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FHB will be doing a framing nailer shoot-out this spring/summer and I’m wondering what information would be useful for you to know and help us evaluate the contenders.
FHB is having Rick Arnold and me use and abuse as many as we ask for. Hopefully sometime next fall or early winter they’ll get around to printing our findings. The last time we tested nailers was issue #105 Oct/Nov 1996. Since then, most of the major manufacturers have done complete overhauls of their tools, some still have the same basic models, others are up and coming, and some are no longer with us.
What features do you think would be most important for us to evaluate framing nailers on? (nail size/range/collation angle/head, balance, weight, magazine capacity, jamb clearing features, built-in filters, street price, color??????)
Should we limit our review to the big names (Hitachi, Senco, Paslode, Bostich…) or should we include nailers that aren’t so well known (Fasco, Max, Unicatch, Grex, ISM/Atro, Jamerco…. )?
How important is the ability of a nailer to drive 3 1/2″ .162 (full round head common) nails?
How about a nailer’s ability to sink spikes into LVLs?
Let me know what the best aspects of your favorite nailer are and its faults; what you’d improve and what you’d keep the same.
I can’t believe how many companies are making and / or selling nailers; so far we’ve uncovered 23 companies. And when you count all the different models each company has in their arsenal, the total tool count approaches 100.
It’s a little unrealistic to include all 100 of them in the review, so we’re whittling down the list that will actually get tested.
Some are definitely Pro models and others seem more for weekend warriors. we’d like to include information on both types because FHB has readers of all sorts.
Your input will help us make the survey a little more useful, Thanks.
Mike Guertin
Replies
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Mike, 3+1/4" clipped head nails are legal here in Western Washington, and most framers use 3" for framing. As long as they meet that criteria, the next most important things for me are availability of nails and parts, life expectancy, and maybe most importantly - comfort, or balance. Even just for part time use, if a tool doesn't feel right, it can make for a long day at work.
And, um, I notice in your list of pro quality tools you mention Hitachi before Senco. I'm assuming that's an arbitrary list, because everyone knows there's Senco, and then there's several other manufacturers. You don't happen to drive a F*rd, do you?
*I'm going to agree with Jim. Ability to drive is number 1. Availability of nails, service, etc. is number 2, comfort is number 3, and everything else is last place. And I also agree about the F*rd. Driving one, it must be very difficult to spend so much time pulling Chevy's and Dodges out of ditches, helping them haul big loads, calling tow trucks for them. Yep. Better stay away from those F*rds. I guess all those ignorant people who have made the Ford F150 the best selling VEHICLE in the world are really feeling bad right about now... LOL
*MikeMaybe you could take a look at the coil framers. I'm thinking of going this way next gun purchase. I know you already use them so that may be worth mentioning in the shoot-out.Ability to nail LVL's very important.Color is most important. Can't be cool with an all gray tool. They gotta have some orange on them to be of any use.Balance, wweight reliability, availibiltiityt (whatever) of prompt service, cost of replacement parts.Jim
*Fall resistence, how high they bounce off subfloors from 8', 9',,17',19' and 25', how easy and available hooks are to install on them, how far you can throw them(wind resistence) How far the nail shoots when you pull the safety back and go semi-auto at the sales weiner from the lumber yard as he steps out of his SUV, how much mud can be packed into the nose before it quits firing,how many days can you leave it in a damp cold back of a truck before it locks up....did I leave anything out?????
*Blodgett, There you go again about Fords.... Sam
*Fatigue factor. Some guns make your arm ache after 1/2 hour, others you don't need to put down until your break. Never analyzed why (weight, vibration, kickback, balance ?), but it happens. PS, Ford beats Chev and Ford beats GMC; but, Chev + GMC easily tops Ford (and Chev + GMC + Isuzu = WOW).
*Since we're talking framing nailers here - Availability of galvanized nailsavailability of aftermarket nails (and how well they work in the gun)Airless models (Paslode, etc...)Reliabilty, frequency of jamming, ease of maintenance, etc...CostJames
*Ease of depth adjustmentsAbility to shoot other brand and knockoff nails.Price of nails per 1000Ease of rebuilding on siteCollation, i.e. wire, plastic, paper, and how far do the chunks flyDriver size and shape
*I think shock resistance is important. Noise, too. BTW, when I bought the Senco 325 a few years ago, the salesman was pushing that 1996 review at me insisting I read it through. Ron
*Why would fhb do a tool review and look for something other then the best models? Leave the Harry homeowner stuff for The Family Handyman.As far as I'm concerned just do a review of the Hitachi NR83A vs. NR83AA. Maybe throw in their coil nailer too.
*There is a new study out which correlates f*rd owners voting for R.Reagan back in the 80's.
