're all smarter than us anyways ... just ask them!
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Jeff cuts, like a Buck, to the quick.
Again.
SamT