I have a very large framing contract coming up and am going to be purchasing some additional guns. I currently have a combination of PC stick nailers and Bostich coil nailers. I will be looking for more stick nailers but am interested in any feedback on recent models as my PC’s we’ve had for a few years. Any feedback on the newer models, likes and dislikes? I want to stick with round head, not clipped head, and it would be great if they shot the same angle as the Portercable guns. Also, does anybody buy bulk gun nails through wholesale sources? I’ve got about 180,000 sq.ft. of buildings so we’re going to be going through a ton of nails and I want to do as good on price as possible.
Thanks.
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Replies
There isn't much out there that's anywhere near the performance of the MAX. It'll flush them no matter what you drive in to, sheathing, 2x, lvl . . . comfortable, comes with the swivel on the air, just a well designed gun overall. Just a little more $ than Senco. Holding that's like having your hand in the back pocket of your favorite gal all day.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
The Max is a good gun, but I find it to be too S L O W.
Gone back to the the tried and true Hitachi NR and NV-83's. No frills, lots of production, and minimal down time. What more do you want from a framing gun? They are also the same collation as the PC frh framers and the Max nailers as well.
Hey Diesel,
NV75
-zen
That ain't no framing nailer dude! She's just a baby.
Baby with some smack and bite.
Like the animated short of the baby after the Pixar movie "The Incredibles".
lol
-zen
Good call Brian. We've found the Hitachi's shoot much faster than Max, although Max are great guns. I've "heard" about an upcoming coil nailer review where the same comments were echoed :-)
A good hammer.
Sweeeet!
Hey, how do you like that little Senco compressor? That's the lil' one, right? Will it run a framing nailer for light punch-out type work? I've been toying between one of those compressors or a Paslode cordless for punch-out. The main reason why I haven't pulled the trigger on the Paslode cordless (no pun intended) is that they use clipped head nails... and I don't. Seems I have enough nails to keep track of and stock as it is without adding another into the mix.
I have nailed 1x's to joists with it and a stud or two with it. Best suited for brad nailer and no good for stapling luan. I bought it for a third floor trim out. Probably not a good buy, just a little tooooo small.
s that they use clipped head nails pull the trigger,They will use a full head nail
Specifications
Model: Cordless Framing Nailer
Part Number: 900420
Weight: 7.4 lbs. w/battery
Height: 14 1/2 in.
Nail Range: 2" to 3 1/4" in length with .113" to .131" shank diameters.
Magazine Type: 30 degree
Nail Capacity: 1 strip up to 48 nails
Sequential Operation: 2-3 nails/second
Fuel Cell Life: 1,200 nails (approx.)
Battery Cell Life:
Per charge 4,000 nails (approx.)Not recommended for use at altitudes above 5000 feet, or in temperatures below 20oF - 7oC.
Requires Paslode Cordless Fuel #816000 Tall Fuel Cell (1.32 oz)Paslode Fasteners:
Ring Shank and Smooth, Rign Shank*
Brite, Hot Dipped Galvanize PlusPaslode RounDrive Full Head Paper Collated Nails
Paslode ProStrip Clipped Head Paper Collated NailsShank Diameters available:
.113, .120, .131edited to add this....404530
3
x
.120
Smooth
Hot Dipped Galvanized
Diamond
30 Degree Strip
RounDrive
Cordless 30 Degree Framing Nailer
404532
3
x
.120
Ring
Hot Dipped Galvanized
Diamond
30 Degree Strip
RounDrive
Cordless 30 Degree Framing Nailer
650236
3
x
.120
Smooth
Brite
Diamond
30 Degree Strip
RounDrive
Cordless 30 Degree Framing Nailer
Edited 10/9/2005 7:47 am ET by butch
I'll sell you, or trade you my paslode framer. I never use it, and I'm in the market for a coiled framing nailer.
Seriously, I've shot less than 100 nails through my paslode. I had an older one that I used a lot more often. It grew feet, I eventually replaced it, but don't frame much anymore.
I'm going to shoot you an email.
tag your it.
We love Paslode stick nailers, I have one that is 11 years old, I have never done anything to it. Great nose for toe-nailing
Just read a small clip about larger diameter heads and larger ring shanks. Apparently this had a significant impact on hold down force in hurricane force winds. I can't remember which guns would accept these larger nails (Bostitch, Senco, Max?). Ask rep at author. service center. You might be able to get a little extra dough from the owner to offset the cost of the nails and guns if you sell him on the hold down force/wind rating.
Good luck sounds like steady work for while.
That's the new Bostitch nails. Larger head for increased holding power, supposedly. They will fit most standard plastic-collated 21 degree strip nailers. I have the Bostitch N88RH-2MCN which is supposed to take those nails. I like my Bostitch, but I'd give a close look to Hitachi if I had to get another gun.
