I finished a set of circular stairs yesterday. I’ll post the pics here, but the explanation is at JLC http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=222941#post222941
| Kyle painting the plywood with glue |
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| laminating the stringer |
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| routering |
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| Finished inside stringer |
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| Top |
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| From the kitchen |
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| From the back |
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| Finished Stair |
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Replies
Tim
I found your method very interesting, not odd, just interesting! I've always built mine in a shop with a mock up of the wall so to see them done on site is unusual to me.
I've only been involved in building about 1/2 dozen curved stairways so I'm no Stan Foster but it looks like you got something there.
How many laminates did you make, dont know if you said or not, didnt see it.
I only read some of the posts on JLC and I see that some had concerns about the strength of the stairs. You've been building for sometime so I'd assume your common sense was probably a good enough indicator of the reliability of them!
They look good and make sure you post some finish results as well.
Doug
It is an interesting method. I got it from John Kirkpatrick and Jed Dixon.
They are pretty solid. To get 3 1/2" stringers, we laminated 14 layers of 1/4" ply glued & stapled, then nailed.
Excellent work Tim. Thanks for posting the pics!
blue
Really nice! I am surprised you can bend even 1/4 inch plywood and get a good glue bond. CLAMPS????
The ply had no problem bending. We just worked it in and stapled it. John suggested 2 guys and he was right.
That looks great.
I wish this was on here a week ago- I just did a short run of circular stairs, in a kind of similar fashion. It's just the bottom 5 stairs though, so they'll just stay connected to the floor, like yours were before you cut the studs out.
It sounds like the stairs are plenty strong with 3 1/2" stringers, but it still seems like the grain orientation in the plywood is a potential weakness- It would be nice to have 1/4" LVLs or something to glue up with all the grain oriented in the proper axis.
zak
"so it goes"
Tim: Nice work. Just proves theres more than one way to skin a cat...<G>.
Stan
Very nice work they look strong to me .unless there is a circus up stairs .then the elephants should take the elevator.
beautifull stairs!!!!I hope I get to try your method soon, love it man,also thanx for the heads up on jlc site!
Nice work!
Got to ask,is that a diamond back tool belt?
Mines blue and about 6yrs old still in great shape.
They were gone for a while but there back now ToolBelts.com
MikeL
Yup, those are Diamondbacks I have a brand new set, but they are too nice to use
:-)
Thanks Tim for posting that. Great job! I did one similar many years back, only I built each tread like a little wall, top plate, bottom plate, stud at each end. And I didn't cut the wall out, but left it. Your system is more efficient, and nicer looking because of being freestanding.
I didn't really visualize your process until I saw this pic:
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Then it all came together for me.
One question: I didn't see any glue around in the pic where you're building the sections. Do you think it would have affected the deflection any if each section was glued at the time it was built?
Thanks again for a very informative thread!
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
I think if you look closly in that pix. you postedyou will see glue squeeze out between the step and the stud , specifically the one thenail gun is placed on.
I was wondering about your comments on the grain orientaion on these stairs. Could you elaborate on that a little more ? I have built some like these a few times, and I once tried to use 1/2" cd plywood ripped diagonally but found that to be weaker considering overall width was 4' instead of 8' when ripped parallel to the grain.Thanks,
John
Well, it's just that a beam or stringer is stronger when the grain is running the long way, spanning the opening. That way, you're putting the grain in tension and compression, and using wood to your mechanical advantage. If you run it the other way, the wood grain is directly in shear, and softwoods aren't very strong that way.
Thus, glulams, LVLs, paralams, and other engineered wood runs all the grain the same way. That would be great for curved stringers too, except that it's so time consuming to make the thin plies for a custom stringer (resawing 2x12s). When you make a stairway like Tim did, you're basically making your own LVL, with half of the wood oriented wrong. Because the only available thin lumber is plywood, and half the plies in plywood run the wrong way.
zak
"so it goes"
3 ply = 66% of the grain runs longitudinally. 5 ply = 60%.
