As I inch closer to finishing my basement tomorrow, I have a couple of questions concerning securing the metal studs and tracks. What is the best way to secure the floor plate to the concrete. My friend has a ram set which I know will be faster. However, I am concerned about the floor cracking, and the fact that it is so permanent. If I make a mistake, it will be near impossible to remove the track. My other option is to drill into the masonry and then screw. I am sure that this will be very time consuming. I am open to all suggestions and advice.
The other question that I have concerns securing the studs. I was wondering how to screw the stud into the tracks on the far side (the side against the masonry ). I’ve heard that some people only screw in the front part of the stud.
Thanks.
Replies
wolf. You can shoot the track to the floor. Stay away from the edge and a good gun will not often crack the slab, and then usually only chip it up (not crack all the way through). You can drill and tapcon the plate to the floor. You bet slower, but an option. Do your layout with a long level or a plumb bob and make it right before you secure. If dropping the ceiling, you can run the top plates strong, rest doesn't get seen. I screw my track to stud with the low profile tapping screw made for 'em. Sort of a washer head, just a bit lower profile than the black tech screw. I wouldn't use an ordinary dw screw. You got a lot of good info from the last post, did you study up on any of the methods mentioned or are you just taking the one with the most agreement? This like other stuff is local variation may apply. Here's a representative sample of how I frame with metal. I think the best tip I can give you is a couple of square lines clear sealed so you cant' wash em away on that basement floor. Makes layout so much more right when you get done.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin, Thanks for the info. I have been studying up on this and reading all of the posts. I also found a simple two page general instruction page on the Georgia Pacific web site for installing metal studs. I haven't had a chance to check out our local library yet. I am leaning toward the ram set because of the time factor. I did buy the low profile screws for the studs. What do you use to seal the chalk line? That's a real pearl. Do you screw the back part of the stud to the track, and if so what tricks do you have? Thanks.
To seal the line on the floor, any ordinary quick dry clear spray sealer in a can. Clear spray paint. I'm telling you, those lines have to be right on. Strike it so you can reference every jog and nook and cranny.
I don't screw the backside screw unless it's something odd that makes it smart to do. I will slip in reinforced channel in the stud holes bout 1/2 way up. That stiffens the floppiness of a lt ga mtl stud. On intersecting walls I use a system learned framing commercial. It might be too hard to explain, but you hold the wall 5/8's short of the one it runs into. Pass the sheetrock through the gap and screw the intersecting wall stud through that sheetrock into a backing stud. Ties the walls together not using a traditional partition stud arrangement. Were you able to follow that?
If you like metal for the walls, you'll love what you can do with it to soffit around all sorts of basement crappola. Best of luck.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,
We call that intersecting "T" method a "slap stud". The metal framers leave it loose until the drywall is in and then it is slapped against the drywall and screwed in place.
As for the original poster's question about screwing the back sides of the studs, I can offer a few hints. One is to pre-drill or punch [Whitney punch] a small hole in the top and bottom of the stud. This way the screw won't skid all over the place. Use a longer type of phillips bit for a straighter angle. Also Milwaukee makes a nifty right angle attachment [actually about 70º] [$ = ~$20] for your Phillip's bits. I prefer to see all four corners of the studs firmly attached.
~Peter
Thanks Calvin. I will give it a try as it makes sense. One thing though, and this might just be nitpicking. On one of the threads someone mentioned that over time with exposure to moisture/humidity, they saw or thought that sheetrock could decompose. If that is the case a product like dura rock or something similar may be a substitute. It is more pricey than scrap dw though. Another thing is I would refer you to Georgia pacific website http://www.gp.com and under search type in metal studs. This is a handy two page primer on installing studs. What might interest you is the instructions for heavy fixture and cabinet backing. What they show is taking a track and placing it horizontally at a level where you may hang cabinets, shelves, etc. If you have an idea that in the future something may be attached to the wall this would be ideal. I think that is would stiffen the wall and then you wouldn't need to put in a reinforced channel. Now I understand that it would add time to a job and you wouldn't do it all of the time, but I am considering this.
I prefer wood blocking for hanging any weight from. If none available, I'll use "the toggler" anchor from Hilti and attach through a hole in the metal stud. Get ready wolf, you're gonna have more fun than one man can have.
Those clamps cork speaks of, vise grip makes 'em. We'd call them bad-a$$ clamps. When not in use and hanging from your belt and clanging when you walk makes you look like a bad ####.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Wolfdog,
Didn't read but these four posts on this thread.
