Replies

1. 
   RobKress | Sep 01, 2003 05:47am | #1

   soffit framing definitely.  Rough stairs is hard to call because so many times I have seen the final finish stairs installed early and then get really "roughed up".  In my world, if they are true rough stairs, like the kind that are thrown together from scrap 2x dimensional stock for the labors to beat up as they go up and down and get torn out when the real stairs show up, then that should be part of the framing contract.

   Rob Kress

2. 
   Piffin | Sep 01, 2003 05:47am | #2

   Curious.

   Is this the same framer you were bragging on a year ago?

   I consider it part of the framing, yes. The inspector is likely to also. How can you pass a frame inspection with no stairs in place and no fireblocking for the soffit to wall connection if it doesn't exist yet?

   But key here is whether it was in the plans and the contract.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   Joe_Fusco | Sep 01, 2003 06:29pm | #3

   Mr. Micro,

   A good rule of thumb is if you need to make it out of 2 x material then it can be considered the framers job.

   View Image
   
4. 
   DanMorrison | Sep 01, 2003 06:34pm | #4

   When I was framing, yes, we alsway framed the stairs and any soffits.

   Dan Morrison
   One happy assistant editor
5. 
   andybuildz | Sep 01, 2003 06:51pm | #5

   Any framing I ever did or had done the soffets were a definate.

   Drop ceiling, no way and what do you mean by "rough stairs"?

   We've put in temporary stairs just to get up and down and so as not to ruin the real stairs. I personally don't consider the stairs as part of the framing but it should be whatever you and or the town specifies as the framing.

   In my town when the framing inspection is done, stairs aren't part of it, just the appropriate openings are.

   Be well

           andy

    

    

   A soul might say," I dropped by to play at being an ego.....and lo and behold I identified with my ego and forgot I was a soul!"

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

6. 
   Framer | Sep 01, 2003 07:22pm | #6

   Do you consider rough stairs and dropped ceiling and soffit framing as part of the framing scope?  My guy says nope, no way, that stuff is "finish" and not done as part of the framing.

   As a Framer it is part part of the Framing Scope, if it is there on the scope of work. 

   Now as Piffin says. 

   I consider it part of the framing, yes. The inspector is likely to also. How can you pass a frame inspection with no stairs in place and no fireblocking for the soffit to wall connection if it doesn't exist yet?

   But key here is whether it was in the plans and the contract.

   That is the KEY  to this question. Was it all on the plans?

   Most of the houses and additions that I frame we don't build soffits over kitchen cabinets any more. I still ask the question anyway befor I price the job.

   For example, I'm doing a job right now where the plans called for in the new kitchen 14' x 25' for the ceiling to be 8' with no soffits above the cabinets. Now the GC and I suggested a Tray ceiling with the highest part at 10'. I suggested to frame a level soffit at first minimum 2' and then start the tray so that they can put lighting in. Homeowner loves the tray idea but no level soffit. We're still framinmg the tray. It is and extra but even if we just raised the ceiling and they wanted a soffit above the cabinets the Framer would have to do it. Now at the bottom of the tray I have to put Fire Blocks.

   Another example is if you have to box around duct work. Most of the time we don't unless we frame out the basement.  If it's not on the plans we don'tr figure for it. There's some situations where hv/ac guy has to run a trunk line down a ceiling do to poor architectual planning and we have to go back and box around that. It is an extra. 

   Above the tub and stall showers, sometimes we drop a ceiling and sometimes we leave it alone but regardless it's the framers job.

   It also depends on the relationship you have with your Framer. Some GC's don't know wether or not if they're going to put soffits or drop the ceilings or any other changes that might occur, so they say when we make a decision, either they will do it with their guys or I can come back and do it.

   Temporary stairs, we build them, how long can it take to do that........ unless he doesn't know how to cut stairs.

   Is this framer the same guy that you had to tell what the H.A.P. cut was on a hip roof that you were doing a few months ago?

   Joe Carola 

7. 
   TommyB12 | Sep 01, 2003 08:02pm | #7

   The important question is do you consider rough stairs and dropped ceiling and soffit framing as part of the framing scope?

   And if you do, was it on the print?  How was the framers quote worded?  If it was not on the print, I would consider it an extra.

   Around here, stairs are 99% prefab.  We generally set them, but its pulling teeth to get the gc to have them before we punchout.  If I got to come back for any of this stuff, I specify in my quote that there will be additional charges.

   I always bid and frame to plan.  I can't guess at what you or the homeowner might have in mind and pad my bid accordingly. 

   Now, if your framer is balking, and none of this was spelled out,  either get out your wallet or your toolbelt and take care of it.

   You certainly don't have to do business with the guy again.

   I always got a kick out of how when gc's have an oversight, the expect me to do things for nothing that they can't or won't do themselves.  Alot of the gc's I have framed for in the past were framers themselves at one time, and ought to know the potential problems. 

   Tom

   I'm here to help the humans.