*Thanks Jim,You may recollect from our first review that we aren't fans of Hitachi - it was an arbitrary list. They pulled thier ads in FHB after our article came out. We're going to give them a fairer shot this time.My favorite nailer is SN65C. Rick and I fight over it. It's good to know you can get away w/ clip heads in West WA. Wonder how long more if your ground keeps shaking....mike
*Keith,After the FHB article, we'll do one for JLC or TOT and test the tools for all of the most important features. I can attest that old N80 Bostitch nailers can't take a fall of more than 20 feet onto rocks. 10 ft they can handle but I have 2 with cracked heads. I tried bondo but it only lasted a week before starting to hiss.Thanks,mike
*Phill,We tried to quantify just the comfort you're suggesting before but we couldn't agree on which one we could use all day. It depended on if we were bouncing off floor sheathing or upright walls. Have you noticed any models that feel best after 6 hours?Mike
*Tommy,We don't descriminate here at FHB. I actually own some knockoff 'homeowner' tools. Couldn't pass up the price. Reliant (from Woodworkers Warehouse - no longer available), DeVilbiss (also off market), Campbell Hausfeld and a few others. These tools, which at the time were 30 to 50% cheaper than Bostitch and 75% cheaper than Hitachi, are still going and I mistreat them in a bad way. I can get parts just about anywhere - they're like VW beatles pre '84 - generic. I'm surprized they keep going. So I ask myself, why not review them. Several remodeler friends of mine who only occasionally frame out big additions can use a generic / DIY tool and have it for 10+ years without trouble.I know, it's all about style, preception and price...Thanks,Mike
*Most popular president....most popular truck...I believe it, Wes
*Just don't do it! The comparison, I mean. I already own Pasilode and just bought the Bostich n88ww for the really tough stuff. Now if you test and find something better then I'll have to admit I was wrong or else tell you guys that you were wrong and cancell my subscription in a huff. (and I like your magazine way too much to want to do that) Seriously cost of nails and duribility are the two things I look for. repair kits/service is a distant third. But for the duribility numbers you need long time owners input perhaps you could send out a questionaire?
*Hi Mike-Just bought two more MAX 890CB's after buying initial gun to test. Beats everything else, owned 'em all.This gun is LIGHTER, has a safety switch to engage when passing it around or sending it aloft via the airline which prevents accidental discharge. Loads and readjusts easily for different size nails with spring loaded coil table which twists and lands into detentes. Has self-cleaning air filter at air chuck, every time you disconnect airline, debris is spit out the coupling automatically. Depth adjuster is accessible and easy to use. Uses most popular nails, same as Bostitch coil framers.Was told first Bostitch guns were designed and built by MAX before they started their own production line.Bought first one by chance, was looking to buy their siding gun for shooting clapboard. Salesman referred me instead to the 890CB, though he carries both models. Advised me this gun would also shoot 6d siding nails, best gun I've owned, both smooth and versatile. Re: LVL's, it does good, but still lets some pins hang a little high to be driven in by hand like all the other sttandard framers. Bring out the animal Bostitch for the beams, but the MAX is lighter and sweeter for everything else.How about mentioning gun oils, too??? Switched over to a new synthetic last summer called CAT OIL. They sell an 8oz. bottle for $6. with dispenser tip, or a quart for $19. Used it for a frame during the worst of this past winter, kept the guns running smoothly, same as in summer. They bill this stuff as making your guns run smoother within minutes, it works. Cut way down on misfires, especially in winter. Guns run a lot better, including finish and flooring types. Beats putting antifreeze in guns like some guys do during cold, which causes damage.
*Mr. Bond,Thanks for your input. I've fondled the Max and await the test. I think it will be a great tool and your comments reinforce my first impression.Yes Max built Bostitch's nailers for quite a while. Japanese company (like Hitachi, Makita). I wondered about Cat oil - glad to hear it's worth the $. I'm proposing an article on how to care and repair your own pneumatic tools and think a lubricant survey would be great to include.Thanks much,Mike
*I know what you mean Frenchy. I bought a sidewinder circ saw recently and just found out that John Spier just wrapped up a survey of sidewinders for FHB (due out soon). He trashed the one I have. I think you're fine with your choices. Your right, durability is important and difficult to test en-masse. By the time we've tested durability, all the models would be antiques.Thanks,Mike
*Mike,Speed, speed, speed. That is an issue that is probably off-limits for a magazine due to potential liability, but it is important when the 4400sq ft subfloor needs shot, or you're racing down plates nailing studs. You may not personally prefer Hitachi, but I have not been able to find anyone who, after a side by side comparison, doesn't agree that the Senco is so-slow. I cannot believe the recovery time between shots with the Senco, I can actually outrun the gun, whereas that is not possible with the Hitachi.I have a question, why doesn't FHB include feedback from independent tool repair shops from across the country in their reviews? A tool may be superior to others in many areas, but if it breaks down too frequently, it isn't profitable (especially when you are 25 miles from the store). BTW, my tool repair guy (here in NW Montana) says for reliablity, Sencos are in for repair FAR more than Hitachi. Which is funny since the majority use Hitachis.Anyhow, please add repair data to your evaluation, otherwise, I think any eval is incomplete at best, or inaccurate at worst. Al SteinerPS Quick story. I was working in Billings on a commercial job, and they had purchased 3 new Senco 65s at the start of the job. We were nailing off the subfloor for the second story (22,000 sq ft of sheeting) and ALL THREE SENCOS BROKE DOWN WITHIN TWO DAYS OF EACH OTHER, after about a month of use. And it took the authorized repair shop 3 tries to fix them (after the 2d failed attempt the super showed me that, properly motivated, a man can throw a nailgun farther than a dicus). On the 3d try the fix worked and there were no more problems, but it was on that subfloor that I discovered that Sencos can be outrun by the operator.