Use the ramset with green loads. If you have yellow and they are "popping" the concrete then just hold muzzle down, finger OFF the trigger with shot and pin in place, and then tamp the muzzle onto the concrete one or two times and this will reduce the power of the charge. Sounds funky but as someone who has built steel stud walls for years I'm telling you it works good. Use 3/4 inch pins.
Also when you are fastening (screwing) the studs, track, kickers, whatever, go ahead and use small or apox. 3" C-clamps. Get the material where you want it, fasten the C-clamp and then screw away. If'n you don't the studs are going to want to walk on you and also especially with light gage material the screw will want to zip right through the first piece of metal and them just push on the second piece of metal. Get at least two pair of these clamps and the job will be quicker, more accurate, and a WHOLE lot easier.
If using 25ga. metal use sharp point screws. 20ga. or heavier use self tapping drill point screw.
To tie you're corners together use the technique described above, using slap studs. Frame all four walls and then drywall the first one. Have a "nailer" on the far ends of this wall to catch and hold the drywall. On the next wall you're going to drywall, have it all framed in on 16 or 24 centers, and then just add a stud right up against the drywall you have just hung. Just cut the stud about a 1/2 less than full height of the vertical height of the wall, slide the little pig into the top and bottom tracks, slide it over the the piece of drywall, and slap it up to the drywall. Toenail about every 1 1/2 feet on the inside of the stud to the sheetrocked stud, and "viola", you'll have a nice tight corner.
Steel framing is easy, just a few different types of techniques as compare to stick building.
Have at it!!
Cork in Chicago.
I am having a hard time following what you with the slap studs. After cutting the stud a little less than half and attaching the two pieces to teh track, I don't follow what you mean by putting the pieces over the shhetrock. Could you elaborate a little. Thanks. Wolffdog
I'm passing through here again and see your question. If cork doesn't mind maybe I can show you a crappy pic and explain what he meant. Don't cut the stud in half, cut it a half inch short of distance from floor to ceiling track. Slip it in and screw through that stud.......through the drywall you already have on the previous wall and into a backer stud in that wall. In the pic, you have run your sheetrock on the wall on the left. You've passed it through the corner (there's a 5/8's gap between the left wall and the right - or you put in the stud as cork mentions). Now you screw through that stud (the one on the right intersecting wall) through the drywall and into that backer stud. Now the corner is tied together. Start at the bottom or top and continue as the backer stud will want to flop around. Clear as mud.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Edited 7/14/2003 3:36:10 PM ET by calvin
The slap stud is placed over the rock, one wall is rocked first the wall that intersects gets a stud that screws to the sheetrock either thru the rock on the opposite side into the stud or with buglehead coarse screws thru the stud into rock. It is called a slap stud because you place between tracks and slap it against perpendicular wall. Fasten stud top and bottom both sides screw and you have tied walls together.
One other thing, you can pop rivet the studs if you like instead of screwing. A lot slower but protrudes less than washer head panheads. If you are putting in baseboard afterwards you can screw 1/2" plywood for sub base then rock on top of this. Make sure the plywood is 1/2" less in width than width of baseboard. Countersink holes in plywood or they might protrude. I skip the sub base that I described, I nail directly into the metal stud with a 15 gauge nailer and a spot of adhesive every so often.
Everything Cal said....also I use a "crimping tool". It crimps the studs to the tracks. some say you don't need to use screws at all after using the crimping tool. I do though..I just screw the fronts but crimp all sides anyway. The self tapping screws are what I use. MAde for metal studs.
I also add wood 2x's in the areas where I'm going to put trim. MAkes it more substantial/easier for attaching/nailing. Maybe over kill but been doing that for years.
Far as shooting the plates in with my reminton nail gun...Been doing that for years as well with no issues.
If ya wanna rip a plate out one day...no problem...A pry bar and rip around the nails..it'll come up, trust me..been there...done that.
Have fun
andy
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The first basement I finished I drilled and screwed w/ Tapcon screws all of the bottom tracks - never again. The second basement I finished I used a PAT - the way to go. The PAT is exponentially faster. I will never drill again.
I only screw studs at the front. I offset my studs from the wall 5/8" using metal channels thereby allowing moisture to penetrate the wall and move into the basement proper. But, to do this you need to make sure the HO has a air conditioning system of some sort in place. This is not an original idea - I found it in FH awhile back.
dlb
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