JonE,
I guess that's my take on it too. I have a number of Bostich which I bought because of it's power and light weight.. much more impact than you really need except when you have to nail 3 1/2 16 P into Ash and flush em the first time because the follow up with a hammer will just bend them over.
The Hitachi seems to be the choice of the pros around here.. Now I should define pros.. Since I meet from 6 to 30 framing contractors a day.
There are those who take the freebe guns given when they buy the pallet of nails and those who buy the gun they fix for free and give you a replacement while you're is being repaired.
Both to me are foolish!
The real money makers. The guys who frame more houses per year than then most, the guys who complete framing a 2500 sq.ft. house in less than 4 days with a crew of three. They seem to own either the Hitachi's or Paslodes..
Senco's days have come and gone and while many framers made a lot of money with them they no longer compete.. Somebody bragged to me about fixing a gun on the tailgate of his truck.. well they really aren't rocket science.. if you've got a kit you should be able to fix it quickly.. But why do you have a kit with you? Do they break that often? I'm not saying that nail guns never wear out and need an overhaul, I'm saying that the length between overhauls seems lowest with Hitachi's
Frenchy,
Any of those "pro" framers looking for a little winter work? These jobs are in the Syracuse, NY area and we're still looking for more manpower. Pay will be very good as the main job is a prevailing rate project, around $30 hr.
Back to the framing nailers, anyone know anything about either the Rigid stick nailer or Makita coil framer. I've had pretty good uck with Rigid's new cordless drill line, and like their lifetime wear and tear warranty. Makita's coil nailer sure looks good in reviews I've read. I like the coil nailers for floor and roof sheathing work, less down time loading nails constantly.
Bish,
HAVE ALL THE WORK THEY CAN HANDLE AROUND HERE. (OOPS SORRY CAPS LOCK),
bish i bought the makita coil nailer last spring and lone it we do a little bit of eveery thing and had a fair bit of framing and then a sidding job that gun is great it is as comfortable as my 15 ga hitachi my only complaint is coils take up more room in the truck than sticks
noah
Ex,
I just got a new makita coil gun this week and so far am impressed. Got more power than any other gun I've got I think. I'm leaning towards getting more. I do have a dealer/repair place nearby also.
I was told by the Bostitch rep that N88RH-2MCN cannot be converted to bump nail.
Makes it too slow for me. Also no rafter hook from the factory. They said it was an insurance issue.
Hud
Edited 9/24/2005 10:44 am ET by fixithud
Yeah - its' biggest shortcoming is no bump fire. However, it's a good lightweight gun for applications where you need careful aim, like toenailing and interior partition work. The hanger bit doesn't bother me - I use a belt hanger or just put it down on something. I'm not a pro framer by any means, so the supposed shortcomings of this nailer aren't an issue.
We sheathed 1600 square foot floor deck with this gun, only me using it, and it only took a day. I found that firing too fast caused me to miss the joists occasionally.
Bostitch N88RH, Hitachi NR90AC3, Makita AN922, and any other 22° stick nailer that shoots a full 16d, 3+ x .162" nail will shoot the Bostitch Sheather Plus nails.
We use them on smaller shearwalls like the walls on either side of the garage door. They are great nails.
My crew did a stick nailer review for JLC a year ago and our favorites as the time were the Hitachi NR83A2 and the Max SuperFramer. If I were to choose today, I would pick the Hitachi because it shoots more quickly and aftermarket hangers are easier to find. They last forever. The Max is a great reliable gun. It's like driving a Mercedes compared to a Ford when you compare the Max to everything but the Hitachi. It is a very refined feeling gun. I don't know how else to describe it. It has a cool feature on the nosepiece that lets you open the nosepiece when the gun jams.
I strongly suggest ignoring stick nailers and trying a framing coil nailer or two. We have switched over to coil exclusively except for some nailing that requires double hot dipped gavl. nails and the sheather plus nails. Here is a pic of the Hitachi with the Dead On Tools belt hook. http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112802273.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7273486/112802271.jpg
We've used all the framing coil guns out there and compared them, and the Hitachi gun is the best, although the Makita is a great gun with a belt hook built in, and the Max is a great gun.
We'll be buying 2 more Hitachi NV83A2 guns in about 2 months. The weight is not an issue, and neither is the cost of coil nails. Trust me, when you get used to have 225 10d nails in the coil, you won't go back to 50 in a stick gun.
Tim,
Good point about nail capacity. I didn't realize that coil nailers held so many nails. I do remodeling work and use a Paslode Framer for the bulk of my work and a Paslode cordless for real small jobs. I stuck with Paslode just so I wouldn't have to purchase several different kinds of nails. Although I will same the Paslode with the bump trigger is pretty fast for putting down roof sheathing but, I will defer other forum readers to your experience.