7" of 5 ply X 60% = 4 1/4" of "correct" grain.
7" of anything should work.
Me thinks thou dost protest unneededly.
SamT
Like I said, 3 1/2" of stringer sounds like plenty of plywood, even with almost half of the grain running the wrong way. Still would be nice to have parallel grain, but I don't actually expect to get my way.zak
"so it goes"
Are you talking about the pic you put in your post? I was using construction adhesive on every connection on the framing, and then carpenters glue painted on when we skinned the stairs.
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I was using construction adhesive on every connection on the framing
Well, that answers it then! I didn't see any glue in the pic of fabricating the riser sections on the ground, which is what I was wondering about. (the picture in my post was the turning point that finally keyed me into the construction process). I'm surprised with all joints glued that there was any deflection at all.
Thanks for the picture essay - be sure to post some pics of the finished stairs!"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
I like the method!
I'm going to steal it!
yup!!
Edited 6/12/2006 2:43 pm ET by Big Lou in Chicago
I was showing someone your stair system or building style and he told me it looks like the type he saw in a Sante Fe New Mexico chapel....... They have been trying to figure out how the builder of the stairs completed the job. The builder was never found. Check out this link. http://www.lorettochapel.com/stair.html
edited to add, if you look in the history of the chapel, they have a picture of the choir all standing on the stair case. Probably about fifty people. The stair case is completely un-supported!! Other than the landing and the loft. No nails...only wood pegs.
Semper Fi
Edited 6/17/2006 10:11 am ET by Jarhead
Edited 6/17/2006 10:13 am ET by Jarhead
WOW!
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SamT
WOW
That is what I said when I first saw the pic. Thanks for the help on the pic. Looks better than the link. What I found interesting was the history of the building of the stairs and the church. Can you imagine doing this all by hand tools? Supposedly tools brought in by on a mule!!
Semper Fi
That is pretty stinkin' sweet.
Tim thats awesome. I found myself sitting here mumbling "Holy Cow" over and over. Impressive. It might be just a different way to skin a cat to some, but its a whole new animal to me. First time I ever thought framing looked fun.
I've been doing a whole heap of SU mockups of stairs of late. I think I'm going to figure out how to model that just because it would be a challenge.
Thanks for sharing.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
RW,
Thanks for the comments. This is as far as I got with SU http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7154567/145087287.jpg well, I got a little farther, but didn't upload it.
When I was framing I used much the same technique. My framer uses the method Huck posted, but after lamination he cuts out the framing. It works, but as Huck posted...your method seems better. I can not convience him to try your (our) method. He is a hard headed apache / mexican.
My framer built the pictured turnback floating stairs in the pics with the "Huck" method.
Edited 6/17/2006 11:39 pm ET by txlandlord
If you are in TX, John Kirkpatrick is your man. He posted earlier in this thread, but he gave me the step by step on this stairway (pun in tended) :-)
Thanks for the comments and your pictures, that is so cool. I think stair guys are my new heros
sumtin like dat?
I think drawing like you build isnt the way SU wants to do it, piece by piece. Lay the arcs out on the ground and PP the face up. To the side, draw the straight run, and PP it sideways. Then intersect and clean. Pretty quick. But it took me a second try to figure that out.
Course the cool thing is, you can use SU to figure out the dimensions ahead of time. Gotta like that."Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
I like this thread. Just thought I'd give it a bump up for the heck of it."he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
While we were on vacation, the house was drywalled and I've got a few pics of the stairs.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/177258924.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/177258917.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/177258915.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/177258913.jpg
Just stunning!
Forrest
hey, pretty cool , tim
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btw..... can i have your autograph, you're getting to be as published as Mike GuertinMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike. Coming from you that is a very big compliment for me. Thank you very much.
Wait until next months JLC. Some of your rakewall pics inspired me :-)
Pretty cool, your a couple a steps away from being a well rounded craftsman. Looking forward to seeing more of your nice work.