Our framers, who are young and inexperienced, have managed to either hang our windows crooked or else at a different height than the windows along side. They’ve been out once to fix this problem, but since they don’t seem to know how to use a level, and don’t seem to see any reason to get all the windows at the same height I’ve pretty much given up on them.
Our sider is planning on hanging them (the windows, not the framers) as they go, but I sort of feel that the framers should reimburse me for the extra it will cost. Am I wrong to think they should have been able to hang the darned things right the first time? Shouldn’t someone have introduced them to shims and a level before they got to my house?
Replies
Just make sure that the next person who touches your windows knows the whys and wherefors of flashing.
Methinks that if the "framers" do not even understand something as elementary as getting the windows inline, then they are completely out of their depth regarding flashing.
I would imagine that the siding guy, having caught the window issue and had the integrity to point it out to them and offered to redo them correctly will most likely also have some knowledge of flashing. But then again I could be wrong. I've seen too many seemingly intelligent people who just can't seem to grasp the concept of "water runs downhill" to just blindly trust anyone anymore." If I were a carpenter"
"Methinks that if the "framers" do not even understand something as elementary as getting the windows inline, then they are completely out of their depth regarding flashing."Just curious as to what the framer has to do with the flashing?Joe Carola
Edited 10/14/2005 7:19 pm ET by Framer
Where I'm from the framers install all tyvek and window wrap 'n stuff" If I were a carpenter"
Sounds good to me.Joe Carola
If you haven't fully paid the framers yet then you can easily make 'adjustments' in price to suit. And I agree with Ralph, make sure flashing is done correctly before siding goes on.
"Shouldn't someone have introduced them to shims and a level before they got to my house"
The GC.
Not all windows need to be shimmed. Some vinyl windows that are hung from flanges do not. That said, I think you should tell the framer what your plans are, and give him another chance to fix it, even if his guys have to be babysat during the process. Sometimes being a builder includes babysitting... At the very least, they are responsible to install the windows per manf instructions. As someone else said, I'd be even more concerned about flashing as getting the windows exactly plumb. If they are banked together, you do have get them lined up right (which pretty much means plumb too. Otherwise, when trimmed out (especially inside) it will look like cr@p.
Take a lot of pictures: overviews, close ups of level bubbles, etc.
Lisa,
A few things to consider. First of all, does your contract allow you to "Adjust" the price without making some other attempt to resolve the problem?
Second, was it you who identified the problem or your sider? The reason I ask is that there is a lot of badmouthing of framers by people who have no idea what they do or how important a good framer really is. The Mason and Framer set the tone for the rest of the house. Period! Make sure your sider isn't just looking to make a few extra bucks on this. Wouldn't be the first time.
Third. WHile there is no excuse for not getting windows set at the same height as ones right next to them, Crooked, Out of Plumb and out of Square are another story. What kind of windows? Assuming that the foundation is relativly level, and the first floor is relativly level and that the guy running the saw cut all of the window framing components consitantly and correctly, Most of the windows should slide right onto the framing and require little shimming to make "Level". Now the hard part. Plumb Square or working, How would ya like them? Ever set a Kolbe and Kolbe or other such window? Once the sill is level, the window should be squared ( I square off of the inside to eliminate the chance of being off because of sloppily applied brick mould) in the opening so that it operates correctly. In theory, square off of a level sill should be plumb or relatively close. Not always. I've set whole houses of windows where, when squared off of a level sill, the window was often as far as 1/2" out of plumb. When moved to plumb, the window was so far out of square, it wouldn't operate.
Try this. Make sure the sills are level. Next, how do they operate? Are the sashes square in the frame? do they close consitantly? do the locks work? Pull the top sashe down a few inches and the bottom one up a few. does the space between the top rail of the bottom sash and the bottom rail of the top sash look even? does it measure even?
If the Windows really are that bad then you need to point it out specifically to the framer and explain that if they are not fixed properly you intend to hold money back to pay the sider to correct the problem. If not, depending on the state, you may still have to pay him in full.
I'm not saying your wrong. But I am encouraging further investigation if you haven't already done so before you hold back money.
Excellent post Robert. That was real world building experience at it's best.
If you're experiencing this issue with windows, then you should be thinking ahead to the rough openings for all of your doors. Someone with experience should go through the house and be sure that the RO's are all the correct height and width, and reasonably plumb in two planes.
Bruce
The High Desert Group LLC
"Fine homes done right, one at a time"
Bruce,
It's funny you should mention door openings. I just measured them all yesterday, and I'm still shaking my head over the unique sizes they managed to frame.
Lisa
Get the camera out. We want to see some pictures!The men may be the head of the house, but the women are the neck and they can turn the head anyway they want.
I hadn`t realized blueyedevil was in yer neck-o-the-wood.
{G,D & R}
FREE NEWF
and SPHERE
and anyone else ya got in there, dammit!!
One good thing that comes out of this is that you'll have the same contractor hang and flash the windows, and do the siding. That way if anything leaks, there's only one phone number you have to call, he can't point fingers at anybody else.
-- J.S.