Clark
Ive used hitachis in cold weather and they were all crap. dont know what model it was but they couldnt hold a candle to our sencos and paslodes. I like the paslode powermaster plus which takes 30 deg. nails. Paslode makes round head nails to fit this gun too.
AlanRoberson,
Hmmm I live in Minnesota,, you know the state that is usually the coldest in the nation and Hitachi is the prefered gun here.. I do know a few people who've had just the problem you mentioned but I got them to drain their tank (air tank) of the water that it gets and they stopped having troubles.
By the way I sell Forklifts and not nail guns so I don't have any interest in what you buy.. If Senco was the gun to own I'd own Senco's but only the old timers still cling to them. As for Paslodes, well with their gun repair policy I can understand why you'd use them. Some dealers also give free guns with a pallet of nails. Is that why you have them?
I also like Paslodes propane fired nail guns for the small jobs when you don't want to drag out a hose. (but boy are they finacki! just a little off and they misfire more than they fire.. good thing they have a decent repair policy here)
I have a Senco SN65 and a Hitachi NR83A2 and have a slight preference for the Senco. It's lighter and a little easier to use, so I put 8d in it and toenail or shoot off sheeting. The Hitachi is also a good gun and I run 16d in it. Usually I set up both with a splitter on my main hose and a pair of 25 foot Flexeels.
I have a 600 series Senco that is about as basic as a nailer gets, but it runs circles around the new Bostich (no bump fire) and some of the heavy duty guns that have plenty of power and last forever, but are heavy and slow to get into position. It could use a bit more power for toenailing all the doug fir framing that is so popular here in Idaho, but it was great for the hem/fir that was more predominant building in Wyoming.
The gun's toothed safety comes as a cheap stamping with points that are slightly rounded so 5 minutes with a file makes a world of difference when angled shots are required. The depth adjustment requires loosening a nut so it's painfully slow so I just drop the pressure by 20 lbs for 8s. The foam grip is a joke, but it does feel nice the first week (right before it starts wearing through).
It only has 20,000 nails through it in two years so it's not even needing a simple rebuild, but there are surely more durable guns (Senco and others) for those who put 100s of thousands of nails through their guns.
For those who do have this gun a good quality rafter hook is only $12 at HD buy using a hook for the skill 77 saw. The hole spacing is very close and only one hole will need to be elongated slightly and two new longer 8-32 x 1-1/4 (memory?) bolts used. Simply hold the hook next to the gun and eyeball the profile needed, cut a little with a hacksaw and spend 5 minutes with a grinder. The hook folds flat and opens just like it was made for the gun.
For a production gun others surely make more sense, but for a fast and inexpensive gun for guys who aren't real hard on equipment it seems to work.
Tim,What's the model number of the Hitachi coil nailer you like? Does it shoot 3-3 1/4" nails? I asked about it at my tool supplier today, and they don't carry it, so I couldn't get any of that info. Also, do you have any opinions on the 83 Hitachi vs. the newer, lighter model (N90 I think)?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
The Hitachi coil nailer is the NV83A2. Same number as the stick nailer, just change the R to a V for the coil framer. I believe the sticker says it will shoot up to a 3 1/4" nail.
I haven't tried the new lighter model. I was under the impression that it was a clipped headed nailer. Or the 33°-34° magazine. Hitachi has just been really reliable for us. Although the Makita framing coil nailer is a solid choice too, I just have no real world experience with the reliablility. That new Makita recip saw though looks really tempting.
thanks for info on the coil nailer. Yes, the lighter (90) is a clipped head model, which is no problem in my area. I am thinking about a second framing gun, and I'm drawn to the coil nailer because of your high marks. On this model, can you switch back and forth between the bump and sequential -- as you can with the 90?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
The trigger on this gun is the same as the Hitachi has always been. Bounce fire. There isn't an option for sequential that only lets you nail one at a time.
Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion about Hitachi's coil gun that can shoot either framing or siding nails (NV 75AG)?Here's the Amazon description:http://tinyurl.com/blogpI am in the market for a second framing gun, and it would be nice to have one that could also handle siding. Usually, dual purpose machines never handle each task as well as a dedicated tool, and I wonder if this is the case here too.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
We own that 75AG with a dead on tools belt hook. It's a nice gun and shoots 10d nails pretty well, although you can't shoot as quickly as the framing nailer, NV83A2. We bought the 75 after we sent the Max High pressure system back because the 75 was light and small.