*I'm afraid to ask but does anyone use a Porter Cable or does everyone assume that they can't hang? They just released three new models a FR350MAG, COIL350, and COIL250. Prices are always right and parts and service are eadily found.Tony
*Thanks Al,It would be great to get repair records from tool shops to use as a qaualifier. But trying to get them to respond is another matter. All the tool shops around here have monkeys working in them (hard to find good help in tool repair shops too I guess - not much of a career choice). Any information we used would be anecdotal and not very accurate. I agree, I'd like to know how tools stack up repairwise. My experience has been different than yours. I own Hitachi and Senco. I spend far more time fiddling with the Hitachis than the Sencos. Only trouble is when any of the Sencos go - it's usually serious internal damage. The Hitachi troubles are in the nail advancing mechanizms (I use mostly coilers) and trigger air leaks. It will be interesting to see how the speed of new nailers compare. As I understand it, in order to lighten up the redesigned machines, the engineers had to speed up the piston (and hence driver). I suspect this speeds cycling and increases output. I like coilers mainly because I get 250 nails rather than 60 to 75 nails on a reload. That along speeds things up. The cycling is important.Framing nailers are asked to do a lot. Driving .162 FRH 16d spikes into LVLs and flush set 6d sheathing nails at high speed. That's what makes a comprehensive review difficult also. I suspect in the end, everyone will be left wanting more than we'll have space for.MikePS Maybe the roof-top nailer toss would be a good test to try include.
*I plan to check them out so we'll see.
*Mike, Thanks for your gracious reply."Any information would be anecdotal."I agree (to some extent), but SO ARE THE REVIEWS. Your point about comprehensive reviews being difficult is right on, and I probably expect too much from them anyhow, but flawed or not, repair, servicability, and durability feedback are necessary bits of info for a total picture.Hitachi's strip nailers ALSO have problems mainly with nail advancement. BUT, they seem to have problems with far less frequency than other brands, in my limited experience.I am going to try and start a thread on including maintenence and repair data in FHB reviews. Who knows, I may find out that I am one of a very few who want it.God bless,Al SteinerPS Aren't carpenters hard to please? (read: FINICKY)
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FHB will be doing a framing nailer shoot-out this spring/summer and I'm wondering what information would be useful for you to know and help us evaluate the contenders.
FHB is having Rick Arnold and me use and abuse as many as we ask for. Hopefully sometime next fall or early winter they'll get around to printing our findings. The last time we tested nailers was issue #105 Oct/Nov 1996. Since then, most of the major manufacturers have done complete overhauls of their tools, some still have the same basic models, others are up and coming, and some are no longer with us.
What features do you think would be most important for us to evaluate framing nailers on? (nail size/range/collation angle/head, balance, weight, magazine capacity, jamb clearing features, built-in filters, street price, color??????)
Should we limit our review to the big names (Hitachi, Senco, Paslode, Bostich...) or should we include nailers that aren't so well known (Fasco, Max, Unicatch, Grex, ISM/Atro, Jamerco.... )?
How important is the ability of a nailer to drive 3 1/2" .162 (full round head common) nails?
How about a nailer's ability to sink spikes into LVLs?
Let me know what the best aspects of your favorite nailer are and its faults; what you'd improve and what you'd keep the same.
I can't believe how many companies are making and / or selling nailers; so far we've uncovered 23 companies. And when you count all the different models each company has in their arsenal, the total tool count approaches 100.
It's a little unrealistic to include all 100 of them in the review, so we're whittling down the list that will actually get tested.
Some are definitely Pro models and others seem more for weekend warriors. we'd like to include information on both types because FHB has readers of all sorts.
Your input will help us make the survey a little more useful, Thanks.
Mike Guertin