After using it for about 10 months the cap blew off the back. We had it repaired, but I think using it to frame is a little hard on it, although if it's only occasional framing it's probably ok. It works great as a siding gun. We haven't been doing much siding the last year or so, but we did one in August and it worked really well.
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215122/52431572.jpg
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215122/52431557.jpg
Edited 10/22/2005 10:28 am ET by Timuhler
Thanks for info. I appreciate your help in sorting through all this. From your comments, it looks like this gun would be just right for what I need, since it would be used only as a supplemental framer. I'm going to have to stock up on thowse tool hooks you mention. I have tried several others, and they just don't cut it.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I'm glad I could help. Those belt hooks are a life saver, the only problem is that now that I'm used to them, if I use a gun without one, I tend to drop it :-)
Where do you buy those hooks? Do you have a link?
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Renohardware.net
http://www.renohardware.net/yzcart/yzcart.php?page=face.php3&NAV=search&PAGE=search&sid=VW8K1RX0DG3HLBS&manufacture=Dead%2BOn%2BTools&image.x=31&image.y=1
Get a BigFoot layout stick too. It really speeds up layout.
I also found out from Bigfoot that you can take the 10" adapter kit off the Skil and put it on the Bosch without needing any extra parts. Our old mag is dieing from running a 10" blade, so we are going to put it on the Bosch
Edited 10/23/2005 11:29 am ET by Timuhler
Thanks for the link. I am going to order up 2-3 of the hooks, which I assume can be made to fit any saw, nail gun, etc.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Hitachi
I had to chime in on this one. I love my Duo-Fast C350's.I have six of them from 10 to 2 years old. They rarely break,(o-rings every 2-3 years,broken driver if it gets cold enough)and my salesman who delivers my nails to the job fixes it while I wait.They have a 3 1/2 inch hook so you can hang them on top plate, I can get concrete nails for them, and you can use the back end as a hammer.Wire the safeties back and go go go.
Just wanted to put my $.02 in here. For twenty years I have been building in the summer and selling construction supplies in the winter. (as per "the boss") I have to say that out of the 6 or 7 different brands I have sold (and I mean hundreds of guns) I have absolutly had the least problems with Hitachi. They simply work. You can find this-or-that gun that has a feature that might be better than the NR83 (I have a Bostitch that locates for joist-hangers,cool) but for over-all day-after-day getting it done, they just can't be beat. I have only had one, thats right, one Hitachi ever returned by a customer. the rep wasn't even sure what to do with it until he called back to his own company. I started out using Senco and was very pleased with them until we had to switch over to round-heads (earthquake country) I never felt comfortable with the new RH models and after I bought a Hitachi I was hooked. It was a bit of a pain getting attachments to shear-nail but now that isn't a problem.
So..yeah, I recommend Hitachi.
Terence
Thanks to everyone for all the opinions and ideas. I'm leaning towards a combination of a few stick guns{ round head}, and some more coil nailers. Some of my guys still prefer the balance of the stick guns over coil for stud framing, but I like coil guns for all sheathing work at least. I'm narrowed down to Hitachi and Makita at this point, but still wondering if anyone's tried one of the new Rigid stick guns yet? Looks well built, great warranty, good feel, but no track record.
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/4345c50900154e2727177f0000010520/Product/View/0510tool
You've got mail :-)
Tim,Thanks for pointing out your article, if I got around to reading my mail when it comes I would have seen it in the Oct. issue. I'm going to check it out a little further as to how warranty is handled. There's plenty of HD's in the area, but I'm not sure about where service would be. Hitachi does have a local place, but the dealer is a touch expensive and not the fastest sometimes either.
Bish, I can't speak for the Ridgid framers, but we just got a roofer that works even better than our Bostitch. Quality (fit & finish) are as good as any other brand.Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
Jason, thanks for info. As I said, I think I'll look into them a little further, maybe pick up one gun and try it on current job.
Having used the Senco, PC, Paslode, and Hitatchi there is only one that I use now. Hitatchi
It outlasts and out performs all the others in my experience.
hitachi....tyke
Just another day in paradise
Just put the air to a new Hitachi NR90AD yesterday- I like it. Very light, well balanced, and comfortable .......... important for these arthritic old paws of mine. Seems to have plenty of cajones. It's Darth Vader looks take some getting used to but make it hard to misplace, lol. Early versions of this gun had somes issues but have been rectified according to a factory rep I've talked to. I don't believe the new NR90AD is as rugged as the 83's ..............time will tell.
Edited 9/28/2005 8:06 am ET by jc21
If you have lots of nailing ahead of you why wouldn't you get a few coil nailers reload 50 times a day instead of 250? Hitachi makes a really nice one
Hitachi...made by orientals....they are as reliable as Hondas and Toyotas.